Affirmative action unfairly discriminates - FW de Klerk

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Drake2007

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http://www.moneyweb.co.za/mw/view/mw/en/page295025?oid=305720&sn=Detail

SPEECH BY F W DE KLERK TO SOLIDARITY'S INTERNATIONAL CONFERENCE ON AFFIRMATIVE ACTION, CENTURION, JULY 15 2009

AFFIRMATIVE ACTION AND THE ELUSIVE SEARCH FOR EQUALITY

In preparing the speech I will now deliver I had to make some choices. Do I speak on the subject of Affirmative Action in a broad and philosophical sense? Or do I address the subject from a South African perspective and within the framework of our Constitution and our legislation?
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Man oh man that's a long read....
 
South Africa's failure to achieve greater income equality is reflected in the fact that, according to the UN Development Programme, it is one of the most unequal societies in the world. Our GINI coefficient of .66 has remained virtually constant since 1994. It is deeply ironic that the income gap between black and white South Africans actually closed more rapidly between 1970 and 1994 than it has done since then.
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tidbit
 
another titbit
* Firstly, most affirmative action and BEE measures affect only the top 15 per cent of the income pyramid and have little or no impact on the condition of the bottom 85 per cent of our society. It is like playing musical chairs in an airliner - while the vast majority of the population watches helplessly from the ground. The manner in which affirmative action has been applied means that a small minority of the black population has benefited quite significantly, while the great majority has been left behind. This has substantially increased inequality within the black section of our population.
* Secondly, in implementing affirmative action those involved have too often overlooked the requirement that beneficiaries should be suitably qualified. The Fair Employment Act of 1998 states that

"Affirmative action measures are measures designed to ensure that suitably qualified people from designated groups have equal employment opportunities and are equitably represented in all occupational categories and levels in the workforce of a designated employer.

No thinking person can reasonably quarrel with this formulation.

The problem is that there are at the moment simply not enough suitably qualified black South Africans to fill their proportional share of all the highly skilled technical and managerial posts in the private and public sectors.

Despite progress, black South Africans in 2009 still accounted for only 17% of the candidates who passed the chartered accountants final exam. In 2008 only 23% of the engineers registered with the Engineering Council of SA were black.

The reality is that the wholesale appointment of people who are not suitably qualified has been a major factor in dysfunctional service delivery by the state - particularly at the municipal level. Unbalanced affirmative action has undermined the right of millions of ordinary South Africans to equal enjoyment of many of the basic rights in the constitution - including most notably

* the right to life and security;
* the right to health care, food, water and social security; and
* the right to education.

By so-doing unbalanced affirmative action has actually undermined the right to equality.
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How ironic that one of the architects of the "New Improved South Africa" has now decided that affirmative action discriminates. No sh*t Sherlock!
At least he made his millions first hey?
 
A very interesting read. Nicely laid out and highly accurate.

The education stats are absolutely shocking though!!!

We shall not be able to advance the achievement of equality until we can provide all South Africans with decent education.
Of the 1.67 million children who entered the school system in 1995 only 34% made it to matric in 2007.
Of these 1.67 million children only 22% passed matric and only 5.2% did so with the exemption required for university.
Finally, only 1.5% passed maths at the higher grade
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/me sadly brings out the c*** umbrella to block any "Julius" comments.
 
Hahahahahaha this always make me laugh, for years the old government discriminated against blacks, now the rolls are reversed and everyone is crying :D

Tit for tat i suppose. Get over it. It is our turn for discrimination, let's hope the next generation move on from all this race BS. Besides we live pretty compared to how the blacks used to.

I have yet set see black only area's enforced by the government.
 
Kosmik said:
A very interesting read. Nicely laid out and highly accurate.

The education stats are absolutely shocking though!!!
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He covers all the bases for sure. I found it difficult to pick out anything debateable.
 
killadoob said:
Hahahahahaha this always make me laugh, for years the old government discriminated against blacks, now the rolls are reversed and everyone is crying :D

Tit for tat i suppose. Get over it. It is our turn for discrimination, let's hope the next generation move on from all this race BS. Besides we live pretty compared to how the blacks used to.

I have yet set see black only area's enforced by the government.
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Seriously:eek: Lets edit that out.
So you are saying its oke?
 
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FW did the right thing at his time - unfortunately the ANC has been mucking it up since then. The age old African sicknesses of greed and power have corrupted them completely.

killadoob is an obvious example of the ANC's education failure. :D
 
lol. I doubt Juliass or for that matter any ANC member will be able to understand the speech. They will need to wait for a newspaper to summarise and explain everything to them.
 
killadoob said:
Hahahahahaha this always make me laugh, for years the old government discriminated against blacks, now the rolls are reversed and everyone is crying :D

Tit for tat i suppose. Get over it. It is our turn for discrimination, let's hope the next generation move on from all this race BS. Besides we live pretty compared to how the blacks used to.

