Cellphone signal concerns raised again

On 702 today:
http://money.cnn.com/2008/07/23/technology/cell_phone_cancer.ap/index.htm
RPM quite interesting that this was on the John Robbie show today with Harley Kahns from the USA.


There is no doubt in my mind that this will turn out to be like the cigarette fiasco.
There is no doubt in my mind that these signals and device cause cancer or something like that.
I know when talking on a handset for long periods of time, I feel nauseous.
 
I doubt cellphone signals are dangerous, so far 14 years and there doesnt seem to be any harm caused, Wimax as I said before uses the same frequency as a standard microwave so its a little more worrying I guess.
 
Well I've exposed myself to far greater RF power. No ill effects.

However, passive smoking has affected my health. I now have asthma courtesy of Mom and Dad, a nearby spraypaint job, previous job gave me lead poisoning aswell...
 
I think the dangers are never going to be obvious because of the nature of the threat. I believe one of the main dangers is to developing children - and it's subtle but has serious consequences...
Tuesday, November 27, 2007

How Cell Phones May Cause Autism

Rates of autism, a disabling neurodevelopmental disorder, have increased nearly 60-fold since the late 1970s, with the most significant increases occurring in the past decade.

The cause of autism is unknown, although theories include such potential causes as:

Genetic predisposition Inability to clear heavy metals Increased vulnerability to oxidative stress Environmental exposures including mercury preservatives in vaccines Trans-generational accumulation of toxic heavy metals Now a groundbreaking new theory has been suggested by a study published in the Journal of the Australasian College of Nutritional & Environmental Medicine: electromagnetic radiation (EMR) from cell phones, cell towers, Wi-Fi devices and other similar wireless technologies as an accelerating factor in autism.

EMR May be the Missing Link

The study, which involved over five years of research on children with autism and other membrane sensitivity disorders, found that EMR negatively affects cell membranes, and allows heavy metal toxins, which are associated with autism, to build up in your body.

Meanwhile, the researchers pointed out that autism rates have increased concurrently along with the proliferation of cell phones and wireless use.

EMR, the researchers say, could impact autism by facilitating early onset of symptoms or by trapping heavy metals inside of nerve cells, which could accelerate the onset of symptoms of heavy metal toxicity and hinder therapeutic clearance of the toxins .

Speaking in reference to the huge rise in autism rates, Dr. George Carlo, the study's co-author, said, A rise of this magnitude must have a major environmental cause. Our data offer a reasonable mechanistic explanation for a connection between autism and wireless technology.

They also suggest that EMR from wireless devices works in conjunction with environmental and genetic factors to cause autism.

Primary researcher for this article is Tamara Mariea. Her clinic is called Internal Balance" Inc.(www.internalbalance.com) and is a state-of-the-art Detoxification Clinic located in the Nashville, TN area. Her objective is to provide high quality and current up-to-date information on the hottest topics in the natural health industry including sound advice on how to implement a personal wellness and detoxification program that works. One of the most successful programs offered at Internal Balance is the unique strategies implemented for autistic children. In working backward through the autistic child's life, making changes to their environment, diet and implementing State-of-the-Art detoxification strategies, the Internal Balance team has witnessed numerous changes and improvements in the lives and families of these children. In a few cases, they have witnessed miracles that have changed lives forever, including Mariea's team.

Parents consistently report back that during and after the detoxification process and most importantly after making modifications to their home, they see huge changes in their children's developmental progress and a decrease in the children's general sensory discomfort.

Although Mariea believes that autism is a complicated condition that must have several factors at play for a child to fall to this diagnosis, she does believe that the three largest factors at play are

Genetically determined detoxification capacity Early insult to immune system via contaminated vaccines and Being born with high levels of toxic burden and into a technologically advanced society riddled with ever increasing levels of radiation
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You can bet there will be studies financed by the giants to disprove anything that becomes a threat to their livelyhood... anyone know the figures spent on cellphone networks worldwide? What about the manufacturers? Eish - don't think anyone can actually come up with an accurate figure it is so big.

