2009 Belgian Formula One Grand Prix

[killadoob]

Well i dunno hey, maybe they should put a gravil trap there instead of the run off area.

 

[phiber]

Yea, tho he was off to "avoid an accident" Well done kimi, definetly won a race in a car that was nowhere near the fastest. At least the KERS payed off for ferrari, winning them one race. They should be dangerous at monza with the KERS.

Also, Kimi made quite an awesome move on Fisichella, he almost lost it, but still stayed committed... On cold tyres!!

 

[killadoob]

Yea well regardless of why he won, kers was available to all teams, those who chose not to use it will suffer.

Glad they are doing away with it though, been an epic failure.

 

[Willie Trombone]

Ja, Kimi drove a great race for a change, no doubt about it. Gravel trap is not a good idea IMO as you are almost out of it then...

 

[killadoob]

Well it would stop people doing what kimi did then.

It would also mean you cannot go crazy and need to exercise some caution where as kimi just punched it and used it to keep his car moving forward without having to turn in. So you do have a point no doubt, whether or not it was legal is the debate i suppose and i have seen many use it with no problems.

 

[Willie Trombone]

True, but it will also mean many more retirements on turn one.
About the legal thing - it should be legal IMO - provided it's not an obvious advantage. I was merely pointing out that the FIA gets anal at times. Remember the Hamilton incident? It wasn't a penalty because of the chicane since he gave the place back... the penalty was because McLaren took Charlie Whiting's word for it that they had given the place back...

Then for the rest of the season people were all but stopping at the side of the road and saying 'after you'... it destroys racing. Obviously things have changed this year... at least lets hope so.

 

[killadoob]

No but you see this is why i say mclaren do not understand the rules of F1, you have to give the place back and cannot over-take until you have gone passed the next corner, meaning hamilton cut the chicane got better drive and over took kimi at the next corner, he should have yielded into that corner. So this is why i say they needed to read the rules.

I wanna see if i can find the youtube vid again.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FzNZSaKOsQ[/ame]

Now if the ham had not cut the chicane he would not have been able to over-take kimi, he gave the place back but got straight behind him and over took him using the slipstream, something he would not have been able to do had he not cut the corner. I am not sure how you cannot see a clear advantage for hamilton over this, he gained a clear advantage.

Anyways we all have different opinions, cannot find the one for kimi this year though.

Interesting i find out hamilton did the same thing in 2007 and never got punished

 

[SirFooK'nG]

I think 2nd,3rd,4th and 5th were all abreast at this point, kimi had to take a wide turn so as not to cause an accident. He then crossed the curb over the fake grass strip and had to make a hard right turn to get back on the track. Therefore I doubt he gained an advantage. If he had a clear path in the turn to start with, He would have "kerse'd" his way past Fisi anyway up the straight.

 

[milomak]

I disagree.

The pic shows that kimi is in the worst position being on the outside. He would have to brake harder to make the turn in time, losing enough momentum to be passed by the other cars behind him. Meaning his use of KERS is now to regain los positions instead of attacking for the lead.

 

[killadoob]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RiFfX4ixLD8[/ame]

Look there ham and his team mate side by side and hamilton takes the same road kimi does and gets passed his team mate.

Surely an advantage there? but nothing happened to him, so explain how anyone is against mclaren again?

 

[phiber]

I disagree.

The pic shows that kimi is in the worst position being on the outside. He would have to brake harder to make the turn in time, losing enough momentum to be passed by the other cars behind him. Meaning his use of KERS is now to regain los positions instead of attacking for the lead.

Depends, i think he had the right speed to make the turn, but if he turned someone would have come into him... It definetly looked like he ran out of space, so decided to go wide. I think it definetly gave him an advantage cos he has that amazing run into the next corner, but it looked to me he was out there to avoid an accident, and took advantage of being out there. I am big kimi fan, but i even found the advantage gained there quite suspect.

 

[Willie Trombone]

No but you see this is why i say mclaren do not understand the rules of F1, you have to give the place back and cannot over-take until you have gone passed the next corner, meaning hamilton cut the chicane got better drive and over took kimi at the next corner, he should have yielded into that corner. So this is why i say they needed to read the rules.

I think you forgot that that was only clarified after that incident.
They made the rules up as they went along to look good.

 

[Willie Trombone]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RiFfX4ixLD8
Surely an advantage there? but nothing happened to him, so explain how anyone is against mclaren again?

Dude, you're on the wrong argument again This is not a Macca Ferrari thing... it's about the FIA.

 

[reddevilandy10]

You guys are missing the point. The FIA didn't penalize Kimi because the route he took at La Source was actually the longer way round than around the actual apex. I've seen many times where drivers use the outside of the track because it has more grip than the inside. Sure, he didn't stay inside the white lines but he did that to avoid contact, and because he probably knew he would get better drive even though it was the long way around.

The FIA have a thing about cutting the track and actually making it shorter.

As for Hamilton last year, he cut the track i.e. the path he took actually decreased the track's distance. I think giving him a penalty last year spoilt an incredible race because he did let Kimi back through again but, the FIA are a bunch of idiots. They've lost a lot of respect because of that incident.

They should have maybe penalized Sutil too as he passed Badoer by going off the track too at Puhon during the race yesterday...

 

[Willie Trombone]

Longer or shorter, he took it to avoid the traffic. Sometimes longer is shorter... think about it - what were Kimi's options if he were to use the track? Having said that, I think it was right not to make an issue of it.

Re: Sutil - yes, that was an obvious case.

 

[reddevilandy10]

Longer or shorter, he took it to avoid the traffic. Sometimes longer is shorter... think about it - what were Kimi's options if he were to use the track? Having said that, I think it was right not to make an issue of it.

Re: Sutil - yes, that was an obvious case.

I'm not saying he was cheating or anything. It was genius! Shows what an incredible racing mind he has. Ferrari's gonna have a tough decision to make next year - on which driver they keep...

 

[Willie Trombone]

Just a pity he doesn't apply it and gets bored so easily.

 

[milomak]

You guys are missing the point. The FIA didn't penalize Kimi because the route he took at La Source was actually the longer way round than around the actual apex.

the longer free route proved to be more advantageous than the shorter congested route. The regulation speaks to gaining an advantage, not as to whether your choice is longer or shorter.

it is these kind of issues that the fia needs to find consistency on.

 

[killadoob]

Dude, you're on the wrong argument again This is not a Macca Ferrari thing... it's about the FIA.

I know but you said if mclaren did it they would get penalized

 

[Willie Trombone]

the longer free route proved to be more advantageous than the shorter congested route. The regulation speaks to gaining an advantage, not as to whether your choice is longer or shorter.

it is these kind of issues that the fia needs to find consistency on.

+1