The Brexit Thread

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f2wohf said:
Then rather put them in India, staff is cheaper than London

What about putting SA's National Treasury and SARS in Indian as well ? (Just following your logic which is that a parastatal agency doesn't have to be on the territory it operates for).
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Already in Dubai bru ;)
 
OrbitalDawn said:
Of course she'll whine and play the victim. I'm sure we'll get a few on here whining, too.
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Whining?!? All I see is a fairly astute prime minister calling a spade a spade.

EU members seemingly need constant reminding that being nasty to the UK isn't necessarily in the EU's best interest, and their duty is to the EU, not to cut off their noses to spite their faces in an attempt to stick it to the UK.
 
NarrowBandFtw said:
Whining?!? All I see is a fairly astute prime minister calling a spade a spade.

EU members seemingly need constant reminding that being nasty to the UK isn't necessarily in the EU's best interest, and their duty is to the EU, not to cut off their noses to spite their faces in an attempt to stick it to the UK.
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All the EU asks is:
- their due (commitments until 2020 that the UK has always committed to pay even in case of Brexit);
- not disturb the life of EU citizens living in UK;
- UK financial institutions to respect the EU regulators and rules;
- do a free trade treaty once all this is sorted.

How is that being nasty ? It's defending the EU's interest without hurting the U.K.

The U.K. started with a hard Brexit strategy, and now backed seeing that they'll get into trouble if they keep on going this way.

If that's the EU trying to hamper U.K., I can't help correct your perception of reality.p

Edit: I forgot they also ask for the EU agencies based in UK to be moved back in EU territory. (What a shock !).
 
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f2wohf said:
All the EU asks is:
- their due (commitments until 2020 that the UK has always committed to pay even in case of Brexit);
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their due is f-all, zip, nada, past commitments went out the door the day article 50 was triggered

f2wohf said:
- not disturb the life of EU citizens living in UK;
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No they want a contractual commitment before the fact, the UK most likely does not want to change things on this front, but they would be batshyte insane to sign away their final say on this particular topic, the EU knows this and demanding anything of the sort prior to negotiating trade deals is just blackmail, nothing more

f2wohf said:
- UK financial institutions to respect the EU regulators and rules;
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:crylaugh: and any commitment here is needed for what exactly? you do business with the EU, you play by their rules, end of story. You don't, then you don't need to. Typical dinosaur, monolithic bureaucracy wants something committed to that is already clear as day. Just another delay tactic, nothing more.

f2wohf said:
- do a free trade treaty once all this is sorted
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per previous points, this is a delay tactic, free trade has nothing to do with the demands (or assurances if we're being overly nice) the EU is making

The UK is perfectly right to go for a hard brexit, hell the harder the better, the EU doesn't seem to have any clue that it is their blood that will be spilled in greater quantities if that comes to pass i.e. for the sake of the EU, the EU should negotiate in good faith rather than some misguided revenge plot.
 
NarrowBandFtw said:
their due is f-all, zip, nada, past commitments went out the door the day article 50 was triggered


No they want a contractual commitment before the fact, the UK most likely does not want to change things on this front, but they would be batshyte insane to sign away their final say on this particular topic, the EU knows this and demanding anything of the sort prior to negotiating trade deals is just blackmail, nothing more


:crylaugh: and any commitment here is needed for what exactly? you do business with the EU, you play by their rules, end of story. You don't, then you don't need to. Typical dinosaur, monolithic bureaucracy wants something committed to that is already clear as day. Just another delay tactic, nothing more.


per previous points, this is a delay tactic, free trade has nothing to do with the demands (or assurances if we're being overly nice) the EU is making

The UK is perfectly right to go for a hard brexit, hell the harder the better, the EU doesn't seem to have any clue that it is their blood that will be spilled in greater quantities if that comes to pass i.e. for the sake of the EU, the EU should negotiate in good faith rather than some misguided revenge plot.
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Not even gonna answer. If commitments mean nothing to you... I guess U.K. civil servants working at the EU won't have pensions then...

Blackmail no, setting a principle in stone in order to get this major point away is a good negotiation principle. You mustn't be used to negotiations...

You're so anti EU, it's pathetic. What did they do to you ? A EU civil servant passed in front of you in a line one day so you hate them all ?
 
f2wohf said:
You're so anti EU, it's pathetic
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Indeed, the EU is pathetic ...

I'm anti anything that forces square pegs through round holes, anything that favours authority over self determination and certainly anything that loves bureaucracy more than democracy.

The EU is all those things and worse, hell anyone who ever criticized the USSR should take a long, LONG, hard look at themselves in the mirror if they are pro-EU.

EDIT: forgot to state what I hope to be obvious, but I'm very much pro-European nations
 
NarrowBandFtw said:
EU members seemingly need constant reminding that being nasty to the UK isn't necessarily in the EU's best interest, and their duty is to the EU, not to cut off their noses to spite their faces in an attempt to stick it to the UK.
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I'm curious why you see this as the EU being nasty? Do you expect them to not negotiate anything and just let the UK have whatever it demands?

NarrowBandFtw said:
The UK is perfectly right to go for a hard brexit, hell the harder the better, the EU doesn't seem to have any clue that it is their blood that will be spilled in greater quantities if that comes to pass i.e. for the sake of the EU, the EU should negotiate in good faith rather than some misguided revenge plot.
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I'm also curious as to why you are so sure this is the case? Not saying you're wrong but it doesn't seem that clear cut to me - both side are large, strong organisations carrying a lot of clout and both sides have a lot to lose if things aren't negotiated to favour their respective positions
 
C4Cat said:
I'm curious why you see this as the EU being nasty? Do you expect them to not negotiate anything and just let the UK have whatever it demands?
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You'd have to look at statements by high profile EU people post brexit, the likes of Juncker, Merkel and Verhofstadt have made needlessly aggressive remarks in reference to the UK's departure and deals that will be struck. They've set a nasty tone from the start, which paints pretty much everything they do now in a negative light imo.