I have yet set see black only area's enforced by the government.
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killa, I'm always gobsmacked by this white guilt BS.

Are you really intending to teach your kids that one day? When is it going to be ok to be white again?

On the subject of education - why does there need to be any "tat"? We should be in a position now to offer everyone a proper education with acceptable standards.
 
killadoob said:
Hahahahahaha this always make me laugh, for years the old government discriminated against blacks, now the rolls are reversed and everyone is crying :D
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Yes the old [operative word] Government[/operative word] discriminated against blacks no doubt about that. However as everyone knows (or at least ought to) the world condemned them for discriminating on race and was deemed illegal. Therefore logically what the government is now doing should also be deemed illegal. I never discriminated against blacks, the government did. I had no hand (like many others) in putting that government into power so why should they be discriminated against/punished. All it proves it that the ANC/Current ruling party are racist, if not more so than white people ever were. A little controversial statement there but just by sheer numbers I've come to that deduction. At the most maybe 6 million people during apartheid voted for an apartheid government, which made 6 million people racist according to your statement. These days maybe 40 million people are voting for a racist government. See the logic? (Yes I know it's flawed)

Tit for tat i suppose. Get over it. It is our turn for discrimination, let's hope the next generation move on from all this race BS. Besides we live pretty compared to how the blacks used to.
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Get over it? Why? The formerly oppressed haven't gotten over it. In fact they're still blaming that discrimination on their current failures!

I have yet set see black only area's enforced by the government.
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And there we have it...yet... In five years time when the government has redistributed white owned farms to black people, that's forced removal of one race by another race. Which in effect is going to be enforcing black only areas. They've started that already.

On the subject of education - why does there need to be any "tat"? We should be in a position now to offer everyone a proper education with acceptable standards.
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Exactly!
 
Retro you are most times a sensible guy who makes sensible comments. But here you are joining the legions of morons who continue to equate AA/BEE to apartheid - the two cannot be compared! What killadoob said was out of order yes, AA/BEE are not about exacting vengence as killa implies! Reading his comment it looks like he said it in jest.

The world is not going to condemn the ANC government for discriminating against white people because that is not what they are doing. The world is thankfully smarter than the average ignorant myBB poster and AA is practised the world over for the same reasons it is used in this country.

This AA/BEE debates are getting old and fast.
 
larrychang said:
Retro you are most times a sensible guy who makes sensible comments. But here you are joining the legions of morons who continue to equate AA/BEE to apartheid - the two cannot be compared! What killadoob said was out of order yes, AA/BEE are not about exacting vengence as killa implies! Reading his comment it looks like he said it in jest.

The world is not going to condemn the ANC government for discriminating against white people because that is not what they are doing. The world is thankfully smarter than the average ignorant myBB poster and AA is practised the world over for the same reasons it is used in this country.

This AA/BEE debates are getting old and fast.
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Larry, I hear you and don't quite consider AA/BEE to equate to a post-apartheid apartheid. However, is the AA practised in other parts of the world not there to protect the minority rather than the majority? In our case it serves to protect the "previously disadvantaged" who just so happen to be the majority and as time passes, so dwindles the punch that this term once packed. Yet, as we see it, there is no end in sight to these policies. If this keeps up, one cannot help but to assume that AA as we have it in SA, serves also as a discriminatory tool to rid the country of whites.
 
larrychang said:
Retro you are most times a sensible guy who makes sensible comments. But here you are joining the legions of morons who continue to equate AA/BEE to apartheid - the two cannot be compared! What killadoob said was out of order yes, AA/BEE are not about exacting vengence as killa implies! Reading his comment it looks like he said it in jest.

The world is not going to condemn the ANC government for discriminating against white people because that is not what they are doing. The world is thankfully smarter than the average ignorant myBB poster and AA is practised the world over for the same reasons it is used in this country.

This AA/BEE debates are getting old and fast.
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Yes they are however what is also getting old and tired is people who keep blaming apartheid for their own failings. Why should people feel guilty for being part of a particular culture. I'm not equating AA/BEE to apartheid, what I am saying is that AA/BEE is discrimination as FW says, it's discrimination, and in S.A. that means it's discrimination against a minority on the basis of their skin colour, which is racism. Racism in most civilized parts of the world is deemed morally wrong, and illegal.

