Navasolar Trolley Inverters

wingnut771 said:
Wasn't it on 24.4V, how can it shut down at a higher voltage?

Anyway, insignificant details. Test passed.

Yes, you can charge it now.
Click to expand...
no 24.7 . light went out so i ran there in the dark and was pressing buttons quickly to see the volts so it MAY have gone up by .1 or .2 in that time

so whats the bottom line ?
 
icantchooseone said:
no 24.7 . light went out so i ran there in the dark and was pressing buttons quickly to see the volts so it MAY have gone up by .1 or .2 in that time

so whats the bottom line ?
Click to expand...
icantchooseone said:
i think if i did that it would run into the AM , but i cant because i need lights on

just making notes : test was started at 4.33pm .

battery is currently 24.4 and its been on for 2 hours
Click to expand...
this is confusing
 
thanks for all the help


sorry with all the numbers i posted i forgot the numbers count where i said it was on 24.4 while still supplying power


so it obviously shut down at 24.4 OR LOWER and climbed back to 24.7 by the time i got to that screen

so if i keep the load to 100 watts or less ill get 8 hours +
 
wingnut771 said:
but dont worry about it. :P
Click to expand...
..... did you just tell yourself not to worry about it...

icantchooseone said:
thanks for all the help


sorry with all the numbers i posted i forgot the numbers count where i said it was on 24.4 while still supplying power


so it obviously shut down at 24.4 OR LOWER and climbed back to 24.7 by the time i got to that screen

so if i keep the load to 100 watts or less ill get 8 hours +
Click to expand...
okay got to ask tho

on what amount of watts did you go from Full bat to warning switch off what was the amount of hours that ran.

So i can calculate if it was accurate.

Casue yes they originally set for AGM batteries etc. so the display doesnt show correctly but the duration should be accurate or closest to it.
 
Tech Guy SA said:
..... did you just tell yourself not to worry about it...


okay got to ask tho

on what amount of watts did you go from Full bat to warning switch off what was the amount of hours that ran.

So i can calculate if it was accurate.

Casue yes they originally set for AGM batteries etc. so the display doesnt show correctly but the duration should be accurate or closest to it.
Click to expand...
Follow the thread then come back to me.
 
Tech Guy SA said:
i did for you i was asking if you crazy talking to yourself lol

and the other response is for @icantchooseone

​

Casue im only seeing a question with the 100watts under 8 hours. not a statement.
Click to expand...
It was just easier than editing.

You didnt read the thread then.

Start here:
icantchooseone

Post in thread 'Navasolar Trolley Inverters'

im testing now

tldr version:
400W load.
time: 2h15
inverter shut down automatically at an estimated 24V, then voltage bounced back to 24.7V-25V (hence the not worried comment comparing 24.4 to 24.7V discrepancy lost in translation numbers).
Test complete (from the results it was extrapolated that 100W load would last 8 hours)
No issues detected.

You can thank me now for solving your problem.
 
Tech Guy SA said:
..... did you just tell yourself not to worry about it...


okay got to ask tho

on what amount of watts did you go from Full bat to warning switch off what was the amount of hours that ran.

So i can calculate if it was accurate.

Casue yes they originally set for AGM batteries etc. so the display doesnt show correctly but the duration should be accurate or closest to it.
Click to expand...
test began at 4.33pm

battery died at 6.50pm

the average watts during that period was 400
 
denmendez65 said:
What is the problem?
Click to expand...
The problem is the supplier saying it has 1280Wh of capacity (technically true) but doesn't factor in the forced 24V cut off (20% SOC) but wait its worse because that 24V is under 400W load (voltage drop) so its closer to 25% soc, so 1280 x 0.75 = 960Wh.

960Wh/425W = 2.25 hours, which is 2h15 which is exactly on the nose how long the test lasted.

The 100W load will last even longer with the lower voltage drop allowing it to get closer to 20% soc.

So, there is no problem.
 
wingnut771 said:
The problem is the supplier saying it has 1280Wh of capacity (technically true) but doesn't factor in the forced 24V cut off (20% SOC) but wait its worse because that 24V is under 400W load (voltage drop) so its closer to 25% soc, so 1280 x 0.75 = 960Wh.

960Wh/425W = 2.25 hours, which is 2h15 which is exactly on the nose how long the test lasted.

The 100W load will last even longer with the lower voltage drop allowing it to get closer to 20% soc.

So, there is no problem.
Click to expand...
I wouldnt get too lost in the details. Its good enough. He can tinker and play with the inverter settings if he really wants to or if its possible. But I wouldnt sweat it. Seems fine enough to me.
 
denmendez65 said:
I wouldnt get too lost in the details. Its good enough. He can tinker and play with the inverter settings if he really wants to or if its possible. But I wouldnt sweat it. Seems fine enough to me.
Click to expand...
Yes, did you miss my stamp of approval?

Also, there are no settings to tinker with.
 
wingnut771 said:
Please explain how you get 1280Wh with a 24V (under 400W voltage drop load) inverter shut down voltage.
Click to expand...
denmendez65 said:
What is the problem?
Click to expand...
ja id like to know
wingnut771 said:
The problem is the supplier saying it has 1280Wh of capacity (technically true) but doesn't factor in the forced 24V cut off (20% SOC) but wait its worse because that 24V is under 400W load (voltage drop) so its closer to 25% soc, so 1280 x 0.75 = 960Wh.

960Wh/425W = 2.25 hours, which is 2h15 which is exactly on the nose how long the test lasted.

