3D printing a game changer

i'm guessing the biggest market for 3D printers will be in making small usefull plastic items, especially for people in smaller businesses who make stuff and hobbyists.
Wont need special tooling to make molded items and parts, just print it.
I wouldnt mind getting one myself, for robotics, theres helluva lot u can do with it, small panels, molds, gears, etc etc.
just still too expensive..... just a matter of time for costs to come down.
 
I get so irritated when I hear people going on and on about being able to print a firearm on a 3D printer.

It's IMPOSSIBLE!

The barrel needs to be high strength steel alloys... cast and then heat treated in special gaseous environments to improve hardness and durability. it is then MACHINED. A printer won't be able to ADD material and still get the necessary strength.

You can print SPRING Steel, or case hardened steel, or blued steel... these are all industrial heat treating processes that sometimes takes the solid steel blank days to cool in specific stages; or needs the red hot steel to be surface hardened by dipping it in another substance, such as oil, ceramic powder or another metal alloy. Cant do that in a printer.

The strength in steel comes from getting the individual steel molecules to line up into uniform chains and the hardness comes from introducing carbon molecules in between the chains to prevent the chains sliding past one another... this is achieved by a completely separate industrial process.
You cant "print" a tiny amount of metal material, let it cool slightly and then introduce another amount of material on top of that and achieve uniformity on a molecular level.

You might be able to print certain parts to a firearm, and you might be able to print parts that resemble firearm parts... but they'll never be able to achieve the same level of performance.
When it comes to firearms, performance is VITAL! You might be able to get one round off... maybe two... but then you're dealing with a potential explosive.

The tolerances on a firearm are measured in microns, thousandths of a millimeter... the pressures exerted are in the mega pascals. The safety factor that needs to be built in, since a person would be holding the firearm would need to be higher than most. And you just can't achieve that with "3D printing" techniques.
Impossible.

Now can we please stop making this a flippin issue!

Don't get me started on manufacturing an engine from a printer... OH MY FRIGGIN' WORD!!!!
 
OverKill69 said:
I get so irritated when I hear people going on and on about being able to print a firearm on a 3D printer.

It's IMPOSSIBLE!


When it comes to firearms, performance is VITAL! You might be able to get one round off... maybe two... but then you're dealing with a potential explosive.
Click to expand...

So according to you it IS possible.

BTW if you printed 1000 fire-able firearms you'd be able to get 1000 rounds off.
 
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bekdik said:
So according to you it IS possible.

BTW if you printed 1000 fire-able firearms you'd be able to get 100 rounds off.
Click to expand...

Note the lack of springs in their picture.

So they've fired 50 rounds through their 1911...
that's one box of ammo...

You can make a firearm at home using plumbing fixtures, over the counter springs, nails and screws... You could fire a few rounds... but then... there will be that ONE that explodes in your face.

if you watch the video carefully... the first time the "firearm expert" fires the 1911 himself, you can clearly see the firearm fails to go into battery after the shot fires and the weapon cycles. there could be tolerance issues here... but it's most likely due to them using "soft loads" instead of standard ammunition. In essence, they're cheating.

There's a reason you don't see them going bananas and firing double taps and firing full clips... There's also a reason why they don't show you the brass afterwards.

But I will admit, I said IMPOSSIBLE to print a firearm... I was wrong.
I guess I should rather say... You REALLY REALLY shouldn't do it if you would like to produce a firearm that fires safely and reliably every time.

For example... they say they've fired 50 rounds. I use 100 rounds minimum every time I go to the range. I fire 2 or 3 shots in quick succession... And I know that the barrel and chamber can handle HUNDREDS of THOUSANDS of rounds before showing signs of significant wear and fatigue. I know that my firearm is safe.

As an engineer familiar with manufacturing techniques and with the concept of 3D printing... you can't get the same performance out of 3D printed materials due to the very nature of the technology... Of adding material instead of casting, treating and then machining.

3d printed metals might be able to replace a lot of "cast" metal parts, but not ones which require specialized heat and surface treatments.

Having said all this... I will again cede that I was wrong in saying IMPOSSIBLE... I should rather have said: "Impossible to achieve the same performance."
 
@Overkill

Your points on efficiency and safety cannot be argued and apply to any homemade weapons.

Weapons apart, these printers could be really useful in manufacturing replacement parts for obsolete devices which have broken bits!
 
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bekdik said:
@Overkill

Your points on efficiency and safety cannot be argued and apply to any homemade weapons.

Weapons apart, these printers could be really useful in manufacturing replacement parts for obsolete devices which have broken bits!
Click to expand...

Hey listen... I'm excited about 3D printing too. There's definitely a place for 3D printing. And like I said, it's in replacing many cast parts, cheaply, and without the need to change dyes, and the need to cast many parts to make it feasible.

but what irritates me is the misconception being thrown around TV, radio and the interwebs of designs being out there for a fully functional AK-47 that you could download and *POOF* you can print one at home!
That's what some morons believe!
I remember there was a "technologist" on JCW's show on 702 that mentioned: "...a kid being will able to print a GLOCK, a ceramic gun, at home!"

