Affirmative Action here forever

xtermin8or said:
short anecdote to illustrate my point

My wife is a qualified IT Professional from a designated group, she worked for an IT company for more than three years, they then appointed a young Afrikaans white guy, straight out of Matric, to head the Department she was working in, planning to have him study while working in this management position, this happened last year ( my wife left the company and has taken up a position elsewhere ) funny thing is, the guy still phones my wife to find out how to do certain things

If AA is not forced on white business, things in this country will not change
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Seems like a very doubtfull situation to me. No IT company worth their salt gives a **** what your skin color or gender is. My experience (20years thereof) in IT ... you get the job if you can do the job. There's no bullsh!tting and nowhere to hide if you can't deliver in this industry.
 
McSack said:
Seems like a very doubtfull situation to me. No IT company worth their salt gives a **** what your skin color or gender is. My experience (20years thereof) in IT ... you get the job if you can do the job. There's no bullsh!tting and nowhere to hide if you can't deliver in this industry.
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Think what you like this is what happened and this is unfortunately the attitude of white business. Before AA was introduced, there was a distinct lack of black managers or appointments, that is precisely why AA was introduced, but white business still tries to get around the legalities, therefore the AA has to be intensified
 
BobbyMac said:
Your personal experience is hardly scientific evidence. If it was admissible (which it isn't), then everyone that I know of who happens to be white and retrenched because of company policies to meet AA quotas nullifies your point entirely. And honestly, if you expect us to believe that a company employed a fresh matriculant as a manager above your wife based purely on skin colour, then you must really think we're all stupid. You really like talking k@k don't you?
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I never called it scientific, that's why I called it an anecdote, showing an attitude in one white owned company in South Africa, proving that the attitude existed in that company and may in all probability exist in other companies as well

Therefore all it does is show another side of the reality of the labour market in this country

On this company - they are so concerned about maintaining the superiority of the white male in the company, that even white women are discriminated against - one of the white female purchasers was passed over for promotion in lieu of a white man six years her junior in the company

They also employed a black women as a Sales Director, who was then given no decision making abilities, or even invited to attend management meetings, she left the company, but her name is still listed as a director
 
xtermin8or said:
Before AA was introduced, there was a distinct lack of black managers or appointments, that is precisely why AA was introduced, but white business still tries to get around the legalities, therefore the AA has to be intensified
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Or maybe it's because there weren't any suitably qualified black managers around yet? :rolleyes:
 
xtermin8or said:
I never called it scientific, that's why I called it an anecdote, showing an attitude in one white owned company in South Africa, proving that the attitude existed in that company and may in all probability exist in other companies as well

Therefore all it does is show another side of the reality of the labour market in this country

On this company - they are so concerned about maintaining the superiority of the white male in the company, that even white women are discriminated against - one of the white female purchasers was passed over for promotion in lieu of a white man six years her junior in the company

They also employed a black women as a Sales Director, who was then given no decision making abilities, or even invited to attend management meetings, she left the company, but her name is still listed as a director
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Your point was nullified. Move on.
 
xtermin8or said:
Or is it an attempt, by white owned and controlled business, to continue the oppression of the black man, by employing unskilled people, so as to have their numbers up, then employing white people to do the actual work, who then gain further skills and experience

Or is white business afraid to employ suitably qualified black people, as they are afraid their own white staff will be shown up
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The meek shall inherit the earth is a false statement, survival of the fittest is a more accurate one. Excluding nepotism and unjust laws, skill will show up the lack of skill every time, regardless of race, creed and religion!!!

It's a dog-eat-dog world out there and to be called a professional requires that you actually are one, with ability to back it. Charity is best left for the churches and not the business world as a charity is for giving and commerce is for taking!
 
Affirmative Action Sucks really bad.....

That's why Richardsbay Municipality got so much staff shortages, because they will stay without a staff member before even considering a white person for the job.

Come on.. Now the public have to receive crap service as well
 
Roo! said:
The meek shall inherit the earth is a false statement, survival of the fittest is a more accurate one. Excluding nepotism and unjust laws, skill will show up the lack of skill every time, regardless of race, creed and religion!!!

It's a dog-eat-dog world out there and to be called a professional requires that you actually are one, with ability to back it. Charity is best left for the churches and not the business world as a charity is for giving and commerce is for taking!
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Precisely, business is not a charity

oh ja, but all Africa can do is stand "bak hand" and receive charity from the rest of the world...
 
