Happy Camper
Expert Member
Amen brother !
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E-tolling to start in February
- Thread starter rpm
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Amen brother !
Mila
Honorary Master
Never Ever! Screw them.
Mila
Honorary Master
+10
LazyLion
King of de Jungle
I think a few months of non-payment will cause such a backlog for SANRAL that they will have to relent.
Some of us might get fined or end up in court. But in any war there are casualties.
I'm willing to do my part, are you?
We need to create an FAQ though on the procedures involved in rejecting the billing.
E.g...
1) Don't buy and etag and don't pay for anything.
2) Avoid the toll gantries as much as possible.
3) If you do receive an invoice in the mail, log a dispute or do something else to delay it... eg. Write a letter citing financial difficulty.
4) If they send letters of demand ignore them until they send a lawyer's letter or a summons.
5) At that point you can either get legal counsel or decide to fight it yourself in court. (you can also try legal aid)
6) If you are summonsed, you should go to court, but have your arguments ready.
7) Tell the judge you have been driving these roads for twenty years and you were never consulted about the new tolling system.
8) Tell him that the public participation process was flawed and biased. Basically it was rammed through.
9) Tell him you already paid tax on those roads through fuel tax and PAYE tax.
10) Tell him there is no viable public transport alternative (there are no buses in your area, or not enough buses or taxis for everybody, or they are unsafe or unreliable, etc.)
11) Tell him there is no major alternative route to take as SANRAL has tolled ALL the highways in Gauteng and the back roads are not designed to carry such a load.
12) Tell him that the fees are excessive and you really cannot afford them. Bring a budget with to show him.
13) Tell him that the fee collection system is subject to abuse.
14) Tell him that the taxi and bus exemption is unfair and amounts to a form of discrimination.
15) etc. etc.
Be ready for the fact that if he rules against you, you will be liable for the fees, plus interest and possible legal costs (although you can dispute those due to financial difficulty), but you will have done your part in clogging up the system. The process to get you into court can take up to a year. So SANRAL will be WAY, WAY behind on following up on everybody.
Some of us might get fined or end up in court. But in any war there are casualties.
I'm willing to do my part, are you?
We need to create an FAQ though on the procedures involved in rejecting the billing.
E.g...
1) Don't buy and etag and don't pay for anything.
2) Avoid the toll gantries as much as possible.
3) If you do receive an invoice in the mail, log a dispute or do something else to delay it... eg. Write a letter citing financial difficulty.
4) If they send letters of demand ignore them until they send a lawyer's letter or a summons.
5) At that point you can either get legal counsel or decide to fight it yourself in court. (you can also try legal aid)
6) If you are summonsed, you should go to court, but have your arguments ready.
7) Tell the judge you have been driving these roads for twenty years and you were never consulted about the new tolling system.
8) Tell him that the public participation process was flawed and biased. Basically it was rammed through.
9) Tell him you already paid tax on those roads through fuel tax and PAYE tax.
10) Tell him there is no viable public transport alternative (there are no buses in your area, or not enough buses or taxis for everybody, or they are unsafe or unreliable, etc.)
11) Tell him there is no major alternative route to take as SANRAL has tolled ALL the highways in Gauteng and the back roads are not designed to carry such a load.
12) Tell him that the fees are excessive and you really cannot afford them. Bring a budget with to show him.
13) Tell him that the fee collection system is subject to abuse.
14) Tell him that the taxi and bus exemption is unfair and amounts to a form of discrimination.
15) etc. etc.
Be ready for the fact that if he rules against you, you will be liable for the fees, plus interest and possible legal costs (although you can dispute those due to financial difficulty), but you will have done your part in clogging up the system. The process to get you into court can take up to a year. So SANRAL will be WAY, WAY behind on following up on everybody.
Terencek
Expert Member
The surprising news I came across on the webmail site this morning that more than 200,000 people have already registered for tags, does make one wonder whether there will indeed be the promised mass civil disobedience, or if the the protests turn out to be so much hot air and in the end everyone gives in meekly....
BBSA
Honorary Master
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It is just SANRAL propaganda
that is pure Sanral kark - none of the people I know has got an e-tag or intends getting one - Reports that I have read, is that Sanral does not want to make known the number of people who have registered, obviously because it's embarrassingly low
I agree with your idea, but doubt if any cases will actually get to court - when the ***** hits the fan, the numbers will be so large that the courts won't even attempt to handle them, me thinks...
I misread the thread title as "E-trolling". Almost went "WTF!" but brains finally overcame internet brain damage and I can read now.
My wife mentioned the 200 000 etags this morning. I told her that it smells like propaganda. Still, I just hope people don't all run off and buy them anyway. I'm prepared to get up earlier in the morning to avoid the tolls via alternate routes. They can go get boned.
My wife mentioned the 200 000 etags this morning. I told her that it smells like propaganda. Still, I just hope people don't all run off and buy them anyway. I'm prepared to get up earlier in the morning to avoid the tolls via alternate routes. They can go get boned.
No, not really. My guess is that the 200 000 is mostly government vehicles to prevent them from getting bills. And I suspect that the govt departments will be able to claim back the
K
kingrob
Guest
Yup, the taxpayer will fund their vehicles.
Most of these government ministers see the state coffer as their personal wallet.
Durandal
Expert Member
As someone else here pointed out, there are kilometres of road in the Beyers Naude/Malibongwe stretch, even beyond William Nicol, I think, where the outside (slow) lane is distorting. That will have to be repaired sooner or later, and since it is impossible to fix before February, it would seem that SANRAL has no problems charging people to use roads that are substandard in sections. And even if they do then subsequently start repair work, that entire lane will have to be closed for the safety of the workers, which means that in some of the busiest stretches of road, you're going to have lovely rush hour traffic jams wherever drivers have to combine from 4 lanes to 3. And they expect drivers to pay? Yersss.....
F
Fudzy
Guest
Well if no one pays, how are they going to fix the roads? See the crux of the issue?
Durandal
Expert Member
I don't think many are disputing the need for income in order to repair/build road systems, what most of us are disputing is the method being rammed down our throats.
F
Fudzy
Guest
What is the alternative?
Durandal
Expert Member
There were several mentioned here, just read back a page or three.
R13...
Honorary Master
Apparently that's only 5% of GP's vehicles. You must expect that a % of people will comply. I actually expect more to bend over they're just waiting to see if the Feb. launch date materialises.
K
kingrob
Guest
We pay tax on fuel, car licence renewals....aren't these taxes supposed to be used to fix the roads?