Archer
Honorary Master
I like this answer 
I thought I had seen everything in this thread, but this one takes the cake
I thought I had seen everything in this thread, but this one takes the cake-
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48÷2 (9+3) argument
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Mike Hoxbig
Honorary Master
Looking at that with a :wtf: on my face. Where's the post? Can't seem to find it...I like this answer
Archer
Honorary Master
Its buried somewhere in the comments of the knowyourmeme page. Man, that guy really butchered it. I lol'd hard
So to end this thread, lets all agree the answer is not 8.66....
Mike Hoxbig
Honorary Master
What's scarier is that people like that drive among us...Its buried somewhere in the comments of the knowyourmeme page. Man, that guy really butchered it. I lol'd hard
So to end this thread, lets all agree the answer is not 8.66....
MrGray
Honorary Master
I think I'm going to give this as a test to future job applicants at our company. It looks like it would be very effective in winnowing out the idiots.
The results would be ranked:
Full Pass - anyone who answers that the problem is meaningless as it is not properly formulated.
I'll Accept - anyone who answers 288 on the assumption that the space implies *. At least this is pragmatic and they can evaluate an expression properly.
GTFO - anyone who says 2, argues about the precedence, or even worse comes up with something like 8.66. (And anyone who says they've seen this on 4chan and asks me why I'm trolling them I probably wouldn't want to work with
because they would probably be quite odd).
The results would be ranked:
Full Pass - anyone who answers that the problem is meaningless as it is not properly formulated.
I'll Accept - anyone who answers 288 on the assumption that the space implies *. At least this is pragmatic and they can evaluate an expression properly.
GTFO - anyone who says 2, argues about the precedence, or even worse comes up with something like 8.66. (And anyone who says they've seen this on 4chan and asks me why I'm trolling them I probably wouldn't want to work with
because they would probably be quite odd).Bobbin
Honorary Master
48/2(9+3)
So first I do what it says inside the brackets:
=48/2(12)
We know a number before a bracket implies a multiplication:
=48/2*12
According to BODMAS division and multiplication take the same precedence so we then proceed to work from left to right:
=24*12
=288
So what the problem is?
So first I do what it says inside the brackets:
=48/2(12)
We know a number before a bracket implies a multiplication:
=48/2*12
According to BODMAS division and multiplication take the same precedence so we then proceed to work from left to right:
=24*12
=288
So what the problem is?
Mike Hoxbig
Honorary Master
I think that's overdoing a bit, unless you're qualified in the field of mathematics. Which you probably wouldn't be if you present an equation to anybody using this notation.I think I'm going to give this as a test to future job applicants at our company. It looks like it would be very effective in winnowing out the idiots.
The results would be ranked:
Full Pass - anyone who answers that the problem is meaningless as it is not properly formulated.
I'll Accept - anyone who answers 288 on the assumption that the space implies *. At least this is pragmatic and they can evaluate an expression properly.
GTFO - anyone who says 2, argues about the precedence, or even worse comes up with something like 8.66. (And anyone who says they've seen this on 4chan and asks me why I'm trolling them I probably wouldn't want to work with
The problem is that it's a guideline, not a mathematical law.
Bobbin
Honorary Master
Well I work with what I'm given
Unless we can rephrase this question in terms of apples and bananas I think the guideline is the best approach
Mike Hoxbig
Honorary Master
No the guideline is not the answer, an equation using the proper notation isWell I work with what I'm given
I'm sure you would agree that the world wouldn't end if this was written over 2 lines instead of 1.
MrGray
Honorary Master
No offence, but by my criteria, I *definitely* would not employ you. See, my system works
MrGray
Honorary Master
Congratulations. You are sane, capable of performing sensible mathematical calculation, and not a troll. I would definitely make you a firm job offer if you were a job seeker according to my newly discovered system of weeding out nitwits and the kind of argumentative twats that will split hairs to the nth degree, thus paralysing any profitable endeavour in the real world.
Mike Hoxbig
Honorary Master
No offence, but by my criteria, I *definitely* would not employ you. See, my system works
That's fine, I have no intention of being employed by somebody who doesn't know the difference between a guideline and a law. Keep your cash, I'll save my degree in applied maths for somebody who actually knows wtf they're talking about
meanwhile you stick to being an Internet mathematician who uses troll equations as a criteria for hiring people.
