Suggestion - MyBroadband Regulations - let's show ICASA how it's done!!!

Alkazar

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Further to the article (http://www.mybroadband.co.za/nephp/?m=show&id=4126) and forum thread (http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php?t=52673) relating to ICASA revisiting the ADSL regulations, I would like to make the following suggestion:

If ICASA can't do their job properly maybe they need to be shown how it's done. MyBroadband (MyADSL), comprised of users of all broadband services in SA, and with input from a number of the broadband providers and ISP's, is in the perfect position to draw up their own set of regulations, publish them, and send them to ICASA (and DoC?) as a framework for the final official regulations.

Submitting numerous suggestions, complaints, etc. to ICASA just gives them more work to do which they don't seem able to handle, so we will still be waiting for decent, workable regulations for months or years to come.

Providing them with a complete workable set of Broadband Regulations (not just ADSL regulations for reasons set out below) drawn up with input from all stakeholders, we may just be able to speed up the whole process.

I may be naive but I really do think that this option, combined with the publicity it can generate, can be more effective than just sending ICASA individual submissions.

MyBroadband is in the perfect position to do this, because MyBroadband

1) is a consumer group representing the interests of all broadband users in SA;

2) has members that are very knowledgeable of broadband;

3) has members that are lawyers that can draw up the regulations in good legalese without any loopholes;

4) can invite forum submissions from all its members, the public, the ISP's, the Broadband providers, and any other interested parties;

5) can set a deadline for all submissions which will then be used as input for the regulations drawn up by a panel selected by MyBroadband members;

6) can set a deadline for the panel to draw up the regulations;

7) can then publish these regulations on the internet and forward them to ICASA.

The whole process can proceed in a very transparent manner where all role players can monitor progress. (Thanks kaspaas!)

Why Broadband Regulations and not just ADSL Regulations?

ADSL is just one form of broadband internet access. Due to the situation with Telkom other broadband services have become major players in SA and also need to be regulated.

Additionally, Telkom are also planning to introduce other forms of broadband access and if they are only prevented from extorting users of ADSL they will then extort the users of these other services instead.

Telkom provide wholesale bandwidth for all forms of broadband access, not only ADSL, as they are currently the only supplier of bandwidth, especially international bandwidth.

There should be a holistic approach to regulating the entire broadband arena and a leveling of the playing field for all providers of broadband internet access.

If ICASA can't do the job for us then maybe we need to do it ourselves. What do you think?

(Thanks Raithlin for suggesting I start this thread!)
 
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I disagree on broadband.

ADSL is the basic commodity - other forms of broadband are supposed to be luxuries.

Due to local structures by Telkom, 3G etc became comparatively affordable. The competitive market for these forms of internet access is well established were even I have two cellphone simcards - one for voice and one for data.

Stick to ADSL.
 
I disagree on broadband.

ADSL is the basic commodity - other forms of broadband are supposed to be luxuries.

Due to local structures by Telkom, 3G etc became comparatively affordable. The competitive market for these forms of internet access is well established were even I have two cellphone simcards - one for voice and one for data.

Stick to ADSL.

Agreed re 3g - however wireless as a last-mile bandwidth provider (as opposed to copper) could certainly (and does ala iBurst) compete favourably with adsl in ZA.
 
ADSL is the basic commodity - other forms of broadband are supposed to be luxuries.

The operative word is "supposed". Many people in this country have no choice but to get broadband services like iBurst, MyWireless, 3G etc. as theyhave no other choice. When something is the only option you have for getting broadband access it is no longer a luxury!

Any regulations should not control the final retail cost of a particular broadband service as the different services have different infrastructure etc., but regulations relating to the wholesale cost of bandwidth, service levels, local bandwidth, etc. should not only be linked to ADSL as these apply to all broadband services.

Users of iBurst, MyWireless, etc. are also overcharged for bandwidth and are also entitled to minimum service levels and should also benefit from any reductions in bandwidth costs, unlimited local bandwidth, etc.

