A nasty deal indeed!

M

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http://www.businessday.co.za/articles/frontpage.aspx?ID=BD4A42764


"The other sour element of this deal is Ngcaba’s personal position. As director-general in communications, he was instrumental in bringing the foreign investors into Telkom in the first place. He wrote the rules by which they functioned. And he was at the centre of the many political delays in launching a rival to Telkom — delays which helped Telkom entrench its position in the market and which will now benefit him. The conflict of interest is appalling."

This whole deal smacks of corruption and shows that BEE is just the quickest way for these elite few to become very wealthy, extremely quickly!

Where is the broad based empowerment that Mbeki has been talking about! Not to mention that Smuts (Yes the same Smuts who is the Presidents Spokesman!) Is a millionaire in one foul sweep!
 
:mad: , and just who is going to stop them ? Their conscience ? That was probably sold off years ago.....
Everyday more stories of curruption and joe public get's screwed over and over.
 
Perfect example of why you should leave this country. If this is common practice then we will never go forward.
 
Hmm ... wonder if they are truly masters of their own destiny ... only having tea and cucumber sandwiches at board meetings and hobnobbing with the fellow Gauteng wabenzi jetset.

Most BEE deals are financed in some really odd ways ... very much depended on performance of the share price ... at the end of the day the folks who provided the funding are really pulling the strings.
 
Don't tempt me eye_suc, I think I'm on my way this year, sad but true... I'm 90% decided to spend a few years overseas and come back again when the ANC finally learn how to run a country ...

I love this country - even though I'm a Pom, I don't consider myself one - been living here for 25 years - most my life - I'm an South African.

But I can't stand to see the lost opportunity - I can't stand watching a minority enrich itself at the expense of a majority all over again !

Welcome to the new apartheid - the rich minority vs. the poor majority.
Welcome to reverse apartheid against non-blacks. (whether they are white, coloured or indian)
Welcome to a country where the slogan "Crime Pays" seems to come from the uppermost levels of society !

Fsck that !

People say "ahhh, but you'll miss living on the edge !"

Whaaaaat ? ??

Fsck that ! - I've got far better things to do than worry about crime, corruption and inflation !
 
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bb_matt said:
Don't tempt me eye_suc, I think I'm on my way this year, sad but true... I'm 90% decided to spend a few years overseas and come back again when the ANC finally learn how to run a country ...
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That'll never happen man. We all know that Mbeki can just instruct Poison Ivy to change everything to the consumer's favor. Another thing is there's a lot of greed up there. Think about how quickly these guys are getting rich. There's a lot more poor people in this country.

I wish I could move to the US permanently and come here to visit my family.
 
rebel - man, it's just horrible - I don't want to think about it, but have to.

There will be people posting here in response saying "your all just negative, this is a great country !"

Half of me will agree totally, the other negative half will not.
I'm torn - badly torn !
I had such a good day today - meeting with some really fab south africans in business and for a drink, the sun was shining, we were at the Jolly Roger on 4th Ave. and all was good.

I don't know - I'm so confused - back in '94 it was cut 'n dried that no white person knew WTF was going to happen, in '95 it was like South Africa suddenly had a future after apartheid, the following years were good.

Lately, because of the level of corruption at government level and the lack of progress in terms of rich vs. poor, white, black, coloured and indian are all asking "WTF ?"

We have to all intents and purposes become a nation of criminals.
I dare you to challenge that assumption, when you consider that crimes have been committed by the highest ranking people and they've got off scott free !
 
When the ANC learns to run a country?

Hmm...that will be in a few hundred years because we're a developing democracy....I just hope they lose the municipal elections in Cape Town..the crap that has been going on here once the ANC has been in power is amazing...
 
matt & eyesuc , i'm off to 1 of those work abroad seminars tomorrow to see what the procedure is, mixture of the current situation in the country and possible retrenchment for me though :( :( .

But i see it as an oppurtunity ;)
 
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Well, mccrack, me too.

