HDTV Tv Cards

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ZuBS_

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Does anyone know about HDTV tv cards for the pc, would it be possible to watch hdtv on our pc screen if we have the card?
 
So if we get a hdtv movie on dvd, it would work like on an expensive hdtv compliant television?
 
not 100% sure about that, but those cards will let you view TV in true HDTV. Im sure if you google around you will find the answer. But I think that you would need a graphic card that support HDTV to view a DVD in HDTV, but thats just a guess.
 
ZuBS_ said:
Does anyone know about HDTV tv cards for the pc, would it be possible to watch hdtv on our pc screen if we have the card?
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None of the local providers (i.e. DSTV, SABC, eTV) broadcast in HDTV, just having a HDTV capable TV card will not result in you receiving HDTV.

ZuBS_ said:
So if we get a hdtv movie on dvd, it would work like on an expensive hdtv compliant television?
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Even the lowest quality HDTV content is of a higher quality than DVD is able to store so it's not possible to get HDTV content on DVD's, it is however possible to get HDTV content on HD-DVD and Blue-Ray Discs.

HDTV comes in three flavours, namely 720p, 1080i and 1080p. Most of the shows recorded in HDTV format (see here) are done so in 1080i. Recordings done at 1080i provide a resolution of 1920 x 1080 pixels which is significantly higher than what DVD's can provide at 768 x 576 pixels.

To achieve the highest quality viewing experience there and two distinct but inter-related aspect to consider, that being the input as well as the output.

Firstly lets talk about the output, the best possible output from a computer is via a graphics cards DVI connector, most mid to high end graphics cards bought within the past two years should have a DVI connector.

Generally the DVI connector is used to connect to a PC LCD monitor but it can also be used to connect to the DVI or HDMI connector on a TV monitor (i.e. Plasma or LCD) or projector. The main difference between a DVI connector and a HDMI connector is that DVI only carries the video feed while HDMI carries the audio and video feed, DVI to HDMI cables are available. One thing to note when purchasing a Plasma or LCD monitor is that almost all monitors with HDMI connectors support HDCP while most older monitors with DVI connectors do not support HDCP. HDCP is a DRM method broadcasters will be using to prevent content from being copied, monitors that don't support it will either not be able to view the content or will only be able to view the content at a reduced quality.

Now onto the input, as stated above none of the local providers broadcast HDTV content as yet so all you are able to do is try and achieve the best quality from the what is provided. Your best bet is to try and keep the content in digital format every step along the way. Making use of a TV capture card results in the signal being converted into analog format (e.g. using the DSTV composite output) which when plugged into a TV capture card gets it converted back into a digital format with a quality drop along the way. By using a DVB-S card you are able to record DSTV in it's raw MPEG-2 format with no quality loss, the suggested "DNTV Live! QuattroS" is even able to receive input from DVB-T which will be available in SA within the next 2 years.

Further to retaining the quality as suggested above, you are also able to refine and scale the quality of the output which is useful when being viewed on a PC, Plasma or LCD monitor. Although it's possible to purchase a stand alone scaler, since we already have the PC receiving the content it might as well scale it as well. DScaler is a free program which captures video, processes it, and scales it for output to a projector or monitor and combined with the above methods it'll provide the highest quality TV viewing experience in SA (that is until HDTV becomes available).
 
You just gotta love TivoZA, he's a true icon!, the technical savvy and damn good reply's just beat me senseles, I don't know what the hell you are talking about, but I'll learn, keep posting on the forums TivoZA, you make my eyes hurt with the flood of text, but it's worth it :)
 
Yeah I agree, I've learnt something from EVERY single post of TivoZA...plus he's friendly too. Keep 'em coming TivoZA. :)
 
tivoza, good post.

I wouldve replied last night, but the amount of confusion that needed unravelling in this thread made me depressed and my fingers tired from typing. I take my hat off to you.
 
Ap0c said:
Tivo, would this work in SA?
http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/laptops/artec-t14a-usb-tv-tuner-hdtv-on-a-laptop-188648.php
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Unfortunatly not for two reasons. The first being that broadcast signals in SA are in PAL and this unit only works with NTSC. The second reason is that although Sentech are launching a DTT service, they'll be using the DVB-T standard as used in Europe and not the ATSC standard as used in North America and by this device.

