Addiction advice thread

[HyperBudgie]

Xanax (Xanor) / Valium Addiction....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEIg1as2ppc

http://www.myaddiction.com/xanax_addiction.html

These drugs are from the benzodiazepine class of drugs. What gets me is how doctors and Psychiatrists prescribe them so quickly knowing full well they are only to be used for short term treatment, they are highly addictive and there are other less severe treatments that can be used.

Now I have two family members who are probably addicted to this and in both cases the doctors have prescribed it as long term treatment.

It is sooooo easy to get a 6month repeat for Alzam (xanor)....AND they're cheap!!

 

[dappled]

Xanax (Xanor) / Valium Addiction....

These drugs are from the benzodiazepine class of drugs. What gets me is how doctors and Psychiatrists prescribe them so quickly knowing full well they are only to be used for short term treatment, they are highly addictive and there are other less severe treatments that can be used.

Now I have two family members who are probably addicted to this and in both cases the doctors have prescribed it as long term treatment.

That is terrible garyvdh. It make me LIVID that GPs and pharmacists don't adequately warn people about the drugs they deal in. The benzodiazepines particularly because they are so hard on both the mind and the body, (harder than most illegal drugs). gvdh, just a word of caution- watch for those who might be mixing of benzos with any kind of downer (alcohol, opiates, anti-histamines), it was this sort of cocktail which killed heath ledger; and also there is a high risk of coma and death in withdrawal from high amounts of benzos.

 

[Sensorei]

I think it's a bit more complicated than this.

Giving up a serious addiction is seriously stressful so the emotional bonds that get formed with people going through the same thing can be extremely strong. It can sometimes be a logical conclusion that more serious relationships form.

Also NA/AA are crutches. They are not ideal but a lot of people need them to get through serious problems with addiction.

NA/AA does work but addicts are tend do overdo everything they are interested in and sometimes make NA/AA look a bit like a cult that judges everyone who is 'normal'. The bottom line is that it works for some people which makes them an option. I personally know quite a few people that went to 'meetings' to get clean and are now doing great. I do agree however that some people take these meetings way too seriously and then revolve their whole lives around the NA/AA world, basically just replacing their drug subculture which is not healthy because they ultimately never become normal members of society.

But if it keeps them alive, functional, honest members of society then it is doing what umpteen visits to rehab generally do not.

Different strokes for different folks...

 

[HyperBudgie]

That is terrible garyvdh. It make me LIVID that GPs and pharmacists don't adequately warn people about the drugs they deal in. The benzodiazepines particularly because they are so hard on both the mind and the body, (harder than most illegal drugs). gvdh, just a word of caution- watch for those who might be mixing of benzos with any kind of downer (alcohol, opiates, anti-histamines), it was this sort of cocktail which killed heath ledger; and also there is a high risk of coma and death in withdrawal from high amounts of benzos.

My wife is a pharmacist and she sees benzo addiction daily...but her hands are tied and if there is a valid script....She is obligated to supply the medictation even though she can see that the patient is addicted to them...

 

[Dolby]

NA/AA does work but addicts are tend do overdo everything they are interested in and sometimes make NA/AA look a bit like a cult that judges everyone who is 'normal'. The bottom line is that it works for some people which makes them an option. I personally know quite a few people that went to 'meetings' to get clean and are now doing great. I do agree however that some people take these meetings way too seriously and then revolve their whole lives around the NA/AA world, basically just replacing their drug subculture which is not healthy because they ultimately never become normal members of society.

But if it keeps them alive, functional, honest members of society then it is doing what umpteen visits to rehab generally do not.

Different strokes for different folks...

I guess you haven't sifted through the web site I posted earlier?

 

[dappled]

My wife is a pharmacist and she sees benzo addiction daily...but her hands are tied and if there is a valid script....She is obligated to supply the medictation even though she can see that the patient is addicted to them...

I'm sure this frustrates your wife no end, knowing better than those who write scripts. Pharmacists tend to be much better informed and far more willing to give information about drugs than the doctors who prescribe those drugs.

 

[Sensorei]

I guess you haven't sifted through the web site I posted earlier?

That article is rediculous. Biased statistics. Like getting a jewish rabbi to give an honest review on Pork fillet with a crayfish starter.

