Fracking in the Karoo - why it's bad

cyberbob1979

cyberbob1979

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I don't generally get upset enough to start a riot about most things, but with the Hydraulic Fracking debate for the gas in the Karoo, I decided to do a bit more research.

There is a documentary about the American Fracking system and the results thereof called "Gas Land" which is a real eye opener.

If this type of work happens in the Karoo, it would completely destroy the environment, the scenic magnificence of this ecologically sensitive area and completely destroy Eco-tourism in the area.

I've made the "Gas Land" documentary available on my Dropbox account if anyone would like to see it. It's from 2010, so a few things (hopefully) might have changed by now, but still a good watch.

The documentary is 1H41 minutes long and about 720mb in size.

Pick it up here: http://db.tt/vxt8ZSTl
 
Wow - seems you can't tell the difference between a documentary and a piece of agit-propaganda. It's riddled with blatant lies and serious misrepresentations.

I've seen Gasland. I live in the Karoo. I have nothing whatsoever to do with anyone in the resources industry. I am very interested in the truth about fracking, but seeing Gasland made me realise the first casualty in this propaganda piece is truth.

I'm on a phone now so can't say much more, but do some more research about that meretricious and lie-filled "doccie".
 
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Well, until I see evidence to the contrary, I will take the documentary as - additional information - not fact, fiction or propaganda.

I double checked on Wikipedia and according to them, a lot of what was mentioned in the documentary is true : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydraulic_fracturing

But I am not an "activist" - I just like to know where everyone stands, as the modern miss-information scheme of causing confusion and doubt is the greatest way to propagate lies as truths and mask the real threats.

Just my opinion
 
Yep, the documentary may have good intentions, but it is seriously flawed when it comes to the actual facts and science bits.
Please don't try to use that as a legitimate source of information, it's a bit embarrassing.
There is substantial evidence which shows that many of the "problems" and "results" caused by fracking may already exist even in the absence of fracking.
Just Google for it. And Google for "Criticism of Gasland"
 
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Gasland may have turned out to have some inaccuracies but I dont believe that they were intentional. It was meant to be a counter to the propaganda spewed by the likes of Shell where they paint a rosy picture of the method of extracting shale gas. Without Gasland and other material like it we might never have known how potentially disastrous fracking could be.

Thanks to public knowledge and pressure fracking has (at last look) been banned in many places and in others where it has been allowed the control over operations has at least mitigated what would surely have been a free-for-all resulting in ecological disaster after disaster.

Think....
 
cyberbob1979 said:
I don't generally get upset enough to start a riot about most things, but with the Hydraulic Fracking debate for the gas in the Karoo, I decided to do a bit more research.

There is a documentary about the American Fracking system and the results thereof called "Gas Land" which is a real eye opener.

If this type of work happens in the Karoo, it would completely destroy the environment, the scenic magnificence of this ecologically sensitive area and completely destroy Eco-tourism in the area.

I've made the "Gas Land" documentary available on my Dropbox account if anyone would like to see it. It's from 2010, so a few things (hopefully) might have changed by now, but still a good watch.

The documentary is 1H41 minutes long and about 720mb in size.

Pick it up here: http://db.tt/vxt8ZSTl
Click to expand...

There might be no damage to the karoo, there might be lots. Nothing has been properly confirmed yet.
What we do know is there is massive economic windfall. As humans cannot exist without damage to the earth, we need to balance our need for economic growth against the environmental damage caused.
And since the economic impact of this is so huge, the karoo will just have to suffer. Sorry.
Telling people they will have to die of starvation when we have the ability to extract huge wealth is not an option
 
Freshy-ZN said:
Gasland may have turned out to have some inaccuracies but I dont believe that they were intentional. It was meant to be a counter to the propaganda spewed by the likes of Shell where they paint a rosy picture of the method of extracting shale gas. Without Gasland and other material like it we might never have known how potentially disastrous fracking could be.

Thanks to public knowledge and pressure fracking has (at last look) been banned in many places and in others where it has been allowed the control over operations has at least mitigated what would surely have been a free-for-all resulting in ecological disaster after disaster.

Think....
Click to expand...

And do you think there aren't companies behind the green lobby? Or do you just like to focus on the companies supporting special interests you don't like
 
The libertarians once again on the side of evil. You go boys.
 
JStrike said:
There might be no damage to the karoo, there might be lots. Nothing has been properly confirmed yet.....
Click to expand...

In this case we should err on the side of caution, since it is such a big risk.


Telling people they will have to die of starvation when we have the ability to extract huge wealth is not an option
Click to expand...

Fracking for gas is not the only option. We should be investing in clean nuclear power for the long term
 
JStrike said:
And do you think there aren't companies behind the green lobby? Or do you just like to focus on the companies supporting special interests you don't like
Click to expand...

From an economic standpoint (talking real money) there can only be the oil industry but that is conspiracy theory territory and we dont like those in here do we?