Looking at Artec product listings, they do have a DVB-T version which may work. Keep in mind that at present there has been no major roll-out of DTT in SA (see here & here) and even if you live in an area which is able to receive the test broadcasts they may be encrypted.
 
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Thanks for the help - you know your stuff ;)
 
TivoZA said:
HDTV comes in three flavours, namely 720p, 1080i and 1080p. Most of the shows recorded in HDTV format (see here) are done so in 1080i. Recordings done at 1080i provide a resolution of 1920 x 1080 pixels which is significantly higher than what DVD's can provide at 768 x 576 pixels.
Click to expand...

Informative post, TivoZA!

How does that reconcile to the supposedly "HD ready" LCD TV's currently being marketed here. These only have a 1366x738 resolution. Does that mean they won't deliver HD TV quality content at full quality?
 
tivoza, if I get the s300 or s350, can I tape a dstv channel that's not "on"? I know that one satellite can support two decoders, so can my tv card act as a decoder in itself and map each channel independantly? Currently my compro x350 sees the dstv channel as just one feed. In other words, if I get a s3xx, will I be able to tape mtv if my dad's watching cnn without getting a new decoder?
 
Gatecrasher said:
How does that reconcile to the supposedly "HD ready" LCD TV's currently being marketed here. These only have a 1366x738 resolution.
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I suspect the resolution is 1366x768, these monitors provide native 720p (1280x720) support. The area outside the 1280x720 is what's known as overscan and it's contents aren't displayed on screen. The reason why 768 vertical was chosen was that WXGA (Wide XGA) monitors had a 15:9 aspect ratio, in order to get this to support the TV aspect ratio of 16:9 they made it slightly wider resulting in a resolution of 1366x768.

As for the overscan, TV's need to provide this to maintain compatibility with pre-digital technology, old CRT TV's throw away as much as 3% of the picture edges. Overscan is not necessarily a bad thing as the unused capacity is usually used by the "Vertical blanking interval" which can also be used to carry data such as teletext and closed captioning.

Gatecrasher said:
Does that mean they won't deliver HD TV quality content at full quality?
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1366x768 monitors can deliver HDTV quality with native 720p (1280x720) support, while 1080i (1920x1080) content will be scaled down to and output at 1280x720.

Now comes to debate of 720p vs 1080i and which format provides better quality. 720p outputs 60 frames per second, each frame with a resolution of 1280x720 pixels. 1080i also outputs 60 frames per second, each of it's frames has a resolution of 1920x540. Confused? That's because 1080i output is interlaced, the first frame provides lines 1, 3, 5, ... and the second frame provides lines 2, 4, 6, ... Together these two frames form the 1920x1080 pixels and as such 1080i is listed as having 30 frames per second.

So which is better 720p vs 1080i? There have been many arguments over this topic and different articles proclaim different winners. What is clear is that sport and fast moving action is better on 720p due to it's progressive (non interlaced) frames with their higher frames per second reducing motion blur, on the other hand 1080i provides a far cleaner, clearer & more detailed picture due to its higher resolution.

So what TV should you get? Well that depends on what you plan watching as well as where you will be getting your content from. HD Movies (i.e. HD-DVD & Blu-Ray) have the benefit that they can be offered on the format most favorable to their content, in most cases it seems as if 1080i is the format of choice. The real question is what will the local broadcasters be using? Hopefully the answer is a combination of both. Ignoring the fact that 720p requires a marginally lower bandwidth then 1080i, it seems likely that the majority of the local HDTV broadcasts will be done at 1080i. Most HDTV content in the US is broadcast at 1080i and down-sampling it for broadcast here would not achieve any of the benefits that 720p offers. What the local broadcasters are going to have to consider is how they broadcast the local sporting fixtures and more importantly how they will be broadcasting the 2010 World Cup Soccer. The 2006 games were broadcast at 720p but by 2010 it might not be acceptable to broadcast anything less then 1080p.