The 100W load will last even longer with the lower voltage drop allowing it to get closer to 20% soc.

So, there is no problem.
Click to expand...

k but lets say its 960w / 100w / discharge loss its about 7h 40m (approx)
960 /425w / discharge loss = about 1 hour 50m approx
you working it out without any discharging loss so it is inaccurate.
see below

lets do it like this forget about the voltage etc its going to drive you and readers nuts.
battery is 1280wh which is a 50ah at 25.6v (25.6x50= 1280Wh)
Remember there is about 25% discharging loss when discharging power this is not a navasolar thing its all of them my Delta 2 does the same disperses in heat etc so energy loss from heat and i donno how else to explain it just does that.

The 1280wh SOC 80% so yes technically speaking don't drop below 20% threshold which will cause the BMS to go HEY controller this battery is below required and controller goes HEY DISPLAY scream the alarm battery too low

Considering these inverters were for AGM etc it relies on voltage from the battery but lithium is controlled by the BMS.

BMS no like BMS no give. BMS happy BMS gives. happy BMS happy power.

also for anyone reading these
BP18-1012 (1kva) is 960Wh
Ti-1512 (1.5kva) is 1280Wh
BP18-3024 (3kva) 2560Wh
Ti-3024 (3kva) 2560Wh
Ti-3052 (3kva) is 5120Wh

Use the simple maths when calculating run times Wh divided by watts amount divided by discharge amount and IF its gel or led acid divide by 2 since Gel/Lead-acid should not go below 40-50% battery Capacity due to their lower voltages to operate) otherwise you going to kill the gel/lead-acid battery and close to impossible to recharge them.

So If anyone is reading this and has lets say a RCT MP-T1000 which has a 12v 100ah gel battery if you change it to a lithium battery with a built in BMS it will last longer on the run time not necessarily double but close to it.

12x100ah (technically 12.8 x100 = 1280) if using lithium instead of 12x100 = 1200wh divided by SOC = 600Wh unusable (APPROX)


Remember NOTHING electrical is a stable amount of constant power unless controlled which no appliance does.
Computer can be 65w but fluctuates 55-95w depending what it is doing (gaming is a lot higher up to if not 650W+)

there is also more to it technically but in lament terms basically this. a Fridge states 100w just remember cold starts can be 6x if not higher on cold starts, while a TV is a LOT less considering the fridge has a motor (even if its digital)

Lithium designed inverters like the Mecer 2kva (the oval shapped one ish) can DO down to close to 0% not exactly wise to do but it can do it. Ecoflow Power station can go to 0% as well technicians will state dont do it but i know it can (dont do it unles it happens but battery management can stop it to keep the battery healthy) also the best way to re-sync those batteries anyway.
 
Tech Guy SA said:
ja id like to know


k but lets say its 960w / 100w / discharge loss its about 7h 40m (approx)
960 /425w / discharge loss = about 1 hour 50m approx
you working it out without any discharging loss so it is inaccurate.
see below

lets do it like this forget about the voltage etc its going to drive you and readers nuts.
battery is 1280wh which is a 50ah at 25.6v (25.6x50= 1280Wh)
Remember there is about 25% discharging loss when discharging power this is not a navasolar thing its all of them my Delta 2 does the same disperses in heat etc so energy loss from heat and i donno how else to explain it just does that.

The 1280wh SOC 80% so yes technically speaking don't drop below 20% threshold which will cause the BMS to go HEY controller this battery is below required and controller goes HEY DISPLAY scream the alarm battery too low

Considering these inverters were for AGM etc it relies on voltage from the battery but lithium is controlled by the BMS.

BMS no like BMS no give. BMS happy BMS gives. happy BMS happy power.

also for anyone reading these
BP18-1012 (1kva) is 960Wh
Ti-1512 (1.5kva) is 1280Wh
BP18-3024 (3kva) 2560Wh
Ti-3024 (3kva) 2560Wh
Ti-3052 (3kva) is 5120Wh

Use the simple maths when calculating run times Wh divided by watts amount divided by discharge amount and IF its gel or led acid divide by 2 since Gel/Lead-acid should not go below 40-50% battery Capacity due to their lower voltages to operate) otherwise you going to kill the gel/lead-acid battery and close to impossible to recharge them.

So If anyone is reading this and has lets say a RCT MP-T1000 which has a 12v 100ah gel battery if you change it to a lithium battery with a built in BMS it will last longer on the run time not necessarily double but close to it.

12x100ah (technically 12.8 x100 = 1280) if using lithium instead of 12x100 = 1200wh divided by SOC = 600Wh unusable (APPROX)


Remember NOTHING electrical is a stable amount of constant power unless controlled which no appliance does.
Computer can be 65w but fluctuates 55-95w depending what it is doing (gaming is a lot higher up to if not 650W+)

there is also more to it technically but in lament terms basically this. a Fridge states 100w just remember cold starts can be 6x if not higher on cold starts, while a TV is a LOT less considering the fridge has a motor (even if its digital)

Lithium designed inverters like the Mecer 2kva (the oval shapped one ish) can DO down to close to 0% not exactly wise to do but it can do it. Ecoflow Power station can go to 0% as well technicians will state dont do it but i know it can (dont do it unles it happens but battery management can stop it to keep the battery healthy) also the best way to re-sync those batteries anyway.
Click to expand...
I added 25W for losses as the load was 400W so did the sums with 425W. Anyway, the test lasted 2h15, so the evidence backs me up.

Not sure what you're going on about. Do you want him to return his device?
 
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