Advice on best inverter solution for my needs

leon.davibe said:
think about it a trolley with 10A charge means all that is usable is 512wh that is all you can charge back
so you pay R8k for a lead acid battery and slow charge so even if you add a lithium later you just have a reserve tank but if you can never refill it it is a one time reserve tank

ie if really using next to nothing i would say these two badly matched devices is still better than a trolley as long as you never pull more than 500w as you still only have the 500wh capcity for the same price but limited on peak output by bms in battery 50a, later if you add extra battery parralel you can use 1kw if needed

but then you have a lithium for the same price


www.electromannsa.com

SUN NM-2000-12 2KVA 12v Pure Sine Wave Hybrid Solar Inverter

SUN 2KVA 12v Pure Sine Wave Hybrid Solar Inverter 24V to 230V with 80A MPPT Charge Controller and AC Charger (10005952) Package Contents: 1x Hybrid Inverter 1x User Manual 2x DC Battery Cables
www.electromannsa.com www.electromannsa.com

Click to expand...
OK, this is now all Greek to me. If I buy that Sun-NM thingie, do I still need a battery? Sorry... I don't understand all this stuff at all!
 
ros_b said:
I live in a complex. Putting solar panels onto my roof is not an option. I live alone, and can quite happily get by for 3 hours with no backup system at all. My laptop runs for 3 hours, my Wifi is provided by a 4G modem whose battery seems to cope fine for 3 hours. I don't watch TV so can watch stuff on my laptop. Light is provided by a rechargeable lamp. I have one of those little butane stoves to boil water for coffee or heat up food. So it's only Stage 5 or worse that is an issue, and my main concern is my fridge and then running my laptop and wifi modem for maybe an hour or two. My fridge says its power consumption is 263 kWh/year. It's a Defy D210, so smallish, with a little two-shelf freezer compartment above the fridge. Please can you helpful folk advise on my best option. Thanks!
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A workable solution for the fridge /freezer is to add a couple of 2l bottles of water to retain the temperature and not to power it during loadshedding. For what you state you need to power I suggest
https://www.geewiz.co.za/long-run-u...life-kit-600w-with-lithium-battery-640wh.html
 
ros_b said:
OK, this is now all Greek to me. If I buy that Sun-NM thingie, do I still need a battery? Sorry... I don't understand all this stuff at all!
Click to expand...
ie the trolley is a cabinet with a inverter/charger/solar charge controller plus a battery

the sun inverter is essentially just half of the trolley setup
then you still have to buy the battery that is where the makro battery comes in it is a small capacity one ie 50ah
ie but will give you the same storage capacity as the trolley's 100ah lead acid

but therectically you will get more capacity as the lead acid is susceptible to peukert losses if you pull anything more than 5w, while the lithium isn't

so yes it will add some sundries cost ie breaker/fuse for battery and it's cables and the cable/multiplug to put a charging lead on the inverter and multiplug on output side but this is the price you pay for having a better product ie inverter and battery
 
the combo jarrod suggested is smaller output inverter and better paired inverter for battery size(same as i said)

and has the cabling included
someone that knows the product can just chime in with it's charge rate
ie if it is 10A although the battery is 640wh you are limited to the 512wh the inverter can charge in 4hrs ,if you are sure this will never become a limiting factor this is cheaper option than my suggestion, but limiting future expansion


and based on your explanation this may be the case and you can take cheaper option
but gotta confirm what the peak pull on the fridge is, ie that it can in fact startup on the lower output inverter

if it can charge at 20A expansion on capacity is possible but not peak load ie can't use more devices at the same time but can use for longer if you bought more batteries
 
leon.davibe said:
the combo jarrod suggested is smaller output inverter and better paired inverter for battery size(same as i said)

and has the cabling included
someone that knows the product can just chime in with it's charge rate
ie if it is 10A although the battery is 640wh you are limited to the 512wh the inverter can charge in 4hrs ,if you are sure this will never become a limiting factor this is cheaper option than my suggestion, but limiting future expansion


and based on your explanation this may be the case and you can take cheaper option
but gotta confirm what the peak pull on the fridge is, ie that it can in fact startup on the lower output inverter

if it can charge at 20A expansion on capacity is possible but not peak load ie can't use more devices at the same time but can use for longer if you bought more batteries
Click to expand...
I think you are in the wrong thread. I have the same/similar setup as the OP. We ONLY need backup for our laptops everything is sorted. As for fridges I recommend freezing water bottles for extended loadshedding. No need for all the batteries etc.
 
