Vista security discussions off to bad start

So Naughty Antivirus and McCrappee moaned because they cant program a proper antivirus even with all those $'s they earn, while other companies can?

supersunbird said:

So Naughty Antivirus and McCrappee moaned because they cant program a proper antivirus even with all those $'s they earn, while other companies can?

Click to expand...

That is not the issue.

Windows Live Onecare is now the second best selling home security package at retail ... pricing is very aggressive (Amazon is selling it for $20 for 3 computers for a year) and it carries the Microsoft branding and they are now busy with their commerical offering of this called "Antigen".

Who do you think will people buy .. Microsoft or some third party offering ???.

Symantec and McAfee are going to be "Netscaped".

tibby.dude said:

That is not the issue.

Windows Live Onecare is now the second best selling home security package at retail ... pricing is very aggressive (Amazon is selling it for $20 for 3 computers for a year) and it carries the Microsoft branding and they are now busy with their commerical offering of this called "Antigen".

Who do you think will people buy .. Microsoft or some third party offering ???.

Symantec and McAfee are going to be "Netscaped".

Click to expand...

Didn't know about Onecare being out, but since its sold at a price, its not really like IE/Netscape.

People need to download AVG, its free!

At the end of the day, could Microsoft do any worse that Symantec or McAffee??? Even if the One Care package isnt the greatest, it will probably still be an improvement on the other two, so at the end of the day, the consumer is going to be benefiting.

And those of us who aren't n00bs will use another antivirus, like Nod, AVG or something else, that offers better protection.

So McAfee and Symantec want to run code in the kernel? Yeah, I'm sure that with their reputations for stable, reliable software, it'll make Vista even more stable!

Claymore said:

So McAfee and Symantec want to run code in the kernel? Yeah, I'm sure that with their reputations for stable, reliable software, it'll make Vista even more stable!

Click to expand...

They want access to the core kernel data structures which you can atm under XP by using a kernel driver.

Vista's Patch Guard prevents that now and also Vista implements (ASLR - Address Space Layout Randomization) which loads core DLL's at different locations every time you boot which makes it very difficult for you to hook into them using existing techniques without an API from Microsoft.

Such an API exists but only covers hooking into the TCP/IP stack which is fine for packet inspection ala firewalls but they cannot sell their rather expensive value added "crud" without inserting their tentacles all over the OS.

These guys must go jump. MS is not in the business of keeping them in business and neither should we the users. Vista is not so that they can make Anti virus programs, it is for us to use. They must F$%! Off. I;m glad Vista behaves the way it does, they are not going to strong arm us into keeping their firms afloat.

IMO it is good if MS can kill the virus threats. It is IMO them killing holes in their own code. 3rd party antivirus companies don't have a right to exist. It is kind of like saying "there must be viruses to keep these guys in business". They will still have their security divisions...

I would love to see a virus free world. Truth is however, and we all know this, viruses will be there... EVEN FOR VISTA...

That may be true, but Vista is a step in the right direction. It is not our place to keep Symantec in business. They and other goons alike make money of people's misfortune and that will never be right or justified.

It is like saying we must keep crime levels high int he country to justify the police force. It's nonsense.

How long must we fold to the overly exaggerated threats of the security companies? They are the first ones to talk about holes in MS operating system, now they are demanding that there be holes so they have a space in the market to sell us what we essentially don't need.
How about adding to the Vista security instead of wanting it to change to suit their needs. It's B.S and it should not be tolerated. The EU much like many other organizations are somewhat anti-Microsoft under the guise of protecting the people which is not true.

By giving access to these security companies, they are making sure that Vista instead of being a revolutionary OS, takes a step back and re introduces the problems that were inherent in the previous Operating systems.
Just think of it numbers and time wise. NO ways Symantec and McAfee combined have spent as much on R&D for Vista as Microsoft has. That means they are more likely going to act as access points for vulnerabilities and not the OS itself. That manes they want to make sure they have a future and whose to say they won't intentionaly leave exploits so that we can keep buying their software.
it's nonsense.

Even from a performance point of view, display drivers and other drivers that used to reside in kernel space have had to let go of that and adopt a new way of accessing hardware/system resources. And this has provided tremendous speed improvements for the OS. Neither of those companies have ever made descent and resource light software, what happens when we give them access to the core of the system. The much talked about stability of Vista will disappear...

I say to hell with Symantec and McAfee, they want to stay in software, they must start making games, accounting packages or some other software, failing that they should sod off.