ADSL Service

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bobs_uncle

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Looking at all the different service providers and so on, they all seem to claim an uncapped service, however they themselves are being capped by their supplier (SAIX/IS/etc).

At the moment, I am offering a 20:1 contention ratio service to ADSL subscribers. Just something to give you a boost when you are already capped. The line speed that the contention is placed on is a 768kbps diginet line (so its uncapped and unlimited). So the maths says:

Each client (assuming all 20 users are online @ once) get:

(768 / 20)*90% = 34.56 *note the 90% is considered true bandwidth)
34.56 / 8 = 4.32KBps

So the least you'll ever get from the service is 4.32KB/s throughput bustable up to 86.4 KB/s.

Its a basic setup and generally rule-of-thumb you'll get about 10KB/s average. Also local traffic does not apply to this setup, so you'll still receive your full 512kbps local traffic.

This is just a start system. We are looking at supplying uncapped and unlimited 5:1, 3:1 and 1:1 service, however these will be substantially more expensive. But those are future projects for now. Anyhow, back to what I was talking about.

The 20:1 service goes for a R100/p on a month-to-month contract. We won't bind you to a contract such as other providers do, however the standard 30day in advanced clause does apply still. There is no port shaping, however HTTP and MAIL ports are higher priority giving quick web and mail access.

There is a once off setup fee of R150. There are 2 options with this service.
  1. You may use a proxy based service
  2. You may use our VPN based service

The proxy based service requires that you setup a proxy for each of the clients you'd like to use, such as Internet Explorer, Kazaa and so forth.

The VPN based service uses a VPN tunnel to our local server and set itself as your default gateway.

Also included in your R100/m you get an email address with up to 5 alias and a mail quota of 5mb.

As mentioned, this is just a test service at the moment. I'd like to take it further as things grow.

We are currently offering a business solution which is a 3:1 ADSL service. Once again our backbone runs off a Diginet line, and is therfore uncapped and unlimited. The 3:1 options gives you a guaranteed 170kbps burstable to 512kbps. However this service is R950 ex vat.

Anyway, just thought I'd bring that to light.

PM if you'd like more info!
 
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Your system would only be able to handle 20 users, 20x100 = 2000. Does not justify the cost of a 768kbps diginet line, as those are quite expensive.

Wool + my eyes != covered
 
bobs_uncle said:
At the moment, I am offering a 20:1 contention ratio service to ADSL subscribers. Just something to give you a boost when you are already capped. The line speed that the contention is placed on is a 768kbps diginet line (so its uncapped and unlimited). So the maths says:

Each client (assuming all 20 users are online @ once) get:

(768 / 20)*90% = 34.56 *note the 90% is considered true bandwidth)
34.56 / 8 = 4.32KBps

So the least you'll ever get from the service is 4.32KB/s throughput bustable up to 86.4 KB/s.
Click to expand...

i see a mistake here. what about the peering link? if you are using the same circuit for peering, then expect roughly half of 4.32Kb/s for each user, as the traffic has to get to your proxy server over the 768k/s line first before being routed internationally...
this is the fudamental issue that i have with all the proxy servers available out there - they are misreporting available bandwidth because they are not including the inbound connections!
 
MansoN said:
How does it work? Do you connect via a proxy? Or is it a seperate account you connect with..
Click to expand...
You can choose, ultimately a VPN tunnel is the best option, as some internet services don't always have proxy support built into the software. Anyhow, you use your normal ADSL account you currently own.

noone said:
Your system would only be able to handle 20 users, 20x100 = 2000. Does not justify the cost of a 768kbps diginet line, as those are quite expensive.

Wool + my eyes != covered
Click to expand...
Well the 768kb line is just part of our total bandwidth which is more than amply covered and recent statistics show that we have roughly 768kb - 1mb bandwidth available.

ScrnScrm said:
i see a mistake here. what about the peering link? if you are using the same circuit for peering, then expect roughly half of 4.32Kb/s for each user, as the traffic has to get to your proxy server over the 768k/s line first before being routed internationally...
this is the fudamental issue that i have with all the proxy servers available out there - they are misreporting available bandwidth because they are not including the inbound connections!
Click to expand...
Firstly, what does that nick stand for? Anyhow, back to your statement. True about the peering, however, I am not using the diginet as the dial-in line. The diginet is only for international access. As an ADSL subscriber you'll access our service via our ADSL line (which is on a DDNS name with a TTL of 5secs) which once authenticated, you are rerouted via the diginet line to the internet. Hence no peering.

Look, I'll be honest here as I do not want to start something and lie to potential customers about services I can never dream of offering. There are no inbound connections on the diginet line besides email (as I will be running an email server for clients to access email). All email is relayed to our local ISP that holds the ADSL account (IS) via the adsl connection, keeping outgoing email off the diginet. As far as I can see, I can pretty much guarantee you that speed and more.