There is so much misinformation in that one sentence that I could write a thesis on the subject.

even in the original article for this thread... the journalist writes: "They managed to print a 1911 shotgun replica". It's not a shotgun AT ALL!!! FFS!!!
I get very passionate about this issue because the general public is so anti-guns as it is! Now THE CHILDREN will be able to print guns at home and kill one another!"
or
"Al-queda will print MILLIONS of guns"
or
"Poachers could print hunting rifles and industrialize rhino murder"
or
"Kids with 3d printed gun could go 'Full Columbine' and we're porked! We're DOOMED!!!"

AAAARRRRGGGGGG

/end rant.

Having said all that. From an engineering point of view, those guys did flippin well with printing that firearm.

First of all. the 1911 itself is THE BEST candidate for 3D printing.
Moses Browning engineered the simplest and most reliable handgun of it's day in 1908. A weapon of few parts, that required basic materials and tooling, and could be churned out of factories by their thousands.
I even own a 1911. It happens to be my favourite because of it's accuracy and it's reliability.
It's a very forgiving firearm to bad ammo, but it's also the safest because of how the barrel and slide lock into battery with double grooves on the barrel and the mag catch has a solid pin going through a swivel slot attached to the barrel and the entire frame. So if a round has too much pressure for the slide to absorb, it will never be able to fail in a way that the slide detaches from the frame back into the shooter's hand or face.

The firearm looks the part... and it certainly does fire. I mean... I'd even print cool grips with my own custom design if I get my hands on one of these printers!

I just think that everyone is being caught up in the sensationalism attached to the technology of 3D printing yet no-one seems to be tempering (see what i did there) the excitement with stating the technology's limitations.
 
Early days still overkill.

The first horsecart built didn't have an AMG badge on it either.

It firing a single time is quite sufficient for a "wow".

You bring up a valid point regarding the spring though...nobody is printing one of those anytime soon.
 
HavocXphere said:
Early days still overkill.

The first horsecart built didn't have an AMG badge on it either.

It firing a single time is quite sufficient for a "wow".

You bring up a valid point regarding the spring though...nobody is printing one of those anytime soon.
Click to expand...

It's more than just springs.
Think of 3D printing as building out of Lego. Let's take a basic shape like a solid cylindrical rod.
You can build it out of Lego, and it's made out of hundreds of individual identical pieces joined together. In the case of 3D printing, the joints are effectively welds. Material is injected or projected out and then is heated by a laser upon which the next layer of material is projected is fused on top of that. So your finished solid rod is made up of MILLIONS of tiny Lego blocks a few molecules across welded to one another.
Now imagine if that same cylindrical rod was cast out of one solid piece of plastic as opposed to being made of individual pieces.
The same shape has more inherent INTERNAL strength because of the lack of joints.

When you're casting or rolling steel or other metals. It can sometimes be critical to the end product for the internal strengths of the alloys to be manipulated.
For example: a sword
A sword is not cast from molten steel into that shape. It would not be strong enough. A sword or knife needs to be "forged". The steel is RE-HEATED till a workable softness and then "worked" into shape by mechanical means. This allows for the molecules of the iron and carbon alloy to remain in long unbroken chains to give the sword it's strength around the long, thin axis. Once the sword is WORKED into shape, it is then HARDENED.
This is done by quenching the still red hot and soft sword form into water or oil briefly; to quickly cool the outside yet leave the inside of the steel cross section to cool more slowly. This hardens the outer layers of the sword so that can cut and stay sharp yet leaves the interior softer to allow for more flexibility and durability.

You cannot reproduce any of those process with a 3D printer. You cannot "mechanically forge" malleable metal on a printer.
You cannot "drop forge" tool steel.
You cannot anneal spring steel.
You cannot cool a part slowly after being worked in a nitrogen rich furnace to temper.

For thousands of years, the secrets to working metal has been one of the primary drivers of why civilizations rise and fall.
It's not just the metal itself, but WORKING the metal, cooling it, hardening it.

3D printing provides a different way of manufacturing.
Instead of starting with a fully formed block of material and machining away the pieces to achieve the desired shape... one starts with nothing and ADDS material in tiny pieces to achieve a shape.

CNC machines have been around for a number of years which can effectively take a computer design and mill out basic parts but the shapes have always been limited by the tooling.
Yet with layering... one can achieve far more complex and intricate shapes. Since the part doesn't need a tool to get in all the nooks and crannies.

However... the very nature of layering... means you lose the INTERNAL strengths of forged and hardened processes. So one cannot expect to use 3D printing manufacturing techniques to achieve the same desired performance as some machined and tooled components.

As a designer, you need to know the limitations of the technology.

3D printing will be a huge leap forward because of the speed at which one could manufacture a SINGLE complex shape from a CAD design. However, on an industrial scale, the technique would be too slow for manufacturing. So you'll see the first model "printed" and then a cast being made from the prototype and the production would probably switch back to injection molding.

On a specialized "per order" level, 3D printing will be great to manufacture traditionally cast one offs, but again... there is a limitation on the strength of a printed part.
3D printers will be supplementary tools in the manufacturing process... People's expectations need to be managed when it comes to replacing forged and heat treated parts with 3D printed ones.

A simple part like a scissor-blade will blunt and won't be able to be re-sharpened because it wasn't hardened. Yet, the plastic handle WILL be able to be printed.

I'm excited to bring 3D printing into my world, but I am getting really irritated by the misinformation that is being perpetuated by half-assed articles from journalists who re-hash press releases without taking the time to speak with industry experts or even try and conceptualize the technology in their minds in order to get REAL and USABLE information out to educate thousands of eager yet misinformed early adopters.
 
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