Sure there are companies behind the green lobby but would you rather there was no counter balance?

Personally I feel that even if the negative environmental impacts were reduced to a so called acceptable level, shale gas is just a way for the same old energy giants to milk a few more decades out of fossil fuels before they are all gone and we have to do sensible things like get our energy needs from clean renewable methods and sources. Of course the energy giants would not benefit in the same ways as they have. This is the death throws of the energy corps. This is the terminally ill patient opting for chemo to get a few more years, this is the last gasp of a dying giant. I say good riddance.
 
cyberbob1979 said:
I don't generally get upset enough to start a riot about most things, but with the Hydraulic Fracking debate for the gas in the Karoo, I decided to do a bit more research.

There is a documentary about the American Fracking system and the results thereof called "Gas Land" which is a real eye opener.

If this type of work happens in the Karoo, it would completely destroy the environment, the scenic magnificence of this ecologically sensitive area and completely destroy Eco-tourism in the area.

I've made the "Gas Land" documentary available on my Dropbox account if anyone would like to see it. It's from 2010, so a few things (hopefully) might have changed by now, but still a good watch.

The documentary is 1H41 minutes long and about 720mb in size.

Pick it up here: http://db.tt/vxt8ZSTl
Click to expand...

Thanks cyberbob1979, I'll give it a watch.

Thanks to the others I'll read the critiques as well! Though I would prefer direct links that make a case against rather than just 'googling' it. Makes it sound like you've 'heard' it's a bad documentary but don't actually have any direct information on why it's bad. Saying 'just google critiques', which I've done, leads me to believe their are people for and against it, not that it's factual or not
 
Garyvdh said:
Just Google for it. And Google for "Criticism of Gasland"
Click to expand...

I googled it and found the following on the dangers of fracking from the New York Times:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/27/us/27gas.html?_r=1&hp

But the relatively new drilling method — known as high-volume horizontal hydraulic fracturing, or hydrofracking — carries significant environmental risks. It involves injecting huge amounts of water, mixed with sand and chemicals, at high pressures to break up rock formations and release the gas.

With hydrofracking, a well can produce over a million gallons of wastewater that is often laced with highly corrosive salts, carcinogens like benzene and radioactive elements like radium, all of which can occur naturally thousands of feet underground. Other carcinogenic materials can be added to the wastewater by the chemicals used in the hydrofracking itself.

While the existence of the toxic wastes has been reported, thousands of internal documents obtained by The New York Times from the Environmental Protection Agency, state regulators and drillers show that the dangers to the environment and health are greater than previously understood.

The documents reveal that the wastewater, which is sometimes hauled to sewage plants not designed to treat it and then discharged into rivers that supply drinking water, contains radioactivity at levels higher than previously known, and far higher than the level that federal regulators say is safe for these treatment plants to handle.
Click to expand...
 
joelus said:
Thanks cyberbob1979, I'll give it a watch.

Thanks to the others I'll read the critiques as well! Though I would prefer direct links that make a case against rather than just 'googling' it. Makes it sound like you've 'heard' it's a bad documentary but don't actually have any direct information on why it's bad. Saying 'just google critiques', which I've done, leads me to believe their are people for and against it, not that it's factual or not
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The Treasure the Karoo Action Group is the local organisation opposing fracking in the Karoo.
 
And more from the NYT:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/31/world/south-african-farmers-see-threat-from-fracking.html

Covering much of the roughly 800 miles between Johannesburg and Cape Town, this arid expanse — its name means “thirsty land” — sees less rain in some parts than the Mojave Desert.

Even so, Shell and several other large energy companies hope to drill thousands of natural gas wells in the region, using a new drilling technology that can require a million gallons of water or more for each well. Companies will also have to find a way to dispose of all the toxic wastewater or sludge that each well produces, since the closest landfill or industrial-waste facility that can handle the waste is hundreds of miles away.

“Around here, the rain comes on legs,” said Chris Hayward, 51, a brawny, dust-covered farmer in Beaufort West, quoting a Karoo saying about how rare and fleeting precipitation is in the area.

With his three skinny border collies crouching dutifully at his side, Mr. Hayward explained that he had to slaughter more than 600 of his 2,000 sheep last year because there was not enough water to go around.

“If our government lets these companies touch even a drop of our water,” he said, “we’re ruined.”
Click to expand...
 
Naks said:
In this case we should err on the side of caution, since it is such a big risk.

Fracking for gas is not the only option. We should be investing in clean nuclear power for the long term
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That is not the same. We would not be selling our nuclear electricity to the the USA. We would be selling our gas to the USA and elsewhere though
 
JStrike said:
They are are funded by special interest groups / corporations
Click to expand...

Which special interest groups / corporations would those be exactly?

(We know which special interest groups / corporations are funding the pro-fracking lobby after all)
 
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