“We have observed this entire spectrum of illnesses around masts in Johannesburg, and also noted that symptoms improve as soon as people move away,” Muller says.

Vodacom says radio wave exposure from base stations in public sites is thousands of times lower than the permitted limit.
Click to expand...

All that second paragraph above from Vodacom says to me - in light of the preceding paragraph - is that the permitted limit is wayyyyy too high
 
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I posted on this topic at length.

If some/many studies find that cell phone and other information-carrying radio waves DO have harmful health effects then you're not likely to hear about it. Or, if you do, it will be presented in a scoffing manner or immediately followed up by some white-wash report from a scientist prostituting for industry.

Think about it: big business owns the media, and big business owns telcos. To this you might respond "Ah! But it's not the SAME big business that owns them!" To which I reply: "big business", by means of the individuals who run them, forms a giant de facto network (once loaded, click on "LOAD MAP", then select the map "All the news they see fit to print").
 
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*sigh* here we go again, once-bloody-more on the merry-go-round. How about THIS time the non-cognosenti take a look at the properties of the inverse-square law as it applies to radiation? (local copy of the graphic here)

From rpm's news article:
Handsets communicate with base stations via low-power radio signals, and some of that energy may be absorbed by the body, with potential harm caused by the heating effects.
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Quite - and the radiation we absorb comes from the handset, dammit, not the tower which is much too far away to cause any kind of effect; afterall:
Even so, it would be advisable to keep about 60cm away from a base station, its website says.
Click to expand...
THAT kind of distance is achievable only by service personnel, Johnny Public standing right under a tower would be what, 20-30m away - already 50 TIMES the minimum recommended distance ..and the further you go the more the power drops off. Also, while we're at it, have you stopped to think about the ERP (effective radiated power) of FM radio and TV transmitters, think how far those suckers reach, yet none of the sheeple ever bleat about those.
marine1 said:
On 702 today:
http://money.cnn.com/2008/07/23/technology/cell_phone_cancer.ap/index.htm
RPM quite interesting that this was on the John Robbie show today with Harley Kahns from the USA.
Click to expand...
From the tone of that (from what looks a whole lot like a glory-hound seeking prof looking to raise his profile) article, I read that as he is saying limit use because of radiation from the handsets, not the towers and that's a fair comment. Remember that the 'further' you are, the harder the handset has to work and so, step up its power output. Note that 'further' can mean either distance or, say, inside buildings that heavily attenuate the local tower's signal.
There is no doubt in my mind that this will turn out to be like the cigarette fiasco.
There is no doubt in my mind that these signals and device cause cancer or something like that.
Click to expand...
So, you're scientifically and medically qualified to make those assumptions eh? :rolleyes: ..bear in mind that some of the great minds of their day dismissed the idea of man-made flight and the power of the atomic bomb.
I know when talking on a handset for long periods of time, I feel nauseous.
Click to expand...
stop being so cheap and get a Bluetooth or even wired-handsfree kit and get the phone away from your head. ;)

JK8 said:
I doubt cellphone signals are dangerous, so far 14 years and there doesnt seem to be any harm caused, Wimax as I said before uses the same frequency as a standard microwave so its a little more worrying I guess.
Click to expand...
You mean the higher frequencies (a quick scan of WiMAX shows frequencies at 2.3GHz and up) that are even closer to the resonant frequency of water ..this is WHY microwave ovens resonate at 2.4, that's where they're most effective, considering what you're heating.
 