I have some buddies in Australia and they are all way happy there.
People say Australia is boring because not much happens - well, get me my ticket because I don't judge things that way ! :)

I'm most happy with a safe environment where my imagination can run wild !

As for this beautiful country - as I said, I'm completely confused about it.
I was in Mpumalanga this last long weekend in the Bush with no electricity overlooking a stunning gorge and my heart just went out to the country.

Then I got back to Josie ...
 
;) , Jozie not all bad. But sure does'nt beat the mother city.
I think spending a few years abroad and gaining more skills and experience will not do me any harm, heh who knows, maybe by the time i get back the Scorpions would have arrested all the politicians guilty of corruption, the SNO would have been established and offering free local calls and VDSL on their network and the Stormers might win a rugby game......

Talkin about that ..... :D

Edward was at school when the teacher asked all the children what their

dad's did for a living. All the typical answers came out, fireman,

Policeman, Salesman, Chippy, Captain of Industry etc. But Edward was

uncharacteristically quiet, and so the teacher asked him about his dad.

"My father is an exotic dancer at a gay club & takes all his clothes off in

front of other men. Sometimes if the offer is good they'll rent a room at a

motel, and spend the night."


The teacher quickly set the other children to work on another task and took

Edward aside to ask him if it was really true.


"No" said Edward "he plays rugby for the Stormers, but I was too

embarrassed to say!"


;) I know i've helped this topic go off course ..... Soweeeeee :o
 
If you guys will permit me to come and offer my two cents (yes I know I'm likely to be flamed for what I say) -

There are a couple of things white South Africans need to recognise:

1) Ten years of democracy does not undo 350 years of colonialism and neo-colonialism. For the most part, black people in this country start out life with enormously greater challenges than White or Indian people. The past HAS to be redressed, and whether you like it or not, this is going to happen. No, it will not be democratic per se if one views such economic redistribution from the context of a narrow, short time period. But in the context of 350 years of inequality and UN-opportunity, any attempts at economic redistribution (eg Affirmative Action) are very democratic. Economic redistribution, also referred to as 'reverse apartheid', can happen quickly, or it can happen slowly. The ANC has adopted the slow-track.

2) Current inefficiency in government is very much part of the legacy of apartheid. The apartheid government denied millions the benefits of a solid, decent, comprehensive education. Now white South Africa turns around and wonders why the hell the ANC is having such difficulties running the country. Thank heavens, and I mean it - get down on your hands and knees and thank heaven tonight - the ANC had the foresight to send the brightest ANC youths overseas to get a decent education (for example, Mbeki). Where SA would be had the ANC not done this, I shudder to think.

By the same token, there are a couple of things black South Africans need to realise:

1) When white South Africans voice disagreement over Affirmative Action, they do so not because they are racist, but because they would prefer a meritocracy - a country where the person best suited for job gets the job. Black on white racism is far more rife, pernicious and insidious than white on black racism. The media, for some strange reason, does not seem to realise that there is even something called 'black on white racism'.

2) Not all whites were complicit in apartheid. Younger white South Africans are paying for the sins of their forefathers. Be sensitive to this, especially since apartheid is NOT their fault, yet these are the people who lose out because they are 'not the right colour'.

And here are some things the ANC needs to know:

1) ANC, you are no longer a liberation movement, you are a political party. Where are the capacity-building attempts which will create a new organisational culture, aimed at transforming the ANC from a liberation movement into a political party? Why does this issue go unnoticed? It is CRUCIAL that this be done.

2) Where is the accountability from public servants? Why is the ANC consciously creating a political elite? Do you not realise that this is the single biggest reason why the 'new African democracies' have failed? Why aren't you working harder on fighting corruption?

3) Dear ANC, Here's a Newsflash - the disadvantaged and the poor in South Africa are not only black. Government economic assistance that uses race alone as a measure of qualification is BS, racist and does nothing to promote the non-racial democracy you purport to envision. Wake up.