Any other comments?
 
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Okay, the incoming connections would be via your ADSL line.

512k down
256k up

Meaning, that for the 20 clients you wish to connect, you would only be able to send 256k*90% to 20 odd clients at any one time. 1.44kb/s per client if all 20 clients require a download at the same time.

And even if your diginet is capable of 768k-1Mpbs, it's unable to send that to the ADSL line as the ADSL line is only able to download at 512k.

The ADSL line would then be, in effect, your bottle neck.

Or am I under the wrong impression?
 
Noble_Nanobot said:
Are your services for the anyone in ZA or only in Nelspruit?
Click to expand...

Hmkay, you must be hit over the head....

If you have an ADSL line, it means you can connect to the internet right? If someone then decides to put up a proxy server for international uncapped downloads WITHIN the borders of, let's say, South Africa, you would still be able to access that proxy server with your ADSL line, being connected to the internet and all.

And this is the remarkable thing about the internet, a user in hong kong, can then connect via the proxy server within South Africa, to route his bandwidth through.

Apparently, the internet is a great way to get on the net.

<edit>Unless Nelspruit is a different country...</edit>
 
Bwahahah nice one noone.

Hmm you raise a good point, but I hopefully have covered that issue. I am going to running a 4 concurrent ADSL sessions which will then be setup on one host name using Round-Robin load-balancing. So in regards to your concern, lets do some maths:

((4 * 256)*90%) / 8 = 115.2KB/s *note, this is theritical speed!

115.2KB / 20 clients = 5.76KB throughput.

Once again this assumes EVERYONE is accessing it at once, which covers the 4.32KBps minimum international speed I guarantee. If need be when the company grows, I'll apply for maybe 2 more fixed ADSL lines. But at the moment, I think the 4 concurrent connections should handle the 20 clients. So I would say that its covered? Unless I have missed something?

The theory is, say 20 clients, equal load balance, means 5 clients per ADSL session (as I have 4 concurrent connections to the ADSL cloud). So:

((512 / 5)*90%) / 8) = 11.52KB downstream at full usage
((256 / 5)*90%) / 8) = 5.76KB upstream at full usage

Once again, an assumption that all clients are online at once!
 
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I can't see how you can make money...
4 ADSL lines plus a diginet 768-1Meg is going to cost WAAAAY more than 20*R100=R2000.
In fact the 4 ADSL lines cost more than that!

No offence, and you are welcome to correct me if I'm wrong, but this sounds too good to be true....
 
arf9999 said:
I can't see how you can make money...
4 ADSL lines plus a diginet 768-1Meg is going to cost WAAAAY more than 20*R100=R2000.
In fact the 4 ADSL lines cost more than that!

No offence, and you are welcome to correct me if I'm wrong, but this sounds too good to be true....
Click to expand...

Hmmm you misunderstood. I am running 4 accounts off one ADSL line concurrently.

Also, the costs are already covered. In a previous post I mentioned this bandwidth is left over, and what other way to utilize it than to offer a *good* service to adsl clients. The point here is not to make a profit, but rather offer consumers better options that what is currently available. Since we are running diginet as our backbone I can guarantee uncapped unlimited service on my side. Whether telkom doesn't step in a cap adsl accounts is a different story altogether.

In regards to sounding "too good to be true". Well Its nothing fantastic, as its not a 1:1 connection, however, its aimed at the home user. Also, this is merely a test service (although it is a permanent service). Sound this prove successful enough, we will be looking at offering true uncapped unlimited 5:1, 3:1 and 1:1 ADSL services.
 
4 concurrent accounts off 1 ADSL line, if that was possible, everyone would be doing it and have 2 meg internet connections.

Provided they'd be capped really quickly... As for the round robin load balancing, I can understand that, not the 1 ADSL line serving over 2 meg (even if it's spread over 4 accounts)

Right?
 
noone said:
4 concurrent accounts off 1 ADSL line, if that was possible, everyone would be doing it and have 2 meg internet connections.

Provided they'd be capped really quickly... As for the round robin load balancing, I can understand that, not the 1 ADSL line serving over 2 meg (even if it's spread over 4 accounts)

Right?
Click to expand...
Have you ever tried it? Create 4 accounts on your PC and dialup with each one? Well anyway, yes it actually is possible, else I wouldn't be posting here!

With the round robin, you assign each ip address of each dial-up (ppp1,ppp2,ppp3,etc..) to the dns name. When your PC does a lookup it randomly selects an ip to connect to. Like I said, its a theoretical application, but it does work, else I wouldn't be posting here.

If I may ask, why is everyone so critical about such a service? Is it due to the allyoucaneat incident?
 
