20 May 1983

The Voice said:
Apart from being "free" can you honestly say the lives of the common Black people of this country have in any way been enriched by the government they've voted into power? Apart from an elite few in government or those that have been enriched through BEE, the masses are poorer and less educated than they ever were. And there are millions more of them. Like I said, I doubt this was the future they were prepared to die for.
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Citation for any of that?
 
Cray said:
Citation for any of that?
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Perhaps not, but from time to time people claim they are told by black people that they had it better previously. In my Opinion, there are many blacks who have worked themselves up from derelict conditions but also many who simply got where they are due to AA/BEE. I do however strongly believe that all in all society (across the racial spectrum) is MUCH more stratified economically than previously.

[video=youtube;j4f0INWfws0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4f0INWfws0[/video]

EDIT: Also note the recent xenophobic attacks and claims that foreigners are stealing jobs that they desperately need.
 
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A different time & place, but I wonder if this photo evokes similar emotions than that of Hector Peterson:

bomb.jpg
 
Thanks for the reminder of the anniversary Mila. I was on the scene at the time, two minutes earlier and I would have been directly next to the bomb as it detonated. Somehow the descriptions of the incident have never managed to convey what it really was like.
 
etienne_marais said:
Perhaps not, but from time to time people claim they are told by black people that they had it better previously. In my Opinion, there are many blacks who have worked themselves up from derelict conditions but also many who simply got where they are due to AA/BEE. I do however strongly believe that all in all society (across the racial spectrum) is MUCH more stratified economically than previously.

[video=youtube;j4f0INWfws0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4f0INWfws0[/video]

EDIT: Also note the recent xenophobic attacks and claims that foreigners are stealing jobs that they desperately need.
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Indeed. I remember speaking to an elderly Black lady whom I worked with: she said she had it better under the Nats. Health care was better, as were the grants her family received. Of course, restrictions on movement, etc, was one of many reasons they fought to be free, but the South Africa they got in return wasn't what they expected. I asked why she still voted ANC, then. She said that no matter what, Whites could never, ever be allowed to run South Africa again. So my info came straight from the horse's mouth.

During apartheid we had strict border control. There was no xenophobia because we didn't have 30 million extra foreigners running around "taking locals' jobs". Yes, those jobs were menial but they were jobs, regardless - now they have nothing. We also didn't have strikes, weekly, crippling the economy. Nor did we have load shedding.

And the self-enrichment of our politicians? Anyone's deluded if they think they're now wealthy through any hard work of their own. They've stolen millions under the guise of tenders and will continue to do so.

And my age? I'm old enough to have lived in both South Africa's.
 
etienne_marais said:
A different time & place, but I wonder if this photo evokes similar emotions than that of Hector Peterson:

View attachment 217748
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Sickest part of that incident is that there were people of all races there that day: terrorism is so indiscriminate. Then the ANC government had the guile to name a street after the bomber. :thumbdown:
 
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garyc said:
Thanks for the reminder of the anniversary Mila. I was on the scene at the time, two minutes earlier and I would have been directly next to the bomb as it detonated. Somehow the descriptions of the incident have never managed to convey what it really was like.
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Let's never forget.
 
abzo said:
But that apartheid thing, they must get over it already, right?

:twisted:
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Yes, they can get over it forgive but never forget. We need to learn from the past.
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different outcome.
 
The Voice said:
Apart from being "free" can you honestly say the lives of the common Black people of this country have in any way been enriched by the government they've voted into power? Apart from an elite few in government or those that have been enriched through BEE, the masses are poorer and less educated than they ever were. And there are millions more of them. Like I said, I doubt this was the future they were prepared to die for.
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Ag you're talking a load of kark. Things are really bad in the country right now, but there's still a f-side better for the majority than they were. We're right to all be angry with the corruption and useless current government but pining for the past is only a white thing. Not a single black person wishes apartheid back.
 
The Voice said:
And my age? I'm old enough to have lived in both South Africa's.
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Assuming you are white - projecting your own longing for "good old days" just because a few black people may have bad it better in the old SA? Do you really think the majority of people think that life was better under apartheid, election numbers for the ANC say otherwise.
 
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Midnight_choir_drunk said:
An elephant is bigger than a fly. Must I source a survey to make this statement valid ?
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It's your own fault for making such an absolute statement, am sure there are more than a few black African people that collaborated with the Apartheid government who might yearn for the good old days. Am sure the vast majority of black people are happy to see the back of Apartheid, but you can never make a blanket statement about everyone in a population group, people are too different for that.
 
Cray said:
It's your own fault for making such an absolute statement, am sure there are more than a few black African people that collaborated with the Apartheid government who might yearn for the good old days. Am sure the vast majority of black people are happy to see the back of Apartheid, but you can never make a blanket statement about everyone in a population group, people are too different for that.
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I believe it to be absolutely true. I think even in such specific cases that you have mentioned they would wish for their benefits of that situation back, not the system. I don't think if you asked you would get any black person to claim that unless he was doing so out of spite or with agenda.
 
Cray said:
Assuming you are white - projecting your own longing for "good old days" just because a few black people may have bad it better in the old SA? Do you really think the majority of people think that life was better under apartheid, election numbers for the ANC say otherwise.
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Election numbers for ANC have declined. There is no way that you can ever try and link this to previous supporters wanting apartheid back. What you can link it to, though, is that people are becoming less positive about the future that the ANC is creating because things are either worse or are far short of expectation.

And let's face it, a lot of things were a lot better when the Nats were running things. Not because of apartheid, just because of a better ethos.
 
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