I'm tired of searching on behalf of others

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Raithlin

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WARNING: This thread may lead to flaming, cussing, ranting, general offense and, well, it may not. :erm:

I'm noticing a trend here, and I'm sure the senior devs on this forum will agree (at least to some extent). I'm noticing questions popping up (often by beginners) that are easily resolved by a simple online search (Bing/Google/Yahoo! - take your pick). That saddens me, and it also irritates me. Developers spend their lives updating their knowledge base online (unless you're into COBOL :p), and using a search engine to solve a problem has become a necessary skill. The irritation steps in when I go and type a few keywords into my chosen engine, and find the perfect solution on the first page. It's time to teach junior devs how to search.

To that end, I suggest posting search result URLs as answers to appropriate questions - possibly with a pointer to the right article to look at. It's the only way we're gonna get beginners encouraged enough to search for themselves, while answering the question at hand. It may also teach some of us search engine lingo (the more advanced queries, anyway).

Thoughts? Flames? Rants? Go ahead. Make my day. :cool:
 
First let me comment on your incorrect syntax, it's an UPFRONT DISCLAIMER(©FarligOpptreden 2009) not a WARNING: :D

However I agree with you 100%. I estimate around 40%-60% of the posts in this forum can be solved by copy/paste the thread name into Google.

There have been a lot of threads lately that go as follows:
OP: I want to do x.
REPLY: Okay have you looked and y & z.
OP: But what about w.
REPLY: Oh I see then you need y/z + w
OP: How do I do that?
ME: http://gog.is/How,to,y/z+w
OP: Stops posting and or complains.

It's crazy and I don't get it either. People are generally useless...
 
true, true!

Hi, Agree - here is a solution. I was looking for some linux info and looked for myself at some of the linux forums and some of them have a nice index of problems/quesitions which can be looked at first before posting, eg below. Now I know our mods have enough work to do and am not asking for it to be their duty - but something as below if done will eliminate such basic type queries.

# HOWTO install NVIDIA drivers on FC3
# Howto stop your laptop from crashing when power source is changed.
# HOWTO: Use 4th gen. iPod (usb) with Linux
# Impractical HOWTO's: NetBSD on a Macintosh Powerbook 160
# Installing ATIs Proprietary Drivers
# Installing new accelerated Nvidia Linux Drivers in 5 EASY Steps
# Installing Skystar 2 in Linux
# Installing SuSE 9.0 to dual boot on an IBM ThinkPad T41 with XP
# Installing UHF/Analogue TV Cards
 
solution: don't respond then. <disclaimer goes here>
 
Last edited:
elmorya said:
Hi, Agree - here is a solution. I was looking for some linux info and looked for myself at some of the linux forums and some of them have a nice index of problems/quesitions which can be looked at first before posting, eg below. Now I know our mods have enough work to do and am not asking for it to be their duty - but something as below if done will eliminate such basic type queries.

# HOWTO install NVIDIA drivers on FC3
# Howto stop your laptop from crashing when power source is changed.
# HOWTO: Use 4th gen. iPod (usb) with Linux
# Impractical HOWTO's: NetBSD on a Macintosh Powerbook 160
# Installing ATIs Proprietary Drivers
# Installing new accelerated Nvidia Linux Drivers in 5 EASY Steps
# Installing Skystar 2 in Linux
# Installing SuSE 9.0 to dual boot on an IBM ThinkPad T41 with XP
# Installing UHF/Analogue TV Cards
Click to expand...

That's nice, but the thread titles are already there, although not as neatly. If someone can't be bothered to search for then go to the thread "Displaying local weather in HTML"* they're not going to look for "Howto: display local weather in HTML".

No, the answer is that people should stop being lazy and should do a little searching first.

Most of the interesting stuff I've learnt has started with "Oooo, I wonder how I can do this?" followed by a search. It's not that difficult.


*Random example.
 
@elmorya: A nice concept, but one that would require constant tweaking. Besides, there are entire sites that handle this well. Stack Overflow is an excellent example of self-sorting QA topics.

@Necuno: I'm trying to help people here, but in a manner that actually has a lasting effect...

@chiskop: Agreed.
 
Necuno said:
solution: don't respond then.
Click to expand...

Granted, but the OP makes a good point. And I suppose it depends on your take of what a Forum like this is meant to achieve.

Is it meant to be a free replacement for Google Answers to solve simple problems that one could easily solve themselves with a small amount of effort? Or is it meant to be a place where Developers can come and collaborate and improve their skills and be involved in proper development/architecture discussions? Find better/more efficient/more elegant, scalable, <inser cliched adjective here> solutions to problems?

Personally I think it should be the later, but that's just me...
 
well it is a solution like it not, i supposed i should have added a silly disclaimer too :erm::rolleyes:

anyways i agree with the op, but this has been long coming and just definity not just NOW all of a sudden. i see it work, i see it in other places in life- most people out there can't seem to do the basic 101 survival; just think a little and if thinking does not work then go look around and see if you can find the solution yourself, but as i've stated in one of my replys this morning its easier to follow and to lead or do a bit of exploration yourself.
 
Last edited:
Necuno said:
well it is a solution like it not, i supposed i should have added a silly disclaimer too :erm::rolleyes:

anyways i agree with the op, but this has been long coming and just definity not just NOW all of a sudden. i see it work, i see it in other places in life- most people out there can't seem to do the basic 101 survival; just think a little and if thinking does not work then go look around and see if you can find the solution yourself, but as i've stated in one of my replys this morning its easier to follow and to lead or do a bit of exploration yourself.
Click to expand...
Yes, it was a solution; it was simply not one I was willing to accept. Thanks for your input though: straight-forward as always. :)
 
Ah dudes... welcome to the web!
It is what it is that aint gonna change and once this batch passes there will be a slew of new noobz going thru the same motions, help em or ignore em and try not to come off to aged and curmudgenly in the process... you may as well be shouting at young punks to get off your lawn.
 