marine1 said:
There is no doubt in my mind that this will turn out to be like the cigarette fiasco.
There is no doubt in my mind that these signals and device cause cancer or something like that.
Click to expand...
well, if there is no doubt in your mind, despite the total lack of evidence, that points to a closed mind, imo. I'm not saying you are wrong, but the evidence is weak.
While spacemuis may be correct that big business puts their profit interests ahead of consumer health, trying to convince people that something is harmful opens the door to quacks selling nonense gadgets to 'protect' you. Like the QLink pendant for example.
From that site: "Q-Link products strengthen and balance your body’s energetic system, boosting your resilience to all kinds of stress. Scientifically tested and endorsed by top practitioners, wearers report having increased energy and concentration, calmness, better sleep, improved sports performance as well as Electromagnetic Fields (EMF) protection."
Ben Goldacre investigates: http://www.badscience.net/?p=413
http://www.badscience.net/?p=425
"Last summer I obtained one of these devices (from somewhere cheaper than Holford’s shop) and took it to Camp Dorkbot, an annual festival for dorks held - in a joke taken too far - at a scout camp outside Dorking. Here in the sunshine, some of the nation’s cheekiest electronics geeks examined the QLink. We chucked probes at it, and tried to detect any “frequencies” emitted, with no joy. And then we did what any proper dork does when presented with an interesting device: we broke it open. Drilling down, the first thing we came to was the circuit board. This, we noted with some amusement, was not in any sense connected to the copper coil, and therefore is not powered by it."

Bradbowlllama said
You can bet there will be studies financed by the giants to disprove anything that becomes a threat to their livelyhood...
Click to expand...
um... they have no need to disprove anything, there is no evidence of a link between autism and electromagnetic radiation. If that is proved, then I agree the 'giants' would need to spend money 'disproving' it.

Autism: If You Can't Blame MMR, Let's Try Wi-Fi
 
bdt said:
From rpm's news article:Quite - and the radiation we absorb comes from the handset, dammit, not the tower which is much too far away to cause any kind of effect; afterall:THAT kind of distance is achievable only by service personnel, Johnny Public standing right under a tower would be what, 20-30m away - already 50 TIMES the minimum recommended distance ..and the further you go the more the power drops off.
Click to expand...
Not so bdt -
Undeterred, Emag SA says numerous studies worldwide show increased illnesses around base stations, including sleep disorders, headaches, chronic fatigue, muscular weakness, attention problems, Alzheimer's disease, epilepsy, Parkinson’s disease, mood swings, depression, infertility, lowered immunity, lingering flu, increased allergies and higher cancer rates.

“We have observed this entire spectrum of illnesses around masts in Johannesburg, and also noted that symptoms improve as soon as people move away,” Muller says.
Click to expand...
 
bdt said:
Also, while we're at it, have you stopped to think about the ERP (effective radiated power) of FM radio and TV transmitters, think how far those suckers reach, yet none of the sheeple ever bleat about those.
Click to expand...

Agreed, the power of these tv towers are much higher. E.g the CN tower in Toronto has stations going up to 1 MegaWatt, at UHF frequencies (UHF going up to about 800 MHz). If you use the inverse square law you can calculate the power density you are exposed to from these. Do the math, it's a lot more than a 40 W GSM or WiMAX tower in your backyard. Strange that people don't "get sick" from these tv towers. The tv towers have also been around for decades.

It's the mobile phone HANDSETS that should be under scrutiny, but even those that complain about "getting sick from towers" can't go without these, so there we are.
 
bdt said:
*sigh* here we go again, once-bloody-more on the merry-go-round. How about THIS time the non-cognosenti take a look at the properties of the inverse-square law as it applies to radiation? (local copy of the graphic here)

From rpm's news article:Quite - and the radiation we absorb comes from the handset, dammit, not the tower which is much too far away to cause any kind of effect; afterall:THAT kind of distance is achievable only by service personnel, Johnny Public standing right under a tower would be what, 20-30m away - already 50 TIMES the minimum recommended distance ..and the further you go the more the power drops off. Also, while we're at it, have you stopped to think about the ERP (effective radiated power) of FM radio and TV transmitters, think how far those suckers reach, yet none of the sheeple ever bleat about those.
From the tone of that (from what looks a whole lot like a glory-hound seeking prof looking to raise his profile) article, I read that as he is saying limit use because of radiation from the handsets, not the towers and that's a fair comment. Remember that the 'further' you are, the harder the handset has to work and so, step up its power output. Note that 'further' can mean either distance or, say, inside buildings that heavily attenuate the local tower's signal.
So, you're scientifically and medically qualified to make those assumptions eh? :rolleyes: ..bear in mind that some of the great minds of their day dismissed the idea of man-made flight and the power of the atomic bomb.stop being so cheap and get a Bluetooth or even wired-handsfree kit and get the phone away from your head. ;)