Something like this will be great. Maybe a 1kva option.

Axpert Type 1KVA-5KVA Hybrid Inverter (Viking's Review)

Disclaimer: All information is for educational purposes only. Always use a qualified electrician to alter,modify or add to the equipment. Electricity can kill. Notice something is wrong? Switch it off and phone the manufacturer for advice. I do not take any responsibility for information that is...
mybroadband.co.za mybroadband.co.za
 
ros_b said:
OK, this is now all Greek to me. If I buy that Sun-NM thingie, do I still need a battery? Sorry... I don't understand all this stuff at all!
Click to expand...

Most of these guys think people have the time to learn a whole new language even though you've clearly said you're new to this stuff.

For your wifi modem, get something like this:


Or this:

Takealot.com: Online Shopping | SA's leading online store

South Africa's leading online store. Fast, reliable delivery to your door. Many ways to pay. Shop anything you can imagine: TVs, laptops, cellphones, kitchen appliances, toys, books, beauty & more. Shop the mobile app anytime, anywhere.
www.takealot.com www.takealot.com

For your laptop, you could get anything from this:

BLUETTI EB3A Portable Power Station - 600W / 268Wh / Pure Sine Wave (EU Socket - SA adapter included) - GeeWiz

BLUETTI EB3A Portable Power Station - 600W / 268Wh / Pure Sine Wave (EU Socket - SA adapter included) for sale online at the Best Prices! Door to Door and Overnight Delivery
www.geewiz.co.za www.geewiz.co.za

to:


For your Defy D210, I'm not sure because you need to spec something that caters for it's surge/startup power. I can't check that online because the only site with the manual has errors on it.

Depending on the surge specs for the fridge, you could probably get a portable power station to run both your fridge and charge your laptop.

You could also use a trolley solution, but most places have back orders that are weeks long.
 
Dan C said:
I think you are in the wrong thread. I have the same/similar setup as the OP. We ONLY need backup for our laptops everything is sorted. As for fridges I recommend freezing water bottles for extended loadshedding. No need for all the batteries etc.
Click to expand...

This isn't the first time Leon has suggested someone build something when they've said they are clearly new to this stuff...
 
Thanks, Zolly, your info is most helpful. I'm thinking the wifi modem could probably just run off my Romoss Pulse 10 powerbank? It managed just over 3 hours this evening on its own battery so surely the powerbank would handle the other hour?

I wonder how I could find out the surge specs for the fridge? I wouldn't need to power the fridge and the laptop at the same time - I'd give the fridge 2 hours and the laptop 2 hours.

Can someone explain the numbers on these portable power stations? The Bluetti one that Zolly linked to says 600W / 268Wh with 1200W surge, while the Ecoflow says 256Wh and I think 300W with 600W surge.
 
zolly said:
This isn't the first time Leon has suggested someone build something when they've said they are clearly new to this stuff...
Click to expand...
See your point this is daunting for some, not all are fine with doing something new especially if it is technical

I get it i am a bit more adventurous ie i started building my first timber home with a hammer, cutoff saw , pik and a spade

If you can wire a plug the inverter isn't exactly rocket science

Connecting an inverter is kinda like wiring two plugs and changing your car battery and adding a breaker inline for the battery wire

The inverter has most of the protections ie overload etc

I get the portable device you buy is just plug and play

You only get 268wh for the same cost as the geewiz 640wh

And a bit more cost 1280wh

If you can afford the premium and is fine with paying it and would rather skirt away from something new

then yes i agree buy the portable power brick
 
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ros_b said:
Thanks, Zolly, your info is most helpful. I'm thinking the wifi modem could probably just run off my Romoss Pulse 10 powerbank? It managed just over 3 hours this evening on its own battery so surely the powerbank would handle the other hour?