If the regulations are "ADSL Only" regulations and Telkom start providing wireless last-mile connections to their backbone instead of copper "strictly ADSL" connections (which they are planning to do), they will be able to bypass the regulations by claiming that the connections are not ADSL!

Neotel are also planning on providing broadband via wireless last-mile connections instead of copper and they will also be able to bypass any regulations that specifically state that they strictly apply to ADSL.
 
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My main suggestions will be.. and maybe a couple of ppl should email/fax this thru.

As a client to Telkom, and other ppl who use their lines/ISP or other ISP's.

The basics we want is this :

1. Uncapped local bandwidth (bare basic)
2. Much much Cheaper ADSL line rental costs (or no costs since we do pay for normal line rental wich is by definition the same line)
3. Bigger International caps with more relaxed capping system(eg. basic 20gig international cap, with a upto 30gig hardcap on international)

*I do realise that some country's have 30gig to 40gig basic cap for international, and all local data don't count towards your international. But remember this is South-Africa, and all things come in baby steps. maybe start with 10gig and work your way upto a uncapped system for a fixed amount*
 
The current ICASA regulations are too vague, full of loopholes, and do not address the main concerns of broadband users, ISP's, etc.

ICASA say they will revisit the regulations. I think the most important factors are:

Regulation of the wholesale cost of bandwidth to ADSL and wireless ISP's including IS, M-Web, WebAfrica, iBurst, Vodacom, etc.

Preventing a wholesaler of bandwidth from being a retailer of bandwidth in competition to the retailers they are supplying the bandwidth to.

Preventing a wholesaler of a broadband service from being a retailer of the same broadband service and dictating the packages and prices that the retailers (or resellers) of that service provide. (This also applies to iBurst and maybe other broadband services as well).

Preventing any provider of copper last-mile ADSL connections to a DSLAM from forcing the end-user to use their telephony service and charging a fee unrelated to the cost of providing the copper line and the connection to the DSLAM.

I really think that instead of flooding ICASA with suggestions etc. which they obviously can't handle, MyBroadband should show ICASA how it's done and draw up our own set of regulations with input from all members and then submit those regulations as our combined suggestion.

What do you think and what would you like to see in the regulations?
 
I would like to see:

A reason or threat given to Telkom as to what would happen were they not to comply with these regulations (as opposed to the August ICASA regulations). Perhaps a hefty monetary fine for each week the standards set down in the regulations are not put into place (not including points of the regulations that require a certain amount of time to put into place - which should be given a deadline accordingly).

Complete abolishment of the ADSL "Line rental cost" as, after the initial install costs, there are no additional monthly costs to the telephony operator for offering the ADSL service.

Removal of any port prioritisation (I know this has already been stated, but its obviously not going to happen - good job, ICASA).

No stranglehold on international speeds (ie. getting 350kbit/sec international download on an apparent 4mbit ADSL line)

A minimum ADSL speed offering of 512kb at the price of the current minimum speed offering (348kb).

Sorry I am just mentioning mainly-ADSL oriented things, but I'm not too clued up on the wireless side of things as I have never used any wireless offerings.
 
Maybe the funds received over the R50,000 http://www.tectonic.co.za/tag.php can help to pay someone/some people to to acctually do this/drive the process? Maybe its time to throw some money at the problem?

Might be worthwhile networking with the tectonic folks to get this thing going? If we put forth our version of proposed "regulations" like Alkazar is saying instead of flooding ICASA with complaints again, they might respond more positively? What says RPM? :D
 
Might be worthwhile networking with the tectonic folks to get this thing going? If we put forth our version of proposed "regulations" like Alkazar is saying instead of flooding ICASA with complaints again, they might respond more positively? What says RPM? :D
Now we are talking. Who is quaified to do this and needs a job/extra cash? Debbie2?
 
