A few things about DK dps

Skurm

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I've noticed some DK hate going around lately, and while I recognise it's mostly for the lulz, there are a few things that do need to be said so that peole understand exactly why dps DK's seem to pull aggro and/or die more than other classes.

First off, DK's have no aggro drop. No feint, no feign death, no soul shatter, no wind shear. If they pull aggro, they have to basically soak it and hope the tank gets it back.

Secondly, pulling extra aoe aggro is built into virtualy every spec's basic rotation. Since most specs take Glyph of Disease so they can refresh diseases on a target using one cooldown and rune instead of two, the byproduct is that diseases are being spread to all adds in the vicinity by said Pestilence. This means cc getting broken, or adds that we and the tank aren't focusing on taking damage. If the tank isn't on his a-game with aoe aggro, chances are we're going to pull aggro. Furthermore, each spec has key dps talents that contribute to this. Blood's basic nuke is Heart Strike, which is a cleave hitting two target. Nothing we can do about that. Frost utilizes Howling Blast, which combined with Killing Machine and Rime procs, is a major contributor to our single target dps. The caveat here is that a KM-Rime proc HB is going to mean an automatic crit to everything in the near vicinity. Lastly, Unholy. Kinda obvious here, this is the king spec of aoe. Wandering Plague, massive DnD's, and again Glyph of Disease being a key compnent to the playstyle and rotation. As you can see, a DK can't help but spread arounda little love. Unlike other classes that can decide when they want to do aoe and when they want to focus on single target nuking. Now factor in the inherent danger of being in melee range constantly AND doing constant aoe damage and it becomes a little clearer to see why DK's tend to pull loose aggro more often than anyone else.

We counterbalance that with damage mitigation cooldowns. Or rather, we're supposed to. In fact, you may even notice some DK's purposefully activating antimagic shell and standing in the fire for a second or two to charge up Runic Power. Do not panic. He's not being noob, for DK standing in the fire is actually a good thing. If they know what they're doing. See, we have abilities like bone shield and death pact to save the healer(s) some work. The problem is that many DK's use these cooldowns offensively rather than defensively, as for example Unbreakable Armor boosts our strength, not just our armour, by a significant amount for a short time. Or they'll summon their ghoul for some extra dps in the beginning of a fight, but when they need to sac it later for a quick health buff it'll be dead and on cd. Odds are that our 'defensive' cooldowns will be on cooldown when we need it to save our hiney. Don't blame us, blame the game, blame the 'be at the top of the dps meters or be a loser' mentality that everyone seems to share these days.

Now, not saying that there aren't noob DK's. Because clearly there are many. Like any class. But before going on a crusade against class x or y or whatever, it's a good idea to see things from that point of view.
 
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Like you said you get noobs playing all classes , it's just easier to find a dk that's a noob because it's the most played class since its release.
 
My point is just about every person has a DK alt/main with his other toons. I have a 69DK that's how far I got lvling it when WOTLK hit before I got bored.
 
I love our dks. They make life easier for me. Deathgriping ranged mobs owns :P And also their aoe is pure awesomeness. Our 1 unholy dk pulls 12-13k Dps on twins lol.
 
My point is just about every person has a DK alt/main with his other toons
WEll yeah, but how many people actually make them their mains. I think a lot of the initial glamour has worn off. The class is nowhere near as strong as it used to be, in fact nowadays being overshadowed by almost every other class. Their dps is about par for the course(except for unholy aoe which is miles ahead), nothing special really. And these days most people would prefer a warrior, paladin or bear tank. DK's used to be every hardcore guild's main tank but that mantle has since been lost. PvP wise, I don't think they're doing too well at all. I'm not big into rated pvp but last i heard they weren't such hot property.

It's fun to fiddle about with a DK here and there, but people who've chosen to adopt these as mains get a lot of flack because of others playing them as alts and doing so badly. I think if you ruled out alts, DK's could very well be one of the least populated classes around. I've certainly noticed a decline in the number of them i run into since starting hc randoms. tbqh, my gut feel is there are way more paladins around. They're like roaches these days.
 
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I dont mind DK dps, theyre pretty okayish at that. What I hate are DK tanks. They suck. ... and there are just too many bad dks out there as they are the most over played class out there. Our guild would never run a dk as a tank... main tank or off tank. We have carebears, pallies and warriors who do the job way better.
 