I wonder how I could find out the surge specs for the fridge? I wouldn't need to power the fridge and the laptop at the same time - I'd give the fridge 2 hours and the laptop 2 hours.

Can someone explain the numbers on these portable power stations? The Bluetti one that Zolly linked to says 600W / 268Wh with 1200W surge, while the Ecoflow says 256Wh and I think 300W with 600W surge.
Click to expand...
The 600w is the continuous power you can use ie the fridge is less than that
The surge is for devices that draw way more power during startup ie normally inductive loads which your fridge is

So it can start up the fridge or any device that can draw up to 1200w at startup

ie have seen some say they have seen 750w at startup of their fridge , naturally all aren't created equal
The newer stuff tend to be more efficient and less demand

The kill-a-watt meter is a handy tool in determining this

But by slightly over spec the device you know it will work

ie the 1kw inverter will easily cover that need

The 268wh is for how long you can run the fridge ie if your fridge uses 268w you can run it for an hour

If it is 134w you can run it for 2 hours

ie wh is x watts for an hour

You can however use it as you please ie the 268wh will run a laptop that uses 50w for over 5hrs naturally there are losses ie you don't always get out what you put in the inverter consumes some of the power and is lost as heat
 
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There are a lot of options for the internet/network. Gizzu is the better-known name around town but I do have a Noname that works just as well

For example, I have
a cheap 10400 mAH Noname keeping my network hub in office up and running (8 hours easy)
Gizzu 60W is powering my Fibre, Wifi and Network hub in the lounge (Well over 6 hours)
So in short its a none issue

The real problem:
When I tested my Fridge/Freezer with a Kill-A-Watt Idle is about 35W and the Compressor spike 600W for 1 millisecond and then drop to 200-230W for about 10-30 min's depending on internal temp.
^ That info is what made me pick the Kool 1KW pure sine PPS

Edit: PS: worth educating yourself if you really wanna learn:
Will reccomend: https://woodgears.ca/heating/freezer.html

Edit2: Oh and maybe look/swicth to UHT milk, last longer ;)
 
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ros_b said:
Thanks, Zolly, your info is most helpful. I'm thinking the wifi modem could probably just run off my Romoss Pulse 10 powerbank? It managed just over 3 hours this evening on its own battery so surely the powerbank would handle the other hour?
Click to expand...

I am not a big fan of powerbanks. My first and only one basically almost blew up on me. Also, I think they are slow as hell to recharge. But yes, you could probably get away with a power bank with the right connectors.


ros_b said:
I wonder how I could find out the surge specs for the fridge? I wouldn't need to power the fridge and the laptop at the same time - I'd give the fridge 2 hours and the laptop 2 hours.
Click to expand...

It might be on the fridge at the back like with a microwave? You'd still need to cater for the peak of the fridge unfortunately. Your solution needs to handle the spike from the fridge in order to work at all or your fridge just won't turn on.

ros_b said:
Can someone explain the numbers on these portable power stations? The Bluetti one that Zolly linked to says 600W / 268Wh with 1200W surge, while the Ecoflow says 256Wh and I think 300W with 600W surge.
Click to expand...

There are basically three numbers here. The first is the average maximum draw that the inverter will put out, the second is the storage capacity of the batteries in the unit, and the third is the very short term peak that a unit can supply. So for example:

600w - The max the inverter can handle over a longer period of time.

268wh - The amount of "gas in the tank", or total power you will get. In this case it's 268 watts running at max for an hour. (It's important to note that it's usually only about 80% of this actual number since there are some losses due to the inverter).