Whatever you do, when looking for a HDTV, check the resolution. Although TV's brandishing the "HDTV ready" or "HDTV compatible" logo may support 720p and 1080i input, many have a lower then 1280x720 output resolution and they'll scale the picture down to their native format (which may be as low as 480p).
 
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to be labelled hdready the set must fulfill these requirements, plain and simple:
1) The minimum resolution of the display must be 720 lines in a widescreen aspect ratio.
2) The display must accept an HD signal via an analogue YPbPr (component video) connection and either DVI or HDMI digital connections.
3) The HD inputs must accept both the standard high definition formats:
• 1,280 x 720 @ 50 & 60Hz Progressive (720p)
• 1,920 x 1,080 @ 50 & 60Hz Interlaced (1080i)
4) The DVI or HDMI digital input must be HDCP compliant.

go read here:
http://www.trustedreviews.com/article.aspx?page=7571&head=0
 
ohmshalone said:
if I get the s300 or s350, can I tape a dstv channel that's not "on"? I know that one satellite can support two decoders, so can my tv card act as a decoder in itself and map each channel independantly? Currently my compro x350 sees the dstv channel as just one feed. In other words, if I get a s3xx, will I be able to tape mtv if my dad's watching cnn without getting a new decoder?
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The Compro S300 and S350 are designed for "free to air" channels, in SA this equates to receiving BTV (Botswana TV) and some religious channels. If the card is supported by SoftCAM software (e.g. ProgDVB) you would be able to connect a smart card reader and by inserting your DSTV smart card into the reader you would then be able to decrypt the DSTV channels. Since the Compro satellite cards only have one DVB-S tuner each, you would still only be able to watch one DSTV channel at a time.

In order to be able to watch two DSTV channels simultaneously, you could either try going the dual DVB-S tuner route as discussed here or simply get a DSTV Dual View decoder and connect your Compro X350 to one of the outputs. The Compro X350 is nothing more then a TV Tuner so aside from viewing DSTV output and SABC/eTV broadcasts there is little more that can be done with it.

As discussed in the "PVR questions" thread, with DSTV's frequent repeats and an intelligent EPG it's possible to automatically record almost all the shows you would possibly wish to view ;)
 
So if we DO have a dual-view, do I just need to buy a cable to run straight to my card: now acting as the second decoder w/ no other strings attached (extra fees, etc)? How much is a dual view decoder and what type of wire will I need? Thanks for your help. BTW, my power-up feature, the main reason I bought a compro, is erratic and hardly works. dstv, too can only schedule 1 week in advance :(
 
TivoZA said:
Whatever you do, when looking for a HDTV, make sure to get a TV that says "HDTV ready". TV's brandishing the "HDTV ready" logo are guaranteed to have native support for either 720p or 1080i. TV's claiming to be "HDTV compatible" may support 720p and 1080i input but usually have a lower then 1280x720 resolution and they'll scale the picture down to their native format (which may be as low as 480p). If getting a TV 40 inches or larger, it's recommended to go for a monitor with native support for 1080i (or preferable 1080p).
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Thanks for the heads-up.
 
ohmshalone said:
So if we DO have a dual-view, do I just need to buy a cable to run straight to my card: now acting as the second decoder w/ no other strings attached (extra fees, etc)?
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The Compro X350 would provide a means in which to capture the DSTV output allowing your PC to act as a TV, it doesn't act as a decoder but since that's already done by the DSTV decoder it's not an issue. The only other "string" is that you need a device to change channels on your DSTV decoder (see here for more details).

ohmshalone said:
How much is a dual view decoder and what type of wire will I need?
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Makro sells the dual view decoder for R1999, they charge R1299 for the Dish, dual LNB and installation. The price they offer is pretty much standard, if you watch the papers for specials you may be able to save R200 - R300.

HiFi corp often sell the DualView for R1799 but there installers don't have the best record. A better bet is to take a quote from HiFi corp to Game, Game promises to beat any price plus give you an extra 10% of the difference so you'd save R220 going that route :D

As for the cable, you can either go with the composite or higher quality s-video cable to carry the picture, in either case you'll need to make use of RCA's cables (red & white) to carry the audio.
 
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