Have you ever tried it? Create 4 accounts on your PC and dialup with each one? Well anyway, yes it actually is possible, else I wouldn't be posting here!
Click to expand...

ok, yes you can dialup 4 times, but they all 4 are still limited to the line's 512kbit speed, so its 4 accounts sharing 512kbit. Now just what exactly is the use of using round robin load balancing over that?
 
bobs_uncle said:
Have you ever tried it? Create 4 accounts on your PC and dialup with each one? Well anyway, yes it actually is possible, else I wouldn't be posting here!

With the round robin, you assign each ip address of each dial-up (ppp1,ppp2,ppp3,etc..) to the dns name. When your PC does a lookup it randomly selects an ip to connect to. Like I said, its a theoretical application, but it does work, else I wouldn't be posting here.

If I may ask, why is everyone so critical about such a service? Is it due to the allyoucaneat incident?
Click to expand...

Not only that, but EVERY service provider EVER has tried to screw it's customers. Thats why we're so critical and this is why this website exists.

Please answer Tinuva
 
Tinuva said:
ok, yes you can dialup 4 times, but they all 4 are still limited to the line's 512kbit speed, so its 4 accounts sharing 512kbit. Now just what exactly is the use of using round robin load balancing over that?
Click to expand...

OOO thats a smack in the face. I was under the impression that an ADSL line is capable of 2mb/s. If that is the case, then I appologize, it was a miscalculation. Therefore, your connections to me will be over a single 512kb/s link (unless I put in a second line).

Well to put simply, the link to me is an ADSL link. From there, you are routed via the Diginet link. So therefore, a couple of posts back noone raised the point that the bottle-neck would be the ADSL line. so I guess it boils down to this equation:

Downstream:
(( 512 / 20 ) * 90% ) / 8 = 2.88KB/s
Once again this equation applies to a full load!

Upstream:
(( 256 / 20 ) * 90% ) / 8 = 1.44KB/s
Once again this equation applies to a full load!

A person asked me what were the limits to using this service. Well there are no limits. Obviously there is a bit of shaping (less the shaping in the ADSL cloud). Basically I am going to be prioritizing WEB and MAIL traffic. Other than that, there is no other limits. you may use and abuse the service, but due to the traffic control, everyone gets their fair share.

In reply to noone, I understand that service provides have tried to rip you guys off horribly. But in all honesty, I am not trying to rip you off, nor am I trying to make a profit out of this service. Thats no the point. We have bandwidth available to us, so we are supplying it to people that need it. For R100 a month on a month-to-month contract, well I can't see me trying to screw you over. I suppose if I enforced a certain contract (such as a annual) then I would be suspect. But I am giving you the freedom to use the service, and cancel it should you not be happy with a 30 day notice. Thats all I ask is 30 days.

Daily bandwidth graphs are reported, and accessible by the clients, so that you can see you are using your allocated bandwidth. What must I do to prove that I am not in the business of taking you (the client) for an expensive joy ride less the joy? I am open to suggestions at all times!

If there is anything else you would like to know?
 
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Thanks for the reply.

Theoretically ADSL lines are capable of more than 2mb, the thing is I think Telkom's hardware only allows for 512k, I'm speaking under correction of course.

Instead of going out and starting all of this (setting up servers etc) have you thought of approaching Clipse (from nukecap.co.za) to resell the bandwidth you have? They already have an infrastructure in place, and I feel that all you basically have to do is coordinate with him and resell to him the bandwidth you have available and let him worry about the client base/servers etc.

Just a thought.
 
noone said:
Thanks for the reply.

Theoretically ADSL lines are capable of more than 2mb, the thing is I think Telkom's hardware only allows for 512k, I'm speaking under correction of course.

Instead of going out and starting all of this (setting up servers etc) have you thought of approaching Clipse (from nukecap.co.za) to resell the bandwidth you have? They already have an infrastructure in place, and I feel that all you basically have to do is coordinate with him and resell to him the bandwidth you have available and let him worry about the client base/servers etc.

Just a thought.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the thought.

The servers are already setup, and everything is ready to go, but now its just getting the clients in :) Ofcourse, its still a bit crash-course (thats being honest) as it hasn't been tested in a live enviroment, however, our business accounts (5:1, 3:1 and 1:1) services are running quite comfortably.

At the end of the day, I would like to have a proper uncapped and unlimited service to ADSL users. I only found out about nukecap yesterday. What is their service like? I see they are only offering a 30:1 ratio. And for more than what I am offering.

Like I mentioned, everything is already setup. Servers, lines and traffic control systems.

Honestly, would people be interested in this service? In the long run, the goal is to have 30 ADSL lines (not concurrent sessions). Each client will roughly share an ADSL line between 3/5 people. So throughput will be massive, and ofcourse we'll u8pgrade the lines to about 5mb :)
 
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