BobbyMac said:
Your point was nullified. Move on.
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Is that your counter argument - then I take it that my point was made

and I make that point again

Because of a lack of willingness by white business to transform, AA, BEE, BBBEE, and EE was introduced

The institution of these policies was not being adhered to, therefore, enforcement in terms of inspections started taking place

white business now ignores the legal parameters of AA and employ unsuitable people to positions, the reasons for this are many and varied and mainly speculative, but as pointed out by dlk001, is stupid as it is not sustainable

Many businesses continue to flout the legislation, prompting government to intensify the implementation of AA principles
 
what is the goal of a business ? to make money...
how does one make money ? investing in resources and people that CAN DO THEIR JOB
 
protzkrog said:
Precisely, business is not a charity

oh ja, but all Africa can do is stand "bak hand" and receive charity from the rest of the world...
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Oh please, you should know better, or your Apartheid upbringing and narrow mindedness is clearly showing through

South Africa has not asked for development funds from anyone, in fact when the President travels he promotes South Africa so as to gain foreign direct investment
 
protzkrog said:
what is the goal of a business ? to make money...
how does one make money ? investing in resources and people that CAN DO THEIR JOB
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yes in normal society, but South Africa is not a normal society, we have the majority black part of our society trying to make inroads into the economy and you have the previously advantaged white community desperately trying to cling on to economic power, and as the saying goes "deperate times call for desperate measures" and as stupid as it is, they will do anything to hold on to this power
 
xtermin8or said:
we have the majority black part of our society trying to make inroads into the economy and you have the previously advantaged white community desperately trying to cling on to economic power, and as the saying goes "deperate times call for desperate measures"
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they tried that in Zimbabwe...and we all know whats happening there, 1800% inflation...lol, go Bob!

the government should spend more money on education and training so the previously disadvantaged people and the currently disadvantaged people can compete on an EQUAL level for job posititions rather than on skin colour or race.
 
xtermin8or said:
Is that your counter argument - then I take it that my point was made

and I make that point again


Because of a lack of willingness by white business to transform, AA, BEE, BBBEE, and EE was introduced

The institution of these policies was not being adhered to, therefore, enforcement in terms of inspections started taking place

white business now ignores the legal parameters of AA and employ unsuitable people to positions, the reasons for this are many and varied and mainly speculative, but as pointed out by dlk001, is stupid as it is not sustainable

Many businesses continue to flout the legislation, prompting government to intensify the implementation of AA principles
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What a load of horse-kuk. BEE/AA was documented even before the ANC got in to the presidency...it was documented when FW de Klerk was president.

AA is an idealism.. its NOT working... all the government is using their OWN people as little pawns in a political ****-fight.

The well educated black-man RESENTS the fact that he got his job based on Tokenism, and wont join a company where he is treated as "Just an AA candidate", so how does AA help?

Most of the AA candidates I have worked with know that they are AA tokens and they dont tow the line - they in fact know that they wont AND cant get fired.

When you have BEE companies selling black-skin names just to get the shareholders names on BEE companies and the percentages up... how is this empowerment? Look at the big high profile companies... Most have all bought their BEE credits from a company that is run by members of parlament. Go research who run the BEE part of major corporations. Mkize's name will be on several

Is this what AA and BEE is about?
 
protzkrog said:
they tried that in Zimbabwe...and we all know whats happening there, 1800% inflation...lol, go Bob!
the government should spend more money on education and training so the previously disadvantaged people and the currently disadvantaged people can compete on an EQUAL level for job posititions rather than on skin colour or race.
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The situation in Zimbabwe is there because they ignored the situation for twenty years, AA and land reform in South Africa is an attempt at avoiding that situation
 
xtermin8or. Though I appreciate that you may not be very intelligent, please note the following: you tried to use your wife's experience as a point. It would have been fair enough, BUT, like an idiot you actually tried to tell us that a person fresh out of Matric was appointed as your wife's manager. Either that kid was a whizkid or more likely you're full of it (as per usual). And it ain't just me who saw through your BS sunshine. So if you wish to stress a point, keep within the bounds of the topic and don't try and draw in fictional stories to back up your so-called 'facts', okay?
 
RichardP said:
What a load of horse-kuk. BEE/AA was documented even before the ANC got in to the presidency...it was documented when FW de Klerk was president.
AA is an idealism.. its NOT working... all the government is using their OWN people as little pawns in a political ****-fight.

The well educated black-man RESENTS the fact that he got his job based on Tokenism, and wont join a company where he is treated as "Just an AA candidate", so how does AA help?

Most of the AA candidates I have worked with know that they are AA tokens and they dont tow the line - they in fact know that they wont AND cant get fired.

When you have BEE companies selling black-skin names just to get the shareholders names on BEE companies and the percentages up... how is this empowerment? Look at the big high profile companies... Most have all bought their BEE credits from a company that is run by members of parlament. Go research who run the BEE part of major corporations. Mkize's name will be on several

Is this what AA and BEE is about?
Click to expand...

The ANC understood the dynamics of the country and had plans in place, but it was only implemented after business was given a chance to transform on their own

the rest of your rantings are not a counter argument, but rather an enforcement of my previous point - white business is responsible for the poor implementation of AA
 
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