And finally, here are some things every South African needs to realise:

1) Government alone cannot be entirely responsible for creating the kind of society that we want. Democracy entails certain citizen-obligations - whether we choose to take up these obligations or not is a matter of choice, but if we collectively choose not to, then we must be prepared for the consequences.

2) In a democracy, citizens need always sleep with one eye open.

3) You have certain civic duties to fufill. You need to vote in national, provincial, and local council elections. You need to comment on legislation that the government is mulling. You need to keep informed about what your government is doing, and make a racket when something looks sour. Imagine the kind of country we can have if every South African did this, and if we all made it our personal responsibility to make SA a better country. If all SAfricans stood up and played their part, government would have no choice but to respond to our wants and needs. But instead, as a society we sit back and wait for government to make the first move. And so, the cycle continues.

To those who bemoan the state of affairs in SA, I would just like to ask you one thing: Are you playing your part as a citizen? Do you fulfill your civic duties? If so, a pat on the back. If not, stop bitching and leave the country already. SA doesn't need people like you.

bb_Matt's sentiments are spot-on: this country is a great place to live. But this country is also a terrible place to live. What are you doing to change the latter?
 
Debbie2 said:
....yes I know I'm likely to be flamed for what I say
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That won't be fair if there is any flaming for such a good post. Anyway I thought in this or any forum, in the words of dominic, I quote "play the ball not the man".

I'm also disappointed with the ANC's slow pace of doing things, BUT also I have to sympathise with them in their endevour to undo a system that took 50 years to engineer in 10 years.

About Young black S. Africans should not complain about apartheid: here is my take:
I finished my matric in 94 and applied to learning institutions and sponsors to further my education and I got rejected and the reason: Your educational background isn't adequate. Why is that?
It is because I didnt have a proper lab for Science or Biology, knowledgable teachers of required subjects and probably I didn't go to the right school. Who's to blame for the mess? I will wait for your responses.
So luckily enough for me after 2 years of basking @ home I got a break of being enrolled at an engineering bridging course at a 'bush' university and got my degree.
So from now on I don't need the ANC to help me (like I ever got it) or me to help them. I expect to help other S. Africans hope as well they help me in bulding this country for my kids and their kids and we can all stop this nonsense of blaming apartheid or post-apartheid governments.... (i'll finish later)
 
stepper said:
About Young black S. Africans should not complain about apartheid
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Hey stepper,

Just to avoid any potential misunderstanding, I did not say anything to this effect.

Sorry, I just wanted to make that clear :)
 
Debbie2 said:
If ....A whole lot... What are you doing to change the latter?
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Very well put Debbie and good points, but sadly perhaps not that easy for many to conform to.
 
Debbie2 said:
Hey stepper,

Just to avoid any potential misunderstanding, I did not say anything to this effect.

Sorry, I just wanted to make that clear :)
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NO, no, no! I should be the one apologising for causing the misunderstanding.
I made my statements because with these BEE deals there is always this thing about young S. Africans should be seen as equal or judged on merit for certain jobs or deals for that matter, and I totally agree with that but we all know its impossible.
To me it should read as all kids that started their schooling after 94, should be viewed the same way irrespective of race or background. Then we will call that the 'levelled playing fields' (grammar?).
 
"which lends credence to the argument that empowerment is little more than a pyramid, with the few at the top taking the lion's share of the benefits" - IC's Link.

Now how many times has this point been noted, pointed out and made headlines ?

Question - If 70% of the money in this country was in Black hands, would we be better off ? That's where it's going .... *SHUDDER*
 
stoke said:
"which lends credence to the argument that empowerment is little more than a pyramid, with the few at the top taking the lion's share of the benefits" - IC's Link.
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Well said, Sir!
stoke said:
Now how many times has this point been noted, pointed out and made headlines ?
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Well everyday on the papers.

stoke said:
Question - If 70% of the money in this country was in Black hands, would we be better off ? That's where it's going .... *SHUDDER*
Click to expand...
/me wonders.... :rolleyes:
I'll cross that bridge when I reach it.
 
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