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Math rules SHOULD be followed consistently. Juxtaposition is not a rule. Let's take your example and following rules of precedence
8x / 2x
= 8 * x / 2 * x
= 8x / 2 * x
= 4x * x
= 4x^2
If the person writing the equation wanted to divide 8 x's by 2 x's they should have written the equation as
(8x) / (2x)
or
8x
--
2x
That is how equations are written to avoid ambiguity. Because it wasn't written like that doesn't imply that there is ambiguity though as there is a set of rules to follow. If the equation is wrong then it was merely written wrong. Every equation should be written according to the rules.
As someone mentioned previously this type of question is what's used to test student's math abilities and there's only one answer to it.
Yes get rid of the brackets by following the rules so
48 ÷ 2 (9+3)
= 48 ÷ 2 x 12
= 24 x 12
= 288
What laws? Trigonometry has laws. Mathematics have rules. There is no reason why in (2+2*2) multiplication is done first to get 6 other than that it's arbitrarily agreed upon. But because it's just a "guideline" as you claim we can do addition first and get 8. The rules are there so everyone can expect their equations to be done in a consistent manner. Go drive on the right side of the road because it's just a "guideline" to drive on the left.
Mike Hoxbig
Honorary Master
The order of operations is not gospel, it is a guideline. Division is a multiplicative inverse, and subtraction is an additive inverse. The order in which you do either one should be irrelevant. This can be proven. The left to right thing should therefore not matter, and if it does then the notation is poor. I'll repeat it again - NO mathematician writes expressions in this manner. I'm not sure how much clearer this can be made, so make of it what you will.What laws? Trigonometry has laws. Mathematics have rules. There is no reason why in (2+2*2) multiplication is done first to get 6 other than that it's arbitrarily agreed upon. But because it's just a "guideline" as you claim we can do addition first and get 8. The rules are there so everyone can expect their equations to be done in a consistent manner. Go drive on the right side of the road because it's just a "guideline" to drive on the left.
Edit: nobody is disputing multiplication/division before addition/subtraction, if that's what your point was. Yes there needs to be conformity. But when it reaches the point of having to evaluate an operator of equal standing from left to right then there is already a problem.
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this whole thing is complicated by factoring out a term
6x+3 = 3(2x+1)
so we take 3(2x+1) to be a whole single term
so what if i factor out 24 as 2(9+3)?
i would say that convention is that where you have a(b+c), you are meant to treat it as a single term otherwise if not the equation should be represented in a way that shows you a and b+c are two terms.
6x+3 = 3(2x+1)
so we take 3(2x+1) to be a whole single term
so what if i factor out 24 as 2(9+3)?
i would say that convention is that where you have a(b+c), you are meant to treat it as a single term otherwise if not the equation should be represented in a way that shows you a and b+c are two terms.
How can you say it's only a guideline? These are basic mathematic rules so that everybody will be consistent in their approach. If left to right is only a guideline then so is the order of operators.
You say the order is irrelevant so (4÷2)*8 = 4÷(2*8)?
Mike Hoxbig
Honorary Master
well you've introduced brackets now haven't you? You've provided a well defined expression. In the first case, 8 belongs in the numerator and in the second case it belongs in the denominator.
Would you agree that 42/2(12) can also be written as 42/2/1/12 since division is a multiplicative inverse? But do you see the problem here? If the notation is poor to begin with then it's a pointless exercise. Theres no way of telling if 12 belongs in the numerator or denominator. And that's why people who write single line expressions which should be double line expressions, are idiotic.
Yes I introduced brackets to change the order like you claimed can be done because multiplication and division can be rearranged. Clearly this shows that is false. It can only be rearranged if the numerators and denominators still stay the same. It's the same thing you do with the problem if you get 2.
The notation is only poor because people don't follow the rules and consider "dividing into" to take precedence. There is no such rule stating this should be done. I agree that people should not write expressions like this but if they do the same rules still apply. For somebody with a degree in applied maths you should know this and not advocate that math rules are just guidelines.
Ekstasis
Honorary Master
why is this thread 500 posts long????