SlinkyMike said:
Ah dudes... welcome to the web!
It is what it is that aint gonna change and once this batch passes there will be a slew of new noobz going thru the same motions, help em or ignore em and try not to come off to aged and curmudgenly in the process... you may as well be shouting at young punks to get off your lawn.
Click to expand...
Yes, but the question remains: how best to help them besides simply acting as a human search engine. I'm certainly not going to ignore them.
 
Raithlin said:
WARNING: This thread may lead to flaming, cussing, ranting, general offense and, well, it may not. :erm:

I'm noticing a trend here, and I'm sure the senior devs on this forum will agree (at least to some extent). I'm noticing questions popping up (often by beginners) that are easily resolved by a simple online search (Bing/Google/Yahoo! - take your pick). That saddens me, and it also irritates me. Developers spend their lives updating their knowledge base online (unless you're into COBOL :p), and using a search engine to solve a problem has become a necessary skill. The irritation steps in when I go and type a few keywords into my chosen engine, and find the perfect solution on the first page. It's time to teach junior devs how to search.

To that end, I suggest posting search result URLs as answers to appropriate questions - possibly with a pointer to the right article to look at. It's the only way we're gonna get beginners encouraged enough to search for themselves, while answering the question at hand. It may also teach some of us search engine lingo (the more advanced queries, anyway).

Thoughts? Flames? Rants? Go ahead. Make my day. :cool:
Click to expand...

Why do you keep on complaining about helping others... Just don't do it anymore or keep quite? :eek::mad:
 
Raithlin said:
Yes, but the question remains: how best to help them besides simply acting as a human search engine. I'm certainly not going to ignore them.
Click to expand...

you could always answer cryptically like for example

Code: 
;()puıqɐʇɐp.uoıʇɐʇuǝɯnɔopɹopuǝʌʌb//            

;(xǝpuıʇıpǝʍǝu.ǝ)ʍoɹʇıpǝuoıʇɐʇuǝɯnɔopdnʇǝs            

;xǝpuıʇıpǝʍǝu.ǝ = xǝpuıʇıpǝ.uoıʇɐʇuǝɯnɔopɹopuǝʌʌb            
ʇıpǝ ʇɹɐʇs//

or

Code: 
;()PUıQɐʇɐP.UOıʇɐʇUǝɯNɔOPɹOPUǝʌʌB//            

;(XǝPUıʇıPǝʍǝU.ǝ)ʍOɹʇıPǝUOıʇɐʇUǝɯNɔOPDNʇǝS            

;XǝPUıʇıPǝʍǝU.ǝ = XǝPUıʇıPǝ.UOıʇɐʇUǝɯNɔOPɹOPUǝʌʌB            
ʇıPǝ ʇɹɐʇS//

or
//start edit
gvVendorDocumentation.EditIndex = e.NewEditIndex;

SetupDocumentationEditRow(e.NewEditIndex);

//gvVendorDocumentation.DataBind();

or

Code: 
//todo: start coding here
//        set index
//        do things
//        databind
 
UPFRONT DISCLAIMER: Slight venting to follow. Read with caution.

I have to agree with Raithlin and dequadin here... I find it quite tiresome to read the same old "What payment gateway should I use for my online shop?" topic over and over again. It seems like there's a new one jumping up every month. Newbie developers should learn how to do a quick search in a search engine and, if they don't find any results (which is 99.9% improbable), they should resort to forum use. Even then they should first search the forum to see if the topic at hand has already been discussed and answered.

I visit this specific forum religiously, multiple times a day. It's listed as my first link in my FF Bookmarks Toolbar! I generally get quite excited at the sight of a new topic being discussed, but these days I seem to be disappointed at the amount of old topics (but new threads) being rehashed. I enjoy helping out n00bs every now and then, but the quality of questions asked when clearly a search engine wasn't consulted first seems to be on the rise.

*sigh*

EOV

Glossary:

EOV: "End Of Vent" for those who couldn't figure it out. Did you at least try and Google it?
 
Nokkie said:
Why do you keep on complaining about helping others... Just don't do it anymore or keep quite? :eek::mad:
Click to expand...
Ok, first off, see the disclaimer at the top of the thread.

Secondly, I want to help others - I think I've made that clear - but I'm disappointed at the manner in which beginners appear to simply pop on the forum and ask, when on searching it becomes clear that either the effort wasn't put into a search, or was done incorrectly (not using the right keywords, perhaps?). Either way, the knowledge needs to be passed on, i.e. search first, or search properly. By posting the search url that returns answers, we are approaching both problems while simultaneously providing an answer to the question at hand.
 
or start a rule that if you ask:

"How do i do x in y with z"

the OP has to add to his question

"I've read on abc.com that if you do this and that then a happens, but i'm not exactly looking for a, looking for x?"
 
Bizkit87 said:
or start a rule that if you ask:

"How do i do x in y with z"

the OP has to add to his question

"I've read on abc.com that if you do this and that then a happens, but i'm not exactly looking for a, looking for x?"
Click to expand...
That's a good idea. It happens often on Stack Overflow (but that's a forum of note for developers, and bad questions get shot down quickly), and works well.
 
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