AA & BBBEE, will they ever end?

noxibox said:
They must be running the US and UK too.
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Ha ha I too was unaware that the US and the UK (actually most countries in the world) were run on this well known economic principal of "African Mentality"! You learn something new every day!



(And as a side note it is quite obvious that in this instance the use of the word African by the poster refers to black... not very PC in my eyes but I won't go as far as saying racist otherwise a lot of people here tend to get on their high horses when you do)
 
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LancelotSA said:
Not wanting to cover this discussion in detail AGAIN but do people really think that in 1994 someone snapped their fingers and all of a sudden all South Africans were on an equal footing?
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Nobody said they were. Setting up a strawman again Lancelot?

Seeing that effect of the present legislation is to force companies to dispense with highly skilled and experienced people and replace them with the opposite (and don't come with hoary old argument that that wasn't the intention. It is the result. Deal with it). The consequences of AA are now becoming apparent. So what alternative do you suggest?

When Tony Blair was made aware of the intention to implement AA he was horrified. Even an idiot like Blair could look at Africas past and draw the obvious conclusions.

If you want an idea of the scale of the skills problem, I was on a plane from Singapore to Auckland last week and there were at least 4 families on that plane emigrating to NZ. Saffers are easy to pick out with their green passporst. Emigrants, too, are easy. Lotsa luggage. Think about that Lancelot 4 couples on one plane. At least one of whom is highly skilled. Probably both (educated people tend to marry educated people).

I've had a long hard think about this one (something you clearly have not) and the only way to put PDI's on an equal footing, without compromising standards and the very skills for which SA is desperate, is education. Bad news is that it will take generations. So the govt took the easy way out. Take from the haves and give to the have nots. It looks good on paper until the whole %$#house goes up in flames (to quote Jim Morrison), which is starting to happen now.

LancelotSA said:
Ha ha, I refuse to respond to this argument! It is naive at best!
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Yes I'd noticed than when you start losing an argument you disappear.
 
In theory it should end when its goal is completed but as the ANC is incompetent and couldnt organise a pi$$ up in a brewery, it never will.
 
noxibox said:
How do you get companies run by racist, sexist white males to hire other races and women?


Well it has been in force in the US for decades.

Other countries include Australia (for women - still in force as far as I am aware, they have only recently ended their program to exterminate the Aborigines), Canada.

The issue is not with affirmative action, but its implementation. It does not work if you're forced to hire unqualified people purely on the basis of some other criterion. Now I've personally never seen that happen in South Africa, and I know no-one who has trouble getting work because they're white and male, but no doubt some people do.
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The US is hardly relevant, the minority are the ones getting help, thats totally different.

Sexist men hire pretty females first actually. They need someone to harrass and something to look at in between working.

White males are getting paid less for doing the same jobs as others in certain companies/fields, that much is very obvious, they also dont get that raise or promotion they are looking for. Effectively the system is stunting our chances of leading a successful life based on race AND sex, which is VERY specific.. Pin point accuracy.. Might aswell make us wear the star of david at all times, oh wait im thinking about something else.

Those without money don't get the woman. Those without woman end up alone and can't pass on their genes. So yeah, they might aswell steralize some of us, cause they are doing it in a somewhat polite way anyway.

Those who benefitted from an apartheid are not affected. Their families have money, they have contacts in high places, and they will get good jobs no matter what. They are targetting the wrong people, not like they care. White is white whether you are afrikaans or russian.

Interesting how they don't make it specific enough to actually make it even more effective. I dont see why someone who came just in time to see the 94 elections should pay, it was inevitable that the change in power was going to happen and we came anyway. Wasn't like they caught us by surprise, they are acting like we came here to ride on the black mans back, but because we are so stupid we came at the wrong time and now they are going to make us pay.., We brought skills to this country and if you had told us you were going to fk us over just for doing so we would have avoided it and gone somewhere else as opposed to getting our heads trodden on so everyone else can get things handed to them on a silver platter while our chance of success is stifled :cool:

I don't believe that race, gender, religion or anything else that you are going to have a pretty farken hard time changing should be put into consideration for jobs or anything else. The above mentioned countries (in another post) who say its against their constitution are 100% correct. Only hypocrites would disagree.
 
