Beware your ADSL line can turn you into a “criminal”

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MrSmith

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I just had a call from the SAPS regarding a case of “bandwidth” theft.

Somebody has laid a charge with the SAPS claiming that somebody logged on to the internet using their ISP username and password in July 2006 for six hours thereby stealing their bandwidth.

SAPS subpoenaed Telkom’s records and they apparently show the login coming from my home line. :eek:
I have no knowledge for this and can not believe the login can from my line as my ADSL WiFi router is only configured to connect to my WebAfrica account.

Jason (very helpful) at WebAfrica has my line port logged into my account at WebAfrica during this alleged period.

WTF - Now it looks like I will have to go and make a statement to SAPS.
Has this happened to anybody else?
Does anybody have any advise for me?
 
Question, how big is the coverage (for lack of a beter terminology) of the Wifi router? Is it not possible for someone to connect (via your phone line) if they are close enough? (I'm thinking apartments, townhouse complex?) Once again, just a question, I have no knowledge of Wifi and such.
Or has Telkom not made a stuff up with the phone records?
Otherwise, thats a k*k one buddy!
 
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If you were connected to WA, then the only way to be connected to Telkom at the same time would be through multiple PPP connections (is that what they are called?!). Does your router support this?

Cheers, Nick
 
Nickste said:
If you were connected to WA, then the only way to be connected to Telkom at the same time would be through multiple PPP connections (is that what they are called?!). Does your router support this?

Cheers, Nick
Click to expand...
I think PPP is dialup, what I do for shareing my line with my neighbors is use PPPoE (over Ethernet) - but if the router is plugged straight into the line and initiating the connection itself then there is no way that someone else could have logged on through that line

only if you have a router set to bridged mode (or seperate modem with multiple ports) would someone be able to connect with another account - so if you do something like what I do with modem going to each persons own router, but instead of a router to a wifi router then someone could connect to the network and initiate a pppoe connection

ya i know this post is a mess, but i am tired ;)
 
o ****, i wonder when they going to come knocking on my door. Its going to be like 100hours+ and 30gigs+ LoL
 
kilps said:
I think PPP is dialup, what I do for shareing my line with my neighbors is use PPPoE (over Ethernet) - but if the router is plugged straight into the line and initiating the connection itself then there is no way that someone else could have logged on through that line
Click to expand...

AFAIK most routers allow you to connect a "dialup" pppoe connection from a workstation while simultaneously establishing their own connection.

Certainly i have been able to do this with both the Telkom Marconi WiFi and the Telkom 5102G routers.
 
mikef said:
AFAIK most routers allow you to connect a "dialup" pppoe connection from a workstation while simultaneously establishing their own connection.

Certainly i have been able to do this with both the Telkom Marconi WiFi and the Telkom 5102G routers.
Click to expand...
Oh - I didn't know that - I'm using a netgear...
 
A friend of mine had the same problem although not the same scale you are having. She just had her account terminated but the ISP, since they happend to be at the same ISP. What I was able to figure out at that time is the login servers use some port ID, called NasPortID that apparently is unique for each ADSL port, although i doubt this. As for the netgear wireless just set it to use access control. It's a bit more of an effort if you have a lot of new wireless devices connecting to the access point but a lot more secure.
But i think they can't do much about making a case against you. It's just annoying to have to go and make a statement now.
 
I am running a Netgear DG834G Wireless ADSL Firewall Router (modem & WiFi router all in one).
I guess my neighbours could pick up my signal, but I have changed the router password and have encrypted the signal.
I think Telkom must have screwed up the line port or something.
 
MrSmith said:
SAPS subpoenaed Telkom’s records and they apparently show the login coming from my home line. :eek:
I have no knowledge for this and can not believe the login can from my line as my ADSL WiFi router is only configured to connect to my WebAfrica account.
Click to expand...

Assumming your ADSL WiFi was setup to allow simultaneous bridge and route mode connections it is possible that somehow a second connection was made over your line. This could even possibly have been done by someone hacking into your WiFi network.

I do not believe you can be held responsible unless it could somehow be proved that such a connection was made by yourself or by someone under your control.
 
If u postees knew anything about netgear routers ud know u cant run bridge and normal mode at the same time.
 
Even if Telkom hasn't stuffed up and it actually is your line, they can't prove it was you doing it (duh - since you didn't). This is helped significantly by the testimony of WebAfrica.

A pain in the arse, to be sure, but there's no way they can succesfully prosecute.
 
Well I can think of a whole host of reasons for them go have got this wrong.

1) when looking up the ports and tracking it back to you, perhaps a simple as a typo, or incorrect records. Perhaps someone else had the port at the time and you got it later? Did Telkom do any work on your line between the date of this issue and now?

2) It could even be that 2 ports on the DSLAM are mis-wired and its actually your neighbors port. Does the port ID you see on Webafrica agree to the port ID reported to SAPS? Is the port ID reported to SAPS indeed the port ID of the complainant?

3) possibility is that the data that was logged was in fact corrupted due to either a bug in the BRAS, the RADIUS server or a very slight disk corruption to the data stored. Would be interesting to know if all the usual start/stop entries show the same port number and/or if there was a flood of data received on the server at the same time, as would be the case if something was down.

4) some kind of clip on fraud to test out adsl accounts

5) If the complainant is on the same exchange as you, perhaps telkom was working in the area and temporarily misconnected the lines.
 
MrSmith said:
... Somebody has laid a charge with the SAPS claiming that somebody logged on to the internet using their ISP username and password in July 2006 for six hours thereby stealing their bandwidth.

SAPS subpoenaed Telkom’s records and they apparently show the login coming from my home line.
Click to expand...
The first thing I'd suggest is that you consult your legal advisor wrt to how Telkom / SAPS / The Complainant intends to charge you with the 'bandwidth theft' by proving you knew The Complainant's username and password. The rest could be accounted for by anything from a technical glitch, to Telkom maintenance, to ISP bungling, to nefarious hacker activity. However, without you knowing the username and password (and they would have to somehow prove you had access to that information btw) I don't see how you could even intentionally 'steal' someone else's bandwidth.
 
Just something else. I remeber someone posting a network notice a few weeks or maybe a month or so back about telkom moving some DSLAMs which would result in those pordID's changing, so it might be that you are currently connected to that specific port now but at the time the guys "bandwith was stolen" someone else was connected to that port.
 
countersue them for millions - "Telkom had falsely accused me of criminal deed and had damaged my spotless reputation"
 
Hmmm seems people are starting to lay charges on people hacking accounts... Ive spoken to quite a few people in IRC that have had a phone call from the police..... But ye guys hacking aint kewl..... BW is expensive so dont steal it...
 
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