I come from a hEaVy partying background as a youngster with every drug you can think of and to my surprise NA is the only thing that helped (after many visits to rehab) many of my mates who couldn't get out and grow up. Granted, one of them will not hang around non NA people after being a bit 'brainwashed' but these guys would be dead otherwise. Now they are all clean 5-10 years. I don't personally buy into the 12 step doctrine as a reliable cure but I have seen it work wonders in many. Some people just grow up. Some need Methadone, some need God, some need rehab but some need NA.

 

[HyperBudgie]

I'm sure this frustrates your wife no end, knowing better than those who write scripts. Pharmacists tend to be much better informed and far more willing to give information about drugs than the doctors who prescribe those drugs.

She often has to phone the doctors because the doctors prscribe medication that has massive contra-indications with the existing medication the patient is already taking....Doctors don't really check to see what affect the prescribed drug will have in conjunction with the patient's chronic meds for example....

 

[HyperBudgie]

That article is rediculous. Biased statistics. Like getting a jewish rabbi to give an honest review on Pork fillet with a crayfish starter.

I come from a hEaVy partying background as a youngster with every drug you can think of and to my surprise NA is the only thing that helped (after many visits to rehab) many of my mates who couldn't get out and grow up. Granted, one of them will not hang around non NA people after being a bit 'brainwashed' but these guys would be dead otherwise. Now they are all clean 5-10 years. I don't personally buy into the 12 step doctrine as a reliable cure but I have seen it work wonders in many. Some people just grow up. Some need Methadone, some need God, some need rehab but some need NA.

NA works for alot of people...Just wasn't my thing and I preffered one-on-one therapy....

 

[Sherbang]

That article is rediculous. Biased statistics. Like getting a jewish rabbi to give an honest review on Pork fillet with a crayfish starter.

I come from a hEaVy partying background as a youngster with every drug you can think of and to my surprise NA is the only thing that helped (after many visits to rehab) many of my mates who couldn't get out and grow up. Granted, one of them will not hang around non NA people after being a bit 'brainwashed' but these guys would be dead otherwise. Now they are all clean 5-10 years. I don't personally buy into the 12 step doctrine as a reliable cure but I have seen it work wonders in many. Some people just grow up. Some need Methadone, some need God, some need rehab but some need NA.

I have to agree with Sensorei on this one. Although research shows that AA/NA is not the most effective treatment option, it is the most widely availble and it does have a good success rate. All the addicts I know well who are clean today (12 in total) did it with help from NA/AA. And while 13th step relationships do happen it is not the norm, it is normal and inevitable however that intimate (non-sexual) relationships will develop as opening up emotionally, sharing your experiences, fears and hopes and giving support is part of the process.

Let me be clear - I do think that there are better options to AA/NA, for example SMART (http://www.smartrecovery.org/).

 

[Sherbang]

She often has to phone the doctors because the doctors prscribe medication that has massive contra-indications with the existing medication the patient is already taking....Doctors don't really check to see what affect the prescribed drug will have in conjunction with the patient's chronic meds for example....

You need a new doctor. My doctor would never prescribe anything without first checking what medications I'm on and retaking a full family history to find potential problems.

 

[Dolby]

joelus - you part of NA/AA or something similar ?

 

[Sherbang]

joelus - you part of NA/AA or something similar ?

No, I'm just really interested in the subject and have been for many years.
I actually think out of all the recovery options I've read about, investigated, AA/NA is the least effective, but it is not an evil cult - although, being so widesperead, experiences are bound to differ from group to group and some place more emphasis on the religious aspect which I don't like much - I myself could never do AA/NA, as an atheist I have a problem with acknowledging a 'higher power'.

I've done a lot of reading and research and am currently studying addiction counselling part time. When I was in my 20's I used drugs a lot and so my social circles include a lot of people whose lives have been affected by addiction, mostly alcohol and heroin (including 2 who died from overdoses and 1 who ended up in a psychiatric institution).

 

[Dolby]

Then you've probably read through this ... ? If not and you are interested in the research, then this is probably the best site I've ever come across.

http://www.orange-papers.org/ and specifically it's effectiveness http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-effectiveness.html

FYI, 13th stepping is the norm and is a huge problem within the cult. There are numerous cases about it happening world wide. In the group I went to, most had been approached by others and sleeping with each. In fact some guys *go* there to pick up the fresh meat.

Apart from the author, I'm probabyl the most anti-NA/AA person I know.

Over the past few decades, may studies have been carried out on the effectiveness with most coming between a 95%-100% failure rate. You'll also read on this site (and other sites) that the spontaneous remission rate is about 5% anyway - meaning NA/AA is doing nothing. I mean, after a year, 95% of members have left regardless ...