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LancelotSA said:
Ha ha I too was unaware that the US and the UK (actually most countries in the world) were run on this well known economic principal of "African Mentality"! You learn something new every day!



(And as a side note it is quite obvious that in this instance the use of the word African by the poster refers to black... not very PC in my eyes but I won't go as far as saying racist otherwise a lot of people here tend to get on their high horses when you do)
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African = black (ANC definition).

I'm not PC and will never be. A spade is a spade. Anybody with common sense can see what AA and BEE is doing to SA. We won't pay the price for this but our children will. People like you will never learn, give me any good news from the rest of Africa that's been down this road before.
 
VJB 449 said:
Hi bright spark how about providing us with a comparison of education levels between SA, USA and the UK and then try and put it into context with your post.
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Why would I bother to do that? Or did I miss the detailed information backing the claims in your post?
 
Skeptik said:
As far as BEE (Black Economic Enrichment) is concerned, if we are all truly regarded as the same with equal rights and no differences or superiority then we don't need anything like this. Look at the logic and you will see it cannot be justified.
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What about the decades of government-enforced substandard education? Do you think everyone's had an equal opportunity?

(BTW, I'm not suggesting that well-educated, wealthy people should be included in any BEE).
 
THe fact is that most people in the townships and poorer areas are still getting that poor level of education. The lower qualified teachers from the apartheid years are still in the system. They also still have poor facilities.
 
Claymore said:
What about the decades of government-enforced substandard education? Do you think everyone's had an equal opportunity?

(BTW, I'm not suggesting that well-educated, wealthy people should be included in any BEE).
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It is easy to have a warped look at history.

But it is a fact that Apartheid started in 1948, and with the takeover of the National Party, the process was started to wean South Africa from the UK and the Queen.

Before that, the country was mostly governed by parties and individuals favouring the british.

As an example: The brittish made the "apartheid" law prohibiting the sale of liquor to blacks.

In 1948, educational opportuinities for blacks were very limited - it was not a priority to develop black education under british rule.

After 1948, one saw much more money, skills and energy being chucked at "bantu education". The reality is that there were only few black teachers, few training facilities for black teachers, and even less black kids that had a schooling under british rule that could train as teachers.

Getting an educational system going from 0-100 is not only clicking fingers and it happens - it takes time.

During 1976 my father was a dean at the University of Fort Hare, and my mother a teacher at a black school. I heard that the university was in general better equiped than the white universities, and saw myself the equipment the black school had where my mother taught.

But still there were riots. "Liberation before Education"

AA and BEE is forcing companies to employ barbarians who preferred not to be educated but liberated.

An uneducated person spells disaster in the fast moving world of today.
 
Affirmative action is designed to work for an oppressed minority. Not a majority.
 
The first thing that the ANC did after 1994 was to close down teachers training institutions and amalgamate them with Universities. This imo pulled the plug on the supply of teachers.

As for the schools, black schools are getting "free" stuff thrown at them, vsat internet, computer networks, support from outside SA. It is the ANC and their policies that have successfully messed up a workable teaching system into what it is now. Dont blame this mess on apartheid. The system was skewed but usable. It just had to get utilized more intensely on the old black schooling system. I was slightly involved with the military convoys that has to patrol the townships and saw good usable school buildings, wrecked / burned in the name of the struggle.

Anyway back to AA and EE and all that cr*p if it still has to be implemented in America today, what hope is there of it ever ending in SA? White people will for ever be working on a basis focusing on their RACE! Racist policies, no matter how well written and disguised still are that.
 
dlk001 said:
Great mentality. I like this kind of thinking. Its exactly why they should not end! MayBEE BEE should BEE broadened to make it better!
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Wow.. Match sht with sht why don't you.. :rolleyes:
 
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