Massive fight to get R7-a-day money back

Is it possible to opt-out of any so called "value added service"? I have no intention of ever using any service that bills me via my mobile phone other that for direct services from my mobile provider (i.e. calls, data and SMSs). Cell C rep can you respond to this perhaps since I am using your network?
 
I had the same problem years ago with VC. I was sent from pillar to post, until I went to the Small Claims Court. Problem solved in no time.

My bank wouldn't accept a debit order without sufficient proof that I aithorised it - what makes a SP any different?
 
Bern said:
Is it possible to opt-out of any so called "value added service"?
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Presently not with Cell C - I confirmed this in a telephone conversation with someone in the WASP department.

Allin said:
I had the same problem years ago with VC.
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Vodacom has since implemented double opt-in. It would be near impossible to get subscribed without your own knowledge.
 
ajax said:
Presently not with Cell C - I confirmed this in a telephone conversation with someone in the WASP department.
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Please lay a WASPA complaint (http://www.waspa.org.za/) so that these idiots can get fined. Send them the itemised billing proof.
I had the same thing a few years ago with MTN and lodged a complaint with WASPA, it took them months to make a ruling but eventually I was refunded and the WASP fined R30,000.
 
I'd say he hasn't been refunded in full, considering the effort taken to get it resolved - and time costs money.

Isn't there an ombudsman in place that could handle things like this? Would it be covered by the FSB or some such?
 
Fraudulent circle all covered up in T&C’s.

-> Cell C -> Mira Networks -> Kulaville

I have similar issues… but a with communications reseller as in Maverick MTN in between…

Somewhere down the line somebody went and subscribe me to numerous value added services (content) and appeared on my bill, cancelled it at a MTN branch and reappeared, repeat.

2 Years now and still at war, building my evidence log.

The logs they send you, never adds up between the parties involved, but they cover each other.
 
ajax said:
Presently not with Cell C - I confirmed this in a telephone conversation with someone in the WASP department.



Vodacom has since implemented double opt-in. It would be near impossible to get subscribed without your own knowledge.
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And any other cellular service provider?

At least with Vodacom you now have a dual opt in and its run by Vodacom partly right?
 
Yeh...I had the same issue with Vodacom and a WASP (owned by Vodacom) - they also provided fake proof that I subscribed.
 
xrapidx said:
Yeh...I had the same issue with Vodacom and a WASP (owned by Vodacom) - they also provided fake proof that I subscribed.
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Those log files are not fake - I know, I built that system when I was still working for MIRA. The user would have subscribe using WAP MSISDN forwarding and that means CellC submitted the wrong MSISDN to Mira who in turn just forwarded it their client.

Its common for the networks to push the blame to the WASP.
 
cbrunsdonza said:
Those log files are not fake - I know, I built that system when I was still working for MIRA. The user would have subscribe using WAP MSISDN forwarding and that means CellC submitted the wrong MSISDN to Mira who in turn just forwarded it their client.

Its common for the networks to push the blame to the WASP.
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I'm not talking about MIRA - and mine was SMS based

Either way, its complete BS that they can use *proof* that obviously isn't valid. It wouldn't be pleasant if a company deducted money from your bank account, and also submitted *proof* that you agreed to it.
 
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roberth said:
Please lay a WASPA complaint (http://www.waspa.org.za/) so that these idiots can get fined. Send them the itemised billing proof.
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I have, see the thread linked to in the article. The complaint is presently with adjudication but WASPA says it could take some time. I have sent all the WASP's dirty laundry regarding my case to WASPA. I also requested that their WASPA membership be terminated.

supersunbird said:
And any other cellular service provider?
At least with Vodacom you now have a dual opt in and its run by Vodacom partly right?
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Yes, Vodacom will first send you an sms when the 1st billing request is received from the WASP. If you don't reply to Vodacom's sms, no subscription will be initiated. It's probably more accurate to say you won't lose money to the WASP as you could still get subscribed due to "system errors" ;)
Again, kudo's to Vodacom.
 
Cell C's call center was completely incompetent and unhelpful and it took multiple calls to rectify the problem. No surprises there.

These WASP's are just a pain in the @ss. Who actually subscribes to these things willingly?
 
Bern said:
Is it possible to opt-out of any so called "value added service"? I have no intention of ever using any service that bills me via my mobile phone other that for direct services from my mobile provider (i.e. calls, data and SMSs). Cell C rep can you respond to this perhaps since I am using your network?
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Here are the rules:
1. Double Opt In. Before a person can be subscribed to a subscription service, he/she has to confirm by way of SMS that they understand the price and billing frequency. Only then can they be subscribed.
2. Every person that is part of subscription service must be sent a "reminder" message once a month. This message must contain the name of the service he is subscribed to, the cost, frequency AND how to unsubscribe.
3. If a person's total spend on a service is more than R200 per month, he needs to be advised by way of SMS that the purchase he is about to make will push his / her total spend over R200 and he has to acknowledge this before continuing. If the purchase is made via premium rated SMS, where the WASP does not controll the billing process, the Wasp needs to inform the user that he has just spent more than R200 on the service.

There are more, but these are the most important ones. If you did not receive Reminders for a subscription service, log a WASPA complaint.

There are WASPS that follow these rules diligently and it pisses them off when unscrupulous wasps give the industry a bad name.
 
ajax said:
Can we have your comments then on this post?
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Pity I did not see those before my comments.

Looking at those it appears that neither the aggregation WASP nor the network made the initial error here.

Not knowing how the sign up process works for this service it would seem that someone entered their number (perhaps profile; perhaps form) and this number was given an ID (eg DB sequence)

The MSISDN from the WAP request was correctly passed onto MIRA from Cell C who correctly passed it onto the client. Somewhere from there onwards the MSISDN that initiated the WAP request was ignored and instead the MSISDN associated the ID was used.

To sum it up, the service that was billing you, Kulaville, had a broken subscription system.
 
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My bank wouldn't accept a debit order without sufficient proof that I authorised it - what makes a SP any different?
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not true! ABSA accepted an unauthorized debit order on my account. Their reaction - not our problem, go sort it out with the company that submitted the debit order!
The banks simply accept and run the debit orders submitted.
 
I recently got my wife unsubscribed from some cr@ppy R7-a-day service... The WASP also sent me "proof" that she'd subscribed. Problem is... it was a year ago (May 2012), and we'd only noticed the disappearing airtime more recently... How the hell are we gonna get proof if she was or wasn't using the internet on that day one year ago!!??
Who knows how much money they've stolen from us in the past year.
I'm with CellC... I hope they also get themselves this "double opt-in" system in place and stop the thieving WASPS from defrauding countless innocents.
 
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