C4Cat said:
I'm also curious as to why you are so sure this is the case? Not saying you're wrong but it doesn't seem that clear cut to me - both side are large, strong organisations carrying a lot of clout and both sides have a lot to lose if things aren't negotiated to favour their respective positions
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At a macro level: https://fullfact.org/europe/uk-eu-trade/
The value of trade to the UK and the rest of the EU—we exported about £230 billion worth of goods and services to the rest of the EU in 2015, according to UK data, while the rest of the EU exported somewhere around £290 billion to us. These figures differ if you use EU data. What this means is that the rest of the EU sells more to us than we sell to it.
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The EU benefits greatly from trade with the UK, they will not magically find another country to take up the slack in trade, by contrast the UK has now freed themselves up to trade freely with the rest of the world and can more easily find a replacement for the EU as they're not bogged down by having to agree and negotiate these things with 27 other countries that they represent, they represent only themselves.
 
NarrowBandFtw said:
You'd have to look at statements by high profile EU people post brexit, the likes of Juncker, Merkel and Verhofstadt have made needlessly aggressive remarks in reference to the UK's departure and deals that will be struck. They've set a nasty tone from the start, which paints pretty much everything they do now in a negative light imo.


At a macro level: https://fullfact.org/europe/uk-eu-trade/


The EU benefits greatly from trade with the UK, they will not magically find another country to take up the slack in trade, by contrast the UK has now freed themselves up to trade freely with the rest of the world and can more easily find a replacement for the EU as they're not bogged down by having to agree and negotiate these things with 27 other countries that they represent, they represent only themselves.
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this imo is why all the crying from the EU, middlemen will now lose their slice of pie. also, maybe the still had the hope of assimilating the pound one day..
 
f2wohf said:
Not even gonna answer. If commitments mean nothing to you... I guess U.K. civil servants working at the EU won't have pensions then...

Blackmail no, setting a principle in stone in order to get this major point away is a good negotiation principle. You mustn't be used to negotiations...

You're so anti EU, it's pathetic. What did they do to you ? A EU civil servant passed in front of you in a line one day so you hate them all ?
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Don't you know - peace and prosperity is overrated. We need to go back to brain dead nationalistic chest-thumping.
 
OrbitalDawn said:
Don't you know - peace and prosperity is overrated. We need to go back to brain dead nationalistic chest-thumping.
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Peace?!? Like the peace the 130 victims of the Paris attacks are now resting in?
Prosperity?!? Tell that to the millions of Greeks who were queuing at ATMs for their pittance, hell tell it to any of the PIIGS.
 
NarrowBandFtw said:
Peace?!? Like the peace the 130 victims of the Paris attacks are now resting in?
Prosperity?!? Tell that to the millions of Greeks who were queuing at ATMs for their pittance, hell tell it to any of the PIIGS.
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Last time I remember, just before the EU, we had two small regional wars that started between France and Germany.

You know from 1914 to 1918 and 1939 to 1945.

But I guess we must say goodbye to 70 years of peace within EU for 300 people killed.

The US would have made a new secession war once a year if this was the case...
 
OrbitalDawn said:
Don't you know - peace and prosperity is overrated. We need to go back to brain dead nationalistic chest-thumping.
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how does this relate to peacefulness and prosperity? sounds like wishful thinking.

some people reaction to this seems the opposite.

one persons happiness is anothers misery.

why is the usa not doing this with their neighbors but telling eu countries to do it?
 
access said:
how does this relate to peacefulness and prosperity? sounds like wishful thinking.

some people reaction to this seems the opposite.

one persons happiness is anothers misery.

why is the usa not doing this with their neighbors but telling eu countries to do it?
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Because when was the last US war with their neighbours ?

When was the last intra EU war ?

What was the consequence of the Mexican-US war ?

What was the consequence of WW2 ?

The EU has been created at the start to tie steel and coal production between France and Germany so that one could not rearm himself without the other being able to block it. Basically to avoid a third German french conflict.
 
NarrowBandFtw said:
Peace?!? Like the peace the 130 victims of the Paris attacks are now resting in?
Prosperity?!? Tell that to the millions of Greeks who were queuing at ATMs for their pittance, hell tell it to any of the PIIGS.
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Right, people didn't get killed before the EU. :crylaugh:

access said:
how does this relate to peacefulness and prosperity? sounds like wishful thinking.

some people reaction to this seems the opposite.

one persons happiness is anothers misery.

why is the usa not doing this with their neighbors but telling eu countries to do it?
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Because the EU has been a remarkable engine for stability and peace, enabling greater prosperity.

The European continent has a history soaked in blood that has seen unprecedented peace over the last half-century due in no small part to the closer cooperation of the various nations and the ability of the EU to sort out conflicts before they escalate.
 
f2wohf said:
Last time I remember, just before the EU, we had two small regional wars that started between France and Germany.
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Jesus talk about the (not so) soft bigotry of low expectations. Do you mean to say the ONLY thing that is keeping Europeans from slaughtering each other is a forced political union?

That single construct is all that keeps the blood lust at bay?

:crylaugh:
 
OrbitalDawn said:
Right, people didn't get killed before the EU
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oy vei, another one, see below:
NarrowBandFtw said:
Jesus talk about the (not so) soft bigotry of low expectations. Do you mean to say the ONLY thing that is keeping Europeans from slaughtering each other is a forced political union?

That single construct is all that keeps the blood lust at bay?

:crylaugh:
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