Other research put them at a worse than 0% recovery (negative) rate. My exgirlfriend tells me she started using after attending a meeting, which she hadn't done for a while.

The poster earlier mentioned 5 years clean? Only 1.5% of members stay clean long enough to get that. So 1000 join, 950 are gone by year end and 1 gets the 5 year clean coin. You could argue it 'helped' him - but at the same time you could argue he is one of the spontaneus remission cases.

 

[Sherbang]

Then you've probably read through this ... ? If not and you are interested in the research, then this is probably the best site I've ever come across.

http://www.orange-papers.org/ and specifically it's effectiveness http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-effectiveness.html

FYI, 13th stepping is the norm and is a huge problem within the cult. There are numerous cases about it happening world wide. In the group I went to, most had been approached by others and sleeping with each. In fact some guys *go* there to pick up the fresh meat.

Apart from the author, I'm probabyl the most anti-NA/AA person I know.

Over the past few decades, may studies have been carried out on the effectiveness with most coming between a 95%-100% failure rate. You'll also read on this site (and other sites) that the spontaneous remission rate is about 5% anyway - meaning NA/AA is doing nothing.

Other research put them at a worse than 0% recovery (negative) rate. My exgirlfriend tells me she started using after attending a meeting, which she had'nt done for a while.

I have read some of this site, though not all of it. The person obviously has an agenda (as do you) and I haven't had time to check his facts or assertions, although it does seem to be well researched and he does provide references.

Dolby, I can only talk from the people I know personally who have benefited from being involved in AA or NA. I know many who didn't, but for some it works. While 13th stepping may be the norm, the people I know who went into AA didn't experience that. Perhaps because some of them are older and married, that makes a difference, I don't know. What I do know is that none of them developed romantic or sexual relationships with people they know from these meetings and many are grateful to have a sponsor they can call when times are tough. I think we both agree that there are better alternatives and can only hope that these become more mainstream and available.

 

[Dolby]

Better alternatives are friends, family and support.

PS No agenda on my side. As I say, my girlfriend went in, I went to see what the fuss was about, picked up something was 'off' with the group and started doing my own research.

Read the introduction of the author. He was an alcoholic himself for many, many years and attended himself. He also picked up and started researching. Every bit of reearch, link or statement has a reference. Check the whole site out when you're free.

Until then, we'll agree to disagree

 

[Sensorei]

Dolby I disagree but I know where you are coming from. Losing a gf after 2.5 years because of NA doctrine is hard to deal with. My one NA buddy will not see his old friends because he is convinced we will some day be screwed because we still drink alcohol. Many of them think like that. But considering that the recovery rate from heroin is below 5%, if NA works for 2% of people then it is still an option. But yes, there are also the people who end up in NA after a few E's because of family pressure who don't even need NA/AA but they turn into NA Nazis. An ex of mine's family sent her to Noupoort and that place is the biggest cult of them all with the pretty disguise of healing through Christianity.

 

[Dolby]

Yea - I do perhaps hate it after losing her to that, I won't lie

You hit on another point : she was told to leave everything in her old life, even me. They convinced (or tried to) that I was the reason for her being there and she should avoid me at all costs. When she did see or talk to me, she had to lie to them because they'd get angry. WTF? I'm your typical non-smoking, non-drugging and occasionaly drinking computing geek - I thought it was a joke :/

Anyway *whistle*

 

[HyperBudgie]

You need a new doctor. My doctor would never prescribe anything without first checking what medications I'm on and retaking a full family history to find potential problems.

I don't need a new doctor...But....there are those out there that don't check...Wouldn't thimk of asking....Doctors at the Medicross production line don't tend to spend enough quality time with their patients...NOT ALL doctors but it does happen....The doctor might not be aware of a patient such as myself who is on Lithium that is prescribed by my psychiatrist and the GP doesn't know that I'm on Lithium...It is also up to the patient to let their GP know that they are on chronic medication...Just to play it safe..

 

[HyperBudgie]

Yea - I do perhaps hate it after losing her to that, I won't lie

You hit on another point : she was told to leave everything in her old life, even me. They convinced (or tried to) that I was the reason for her being there and she should avoid me at all costs. When she did see or talk to me, she had to lie to them because they'd get angry. WTF? I'm your typical non-smoking, non-drugging and occasionaly drinking computing geek - I thought it was a joke :/

Anyway *whistle*

There are "rules" at NA /AA....The reason I didn't go and the reason NA didn't work for me is because it has strong religious ties to christianity....