Whether Killa was saying it in jest I don't know to me it seems not particularly since he's posted once and has not reacted to anyone's replies.
Either way my point stands, there should be no discrimination in the work place at all and peoples positions should be based on merit and not skin colour/sex/religion etc.

I'm well aware that AA is in force the world over however that's because in most countries that employ this policy people of colour are in the minority and not the other way round like in S.A.. That's why I deem it to be wrong and racist.
 
RetroBok said:
I'm well aware that AA is in force the world over however that's because in most countries that employ this policy people of colour are in the minority and not the other way round like in S.A.. That's why I deem it to be wrong and racist.
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Being in London I thought you would be aware that companies there promote an equal opportunities employment strategy (see most of the big co.'s jobs' ads).

Flanders, AA is an equal opportunities employment strategies. The reason that the minorities are benefitting in the west is that in those parts of the world the minorities have not been allowed equal opportunities in that part of the world. In this country it is the majority who were not allowed equal opportunites. Now here it was worse because it was institutionalised. In other parts of the world it is a just an inherent racist mindset that made whites believe people of other colours were incapable of doing the work.
 
Flanders said:
killa, I'm always gobsmacked by this white guilt BS.

Are you really intending to teach your kids that one day? When is it going to be ok to be white again?

On the subject of education - why does there need to be any "tat"? We should be in a position now to offer everyone a proper education with acceptable standards.
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No i have no guilt, i am just saying that in life if you do something to someone and they reverse it on you cannot bitch.

While i am also sick of this whole thing it is not something that will die. It will take a few more decades to go away, 14 odd years is not enough.

What about families who teach their kids racism? i know i have a lot of friends like this as do many people, once the parents start teaching the kids a different tune only then will it go away.

My point though was even though BEE favours a race, the other races in this country still lead half decent lives, we can go anywhere, we mostly have half decent jobs, half decent education. So we are far better off then back in the day when black folk had none of that. As far as i am concerned the white okes are still far better off than the black okes.

Another point is that majority blacks do not have the education, majority are poor, live in horrid conditions, lets be honest without companies being forced to hire black people in good positions they would not, as much as people want to believe racism in this country is gone and does not exist that is far from the truth.

They need to force companies to do this, sadly though as usual BEE and what not failed purely because it has been very poorly implemented.
The tat that is happening is not because the black government is racist like the old government, they know without forcing companies to hire blacks in high positions they would not do so, majority of them anyhow. I know this may be shocking and some may not believe it but i think it is exactly what would happen.

The tat is all about getting blacks into more than a laborers position, sadly 14 years of education is not nearly enough time to start seeing results.
 
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killadoob said:
No i have no guilt, i am just saying that in life if you do something to someone and they reverse it on you cannot bitch.
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because every white person benefited equally from apartheid instead of actually working to where they got to let some idiot take their job? LOL

While i am also sick of this whole thing it is not something that will die. It will take a few more decades to go away, 14 odd years is not enough
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well If they can,t get over it yet then it only proves to me more that they are not capable of moving on, o well, I guess they have a inferior mind set after all....

What about families who teach their kids racism? i know i have a lot of friends like this as do many people, once the parents start teaching the kids a different tune only then will it go away.
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I find it kinda hard to like the person who would cost me my job, or any other family member, and the idiot who took it because he was "previously disadvantaged". Racism will only get better once those parents get convinced that they are not right,..... its been tough proving them otherwise.
My point though was even though BEE favours a race, the other races in this country still lead half decent lives, we can go anywhere, we mostly have half decent jobs, half decent education. So we are far better off then back in the day when black folk had none of that. As far as i am concerned the white okes are still far better off than the black okes.
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Half a job, only gives 50% , I don't know about you but I am not happy when I get half a reward for a good job done or anything similar.
Another point is that majority blacks do not have the education, majority are poor, lives in horrid conditions, lets be honest without companies being forced to hire black people in good positions they would not, as much as people want to believe racism in this country is gone and does not exist that is far from the truth.
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Who's responsibility is it to educate them now? surely not the government..... have they met their goals? I doubt it.

They need to force companies to do this, sadly though as usual BEE and what not failed purely because it has been very poorly implemented.
The tat that is happening is not because the black government is racist like the old government, they know without forcing companies to hire blacks in high positions they would not do so, majority of them anyhow. I know this may be shocking and some may not believe it but i think it is exactly what would happen.

The tat is all about getting blacks into more than a laborers position, sadly 14 years of education is not nearly enough time to start seeing results.
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I have a feeling that in the next 14 or 20 years we will still be without results, bee is racist, I don't care how they justify it, its stupid seeing that the white man is actually caring the country via tax and companies at the moment,
 
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