You mean the higher frequencies (a quick scan of WiMAX shows frequencies at 2.3GHz and up) that are even closer to the resonant frequency of water ..this is WHY microwave ovens resonate at 2.4, that's where they're most effective, considering what you're heating.
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So genius enlighten us to your degrees that you have from studying all of this. Posting such a long winded post and insulting others just proves you dont have a freaking clue what you are talking about. Posting links to WIKI and reports from people who have been paid by cellphone companies doesnt fly either.
I suppose it was people like you who said smoking was not bad for you back in the day.
Instead of moaning and insulting others maybe post something constructive or dont post at all.
Glory hound? Maybe look in the mirror.
Oh and you can SIGH all you like, we will continue to debate this until we get concrete proof either way.
 
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Go and google that top neuro surgeon who said he has proof of it. It was posted a while back on this site.
Dr Vini Khurana

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-s...hones-more-dangerous-than-smoking-802602.html
Thanks but I will believe a leading expert over a troll anyday ;)

"It draws on growing evidence – exclusively reported in the IoS in October – that using handsets for 10 years or more can double the risk of brain cancer. Cancers take at least a decade to develop, invalidating official safety assurances based on earlier studies which included few, if any, people who had used the phones for that long. "
Want to still argue doctor? :rolleyes:

"Earlier this year, the French government warned against the use of mobile phones, especially by children. Germany also advises its people to minimise handset use, and the European Environment Agency has called for exposures to be reduced."

Oh wait they must be wrong because you say so or maybe the cell companies say so. Right?
 
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marine1 said:
Go and google that top neuro surgeon who said he has proof of it. It was posted a while back on this site.
Dr Vini Khurana

That is worrisome for sure. I'll wait for the peer reviews, but in the meantime, better safe than sorry (joelus gets out bluetooth headset)
Click to expand...
 
Undeterred, Emag SA says numerous studies worldwide show increased illnesses around base stations, including sleep disorders, headaches, chronic fatigue, muscular weakness, attention problems, Alzheimer's disease, epilepsy, Parkinson’s disease, mood swings, depression, infertility, lowered immunity, lingering flu, increased allergies and higher cancer rates.

“We have observed this entire spectrum of illnesses around masts in Johannesburg, and also noted that symptoms improve as soon as people move away,” Muller says.
Click to expand...

Thats funny! Its also false!
People should research things before making comments, RF have been around for years now everything from your gate remote to TV remotes, DSTV, radio frequencies etc etc etc are around us so why hasnt our brains melted into blobs yet? Mood swings are caused by cellphone towers? Really?
Is the cellphone towers resposible for my hayfever? Really?

Lol you guys are clowns, a cell tower in the sky is 1/100th of the required safety regulations of the WHO.
So they say its clear.
 
Once again, who to believe....some guys who think they know what they are talking about on a local forum or a world renowned doctor and some 1st world governments....hmmmm what a tough choice.
 
JK8 said:

Lol you guys are clowns, a cell tower in the sky is 1/100th of the required safety regulations of the WHO.
So they say its clear.
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Not sure that the WHO has the last say on what is and isn't safe - especially when they haven't conducted any sustained clinical trials on the subject...
 
marine1 said:
Once again, who to believe....some guys who think they know what they are talking about on a local forum or a world renowned doctor and some 1st world governments....hmmmm what a tough choice.
Click to expand...

Undeterred, Emag SA says numerous studies worldwide show increased illnesses around base stations, including sleep disorders, headaches, chronic fatigue, muscular weakness, attention problems, Alzheimer's disease, epilepsy, Parkinson’s disease, mood swings, depression, infertility, lowered immunity, lingering flu, increased allergies and higher cancer rates.

“We have observed this entire spectrum of illnesses around masts in Johannesburg, and also noted that symptoms improve as soon as people move away,” Muller says.
Click to expand...

Do you really believe this? With the fast paced world we live, increased interest rates, increased stress from all factors of living in todays world now have the cellphone towers to blame? Because Muller says!:p
 
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