I agree on sticking with ADSL. The reasoning is that if and when good ADSL regs come out, and Telkom\Neotel abide by them, all other broadband services will inevitabely have to fine tune their prices and QoS in line with the new ADSL offerings, as ADSL is the dominant service, and all the other providers will have to keep up.

Creating regulations for all broadband will be very onerous and ambiguous, ADSL is the only way to go IMO
 
My suggestion is to make a fool-proof ADSL set of regulations first and use it as a base for good broadband regulation which is clearly necessary as well.
 
Suggestions

Alkazar, this is a great idea. I hope we can try and set some things right that ICASA messed up.

Apart from what the other people said, I'd like the following problems addressed:

1. That your local bandwidth doesn't count towards your International bandwidth. (I've never seen anybody comment on this. Is it impossible?)

2. The 24 hour resets must be done away with. (I can't take it when you play a game and *BOOM* there goes your connection)

3. Speed upgrades not only for 1mb customers (I'm not going to talk about the 192k offering. That shouldn't even have existed...)

I can't think of any more things that haven't been said, except PLEASE don't make the document ambiguous! We can't afford to mess up this second blessing.

MyADSL must try and do something!

Power to the people! :D
 
wow... four days without a post or any feedback... Broadband users can only complain and not try and better the situation. WD peeps
 
I never even saw this thread :/

I think we all know the basics of what changes must be made and what costs doen away with. Maybe we can use the ICASA regulations as a guidline and improve on what they've said?

Where are all the people who are wanting action? I fully agree that if we keep relying on ICASA to speak for us then things will just continue as they have.

Where is all the action @?

I will hapilly do anything possible, so just tell what I can do and I will DEIFNATELY help out where I can!
 
Everyone complains about ICASA sitting on their backsides doing nothing???

I make what I and a few others think is a suggestion worth further investigation and what happens? Nothing!!!

Reminds me of ICASA and the DoC.

What right have we to complain about others not doing anything if we are not even prepared to do something ourselves?

Let's grab the torch and achieve something, people!
 
I think this is the point in the meeting when everyone looks down at their shoes and hopes someone else will put up their hand....

An excellent idea and I'm sure everyone will cheer on the results, and get involved as the project develops.

I'm afraid the subject matter is a bit out of my field of expertise, but I have done a similar exercise on BEE with a forum of business owners which worked well and produced a mind-blowing result.

Ideally, a seperate sub-forum would help. It helps group the information. Start with the existing regulations. Break it down into parts and start a thread on each. First post can quote the relevant existing regs.

Then starting questions:
What are the strengths?
What are the weakness?

Sometimes it's the standard set.
Sometimes it's enforcement.

For example, and without having read these regs (please forgive me but I work with enough regs already), the impression I get reading around here is that the penalties for non-compliance are not hard wired into the regs.

A restaurant faces the prospect of a minimum fine of R20 000.00. This is an example of a hard-wired penalty for non-compliance.

A company faces a fine of up to R500 000.00 for non-compliance with EE legislation.

Set standards.
Set penalties.

It's not the end of solving the problem, but it does inhibit a lot of "fudging".

To be taken seriously, you must seek formal recognition as a consumer representative body. Formally register MyADSL (or an organisation established for this purpose, with MyADSL as the communication medium) as a consumer representative body with ICASA and the DoC. This is a relatively simple document that profiles the organisation and request that you are consulted on all matters pertaining to your area of interest.

There may be a request for a copy of the constitution of the representative organisation.... which is why there may be a need to establish a seperate association.

And no - I'm not putting up my hand. Just trying to help the enthusiasts with a little direction.

Best of luck.
 
MyADSL has members with the knowledge and ability to draw up a foolproof set of workable regulations and to show ICASA how it is done. This can then be sent to ICASA as the combined suggestion/comment/etc. of all MyADSL members.

If the regulator cannot do it for us let us do it for ourselves!
 
I'm offering to help where I can, but I'm a theatre technician... Not much of a lawyer or politician.

Anything I can do, let me know.
 
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