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most dk in random heroics just sux and normally dont pull agro. but yeah once and a while you see a good one.

btw there ain't really spec that use glyph of disease :)
 
Our guild would never run a dk as a tank
This game changes with the tides. Careful what you wish for. DK's, just a few months ago, were the best tanks BY FAR. Warrior, drood and poofter(sorry, paladin) tank tears where staining 13year olds' pillows everywhere. Ghostcrawler has stated that Blizzard isn't exactly happy with the state of DK tanks right now. I smell buffs incoming, and all yall will eat those words... :p
 
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You have wipes? I thought you didnt have any dk tanks in your guild?
 
While Im pugging with my shaman in normal instances (yes, thats how bad dk tanks are)... She is only level 76 and nowhere near raid worthy yet.

I use my mage main for raids.

I really hope they buff DK "tanks" as soon as possible, theyre everywhere and by far the most common class out there... and Azeroth needs more tanks. Real ones.
 
Well yes, clearly pugging normal instances pre 80 is going to give you an objective opinion on the state of a class you know nothing about.

Look. Most pre-80 dk's don't know how to tank because they're doing so in dps gear with a dps levelling spec. You can't judge all dk's against that. Starting at 55 means DK's generally don't have a dual spec until they hit 80, and people who roll one for an alt for lulz generally arent gonna pony up a grand for a dual spec either. Properly specced and geared endgame dk's are fine. Most guilds doing heroic raids and/or hardmodes use a DK as the offtank, because nothing peels aggro and holds aoe mob aggro like a dk. Maybe your guild doesn't, but that's doesn't mean that the way of things everywhere. Methinks you merely have an axe to grind. Whatsa matter. DPS DK pwning ur mage on the charts? Unholy kicking your arse in teh pvp?
 
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Well yes, clearly pugging normals pre 80 is going to give you an objective opinion on the state of a class you know nothing about.

:/

Well that seems to have nothing to do with it, as my opinion is certainly not unique and shared by just about everyone who doesnt play a DK :whistle: I wonder how most other people got to the same common consensus. That DK tanks currently suck.
 
Heh. Well. 'Everyone' is a subjective term. Besides, pugged shamans are the worst healers in my experience. I much prefer a priest, paladin or druid in my 5mans (yay hots and stam buffs). So that swings both ways.
 
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Heh. Well. 'Everyone' is a subjective term. Besides, pugged shamans are the worst healers in my experience. I much prefer a priest, paladin or druid in my 5mans (yay hots and stam buffs). So that swings both ways.

Yeah, it took me a long time to learn to heal as a shaman... and we go oom fast. I now have that waxed for now and am feeling confident, but it was not easy.
 
DK's seem to have a lower health pool by default than other tanks (Frost presence used to be huge, but got nerfed to hell), and ofc no block rating. Priests specifically offset this with preemptive heals, hots and a huge stamina buff.
I'd agree that DK's are relatively the worst main tanks right now, but they make fine offtanks, and even as 'relatively bad', a properly geared and specced and played DK can breeze through any 5man. The problem you're noticing during levelling is that dk's start at 55, and anyone whose never tanked before, who rolls a DK to do so, isn't going to have the 55levels prior of experience levelling up. I've seen 'tank' dk's trying to tank in blood presence, for example. It would be the same as handing you a level 55 healer class to someone whose never healed a thing before, and watch them try to heal instances in their levelling dps spec.

A level 55 warrior is going to know more about tanking than a level 55 dk. That's just how it is. Personally i believe dk's should've started at lvl 1 like everyone else.
 
Should change the title to a few things about DK tanking:p
The 3 or 4 people I know in guild who play DK's is a mage main, DK off-tank. And then 2 of the guild officers wives who play DK dps as main spec...they're doing quite well atm especially since the new dungeon system and the ease of getting badges.

I meant no offense when I said I got bored after leveling my Dk to lvl69 so please try not to slander pala's(poofters). I played a warrior pre-WOTLK and had my pally at lvl26 when it came out, and I must say tankin with a pally is way more fun than with a warr:D
 
Hah. No, seriously, I'd rather be a DK. Might not be the greatest class right now (i prefer a challenge), but i'll take the 'neo-huntard' stigma over 'pompous crossdressing faggot' any day.

Hur hur trolling's fun.
 
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