1200w - This is how much surge draw the inverter in the unit can handle for a few seconds.
 
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zolly said:
I am not a big fan of powerbanks. My first and only one basically almost blew up on me. Also, I think they are slow as hell to recharge. But yes, you could probably get away with a power bank with the right connectors.




It might be on the fridge at the back like with a microwave? You'd still need to cater for the peak of the fridge unfortunately. Your solution needs to handle the spike from the fridge in order to work at all or your fridge just won't turn on.



There are basically three numbers here. The first is the average maximum draw that the inverter will put out, the second is the storage capacity, and the third is the very short term peak that a unit can supply. So for example:

600w - The max the inverter can handle over a longer period of time.

268wh - The amount of "gas in the tank", or total power you will get. In this case it's 268 watts running at max for an hour. (It's important to note that it's usually only about 80% of this actual number since there are some losses due to the inverter).

1200w - This is how much surge draw the inverter in the unit can handle for a few seconds.
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Yea power banks based li-ion 3.7cells are a fire risk if things go wrong

The lifep04 cells less so and they last more cycles
 
With inverters there is two approaches

They are wallet dependant

We all happily pay a convenience premium on certain items/services

ie plumbing pipe(sewage) has a leak the part is R50 and labour is easy (quickfix) you still pay the plumber the R500or whatever cause you dont want to work with sewage pipe

Inverter is kinda like that

The really pretty/branded units come at a horrible price per KW

Sometimes the premium has value ie reliability

But if many have used the cheaper item and showed that it's rather reliable too then the premium feels a bit wasted

So if you buy a branded item with capacity that barely covers your need (due to budget constraint)vs a cheaper unit with more capacity you are just as likely to experience a problem

I work from the assumption that if people ask questions/advice they are at the point where they don't want to pay the premium and are willing to "connect the wires"

Maybe this assumption is wrong apologies
 
leon.davibe said:
Yea power banks based li-ion 3.7cells are a fire risk if things go wrong

The lifep04 cells less so and they last more cycles
Click to expand...

Good luck trying to find cheap LFP's.

I have 2 of the older 20 000mha powerbanks that was about R230 back in the day. Used it Pre-PPS era to power the radio and charge phones/lights when camping. ie: served its purpose.

They do take a looong time to charge. I recall something like 8+ hours so not really ideal for Stage 6.
 
leon.davibe said:
We all happily pay a convenience premium on certain items/services
.....
I work from the assumption that if people ask questions/advice they are at the point where they don't want to pay the premium and are willing to "connect the wires"
Click to expand...

Yeah, fair enough. Your points are valid. In my case, though, I understand so little about this stuff.... and not sure I have the capacity to ever really understand it no matter how much I read up on it.
 
by going over spec on the inverter it reduces the chance of landing in a situation that you have a device that can't run what you want due to miscalculation, and naturally we tend to expand our expectations from inverters not decrease it

hence why i suggested the inverter ie worst case scenario you could run the fridge and the devices you need ie internet laptop etc at the same time in perfect storm days

and if the battery size is too little you can just add more batteries

this unit that alphajohn suggested takes away all diy and come with a bit bigger battery that can run all your devices for 4hrs and recharge in 4hrs


www.firstshop.co.za

Mecer 1kVA 1kW Lithium Battery Inverter Trolley with 50Ah Lithium-ion Battery and 820W MPPT Controller SOL-I-BB-M1L

Mecer 1kVA 1kW Lithium Battery Inverter Trolley with 50Ah Lithium-ion Battery and 820W MPPT Controller SOL-I-BB-M1L and other Mecer products available at FirstShop South-Africa. Price, availability and reviews for Mecer SOL-I-BB-M1L
www.firstshop.co.za www.firstshop.co.za


it is more than you need, but like i said the fridge you need to be sure the peak pull if you want to cater very close to it to keep costs low


ie the geewiz 640va might work but lets say your fridge trips it overload by a tiny bit there is nothing you can do except buy another device
 
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