Affirmative Action

[RogueTr00per]

To have a good school u don't need money. You need three 'things' good teachers, keen students, and involved parents.

U do need money. U need it to pay the "good" teachers. U need it to provide a good support system for the kids so that they can be keen. The parents need to earn enuff that they can afford to be involved with their kids so that they don't have to work extremely long hours or two jobs to feed and shelter their kids.

 

[alpha777]

U do need money. U need it to pay the "good" teachers.

You don't need alot of money. Abe Lincoln was brought up in a shack. There are many other examples of people without much money and they were well educated. The government pays the teachers to educate all people.

U need it to provide a good support system for the kids so that they can be keen.

You don't need money to provide a good support system, you just need an involved parent, this does not take alot of money. Some cultures favor education some don't. A know quite alot of kids that have "nice support structures" and they are still not keen on school.

The parents need to earn enuff that they can afford to be involved with their kids so that they don't have to work extremely long hours or two jobs to feed and shelter their kids.

Poor people generally do not even have jobs, if you are umemployed use the time to educate and get involved in your kids lives!

 

[RogueTr00per]

You don't need alot of money. Abe Lincoln was brought up in a shack. There are many other examples of people without much money and they were well educated. The government pays the teachers to educate all people.

Look, no doubt some people have a determination to succeed and become great people no matter what the odds. Likewise some people will fail regardless of how much help they get. For the average person however, it helps to go to a good school with good teachers and to have involved parents. If you look at the good schools around cape town, there is no ways that what the government pays as a standard salary will suffice to keep the good teachers in those schools. Extra funds from expensive school fees pads their pay cheques to keep them there.

Yes, there are some teachers who aren't worried about how big their salaries are and are just there to make a difference in building the generation of tomorrow. not everyone has that luxury though, I would imagine. A friend's brother teaches math (i think) in one of the black schools here, and apparently their students are getting really good marks, even better than some of the more affluent schools. Surely it's obvious a school is only as good as the calibre of it's teachers? Students full potential is more easily reached when certain factors are in their favour.

You don't need money to provide a good support system, you just need an involved parent, this does not take alot of money. Some cultures favor education some don't. A know quite alot of kids that have "nice support structures" and they are still not keen on school.

How does a parent with inferior education who possibly can't even read well help guide their kids or help them with their homework? Since you want to bring up culture, during Apartheid you do realise that if one was black, one had to go to a black school. Coloureds had to go to Coloured schools. Exceptions to this were private or religious schools. White schools had better infrastructure, better everything, generally speaking.

Poor people generally do not even have jobs, if you are umemployed use the time to educate and get involved in your kids lives!

Again, if u don't have a job then u likely aren't educated. How do the blind lead the blind?

How old are you? When and where did u go to school? You seem to have a very simplistic view of things.

 

[alpha777]

Look, no doubt some people have a determination to succeed and become great people no matter what the odds. Likewise some people will fail regardless of how much help they get. For the average person however, it helps to go to a good school with good teachers and to have involved parents. If you look at the good schools around cape town, there is no ways that what the government pays as a standard salary will suffice to keep the good teachers in those schools. Extra funds from expensive school fees pads their pay cheques to keep them there.

Yes, there are some teachers who aren't worried about how big their salaries are and are just there to make a difference in building the generation of tomorrow. not everyone has that luxury though, I would imagine. A friend's brother teaches math (i think) in one of the black schools here, and apparently their students are getting really good marks, even better than some of the more affluent schools. Surely it's obvious a school is only as good as the calibre of it's teachers? Students full potential is more easily reached when certain factors are in their favour.
How does a parent with inferior education who possibly can't even read well help guide their kids or help them with their homework? Since you want to bring up culture, during Apartheid you do realise that if one was black, one had to go to a black school. Coloureds had to go to Coloured schools. Exceptions to this were private or religious schools. White schools had better infrastructure, better everything, generally speaking.
Again, if u don't have a job then u likely aren't educated. How do the blind lead the blind?

How old are you? When and where did u go to school? You seem to have a very simplistic view of things.

My maid has a matric, with her first paycheck she got from me she had dstv installed, premuim. now her kics watch tv all day, she complained that her son watches tv every morning and is late for school. And in separate conversations with me she moans and worries about the lack of good education her kids are getting! Can you see what is happening there? I reckon this is not an isolated incident.

 

[warchylde]

I think the point that noxibox is making is that it's ludicrous for you to expect that the standard of education at all schools suddenly became equal overnight purely because on 27 April 1994 the first democratic elections were held.

And what are the odds of a child excelling at school and tertiary education if the support structures are not there for them? If your parents were blue collar workers and not educated and you lived in a township when u started school in 1994 what are your chances of becoming a doctor or engineer? You'd be lucky just to matriculate with decent results. Sure, there would be those few that defy the odds and succeed despite of all the obstacles but they would be quite scarce indeed.

I worked in tertiary education for a while. His point would only have been valid had they required the same entry requirements that they do/did for white children. Many of the black students also received 100% bursary's as per gov grant.
They have also been allowed to pass where they really shouldn't have.

These things are breeding mediocrity, I dare you to say it doesn't

Sent from my Desire HD using MyBroadband Android App

 

[RogueTr00per]

I worked in tertiary education for a while. His point would only have been valid had they required the same entry requirements that they do/did for white children. Many of the black students also received 100% bursary's as per gov grant.
They have also been allowed to pass where they really shouldn't have.

These things are breeding mediocrity, I dare you to say it doesn't

Yes, I agree with you that standards have been lowered to allow more kids to pass that should not have been passing in the first place. The problem i think is that since the ANC came into power, they have tried to implement too many quick fixes instead of addressing the root of the problem(s).

All the taxpayers money that has been wasted over the years would have been better spent by upgrading the education system from the ground up, starting with all schools where standards were not up to scratch.

Basic education was guaranteed when the apartheid curtain fell.

I still don't agree with this statement however. Just because the country received a new democratically elected government, does not mean that education standards in practice would have become equal overnight.

 

[Palimino]

Aye, but to be fair it could be even worse than that. We could be shuffled off to detention camps and gassed or turned into slave labour.

This could never happen. I don’t know if this was posed as a veiled threat or a legitimate concern.

The scumbags simply do not know what they’re dealing with. This is not like the traditional slave trading slave types on which they may base their judgement of how people react to oppression. Assumptions about a fearful passive mob whose most severe reaction involves pitiful wailing, are inaccurate. If this is the thinking, a rude shock awaits. Think ‘reaping’ and ‘whirlwinds’.

 

[warchylde]

Yes, I agree with you that standards have been lowered to allow more kids to pass that should not have been passing in the first place. The problem i think is that since the ANC came into power, they have tried to implement too many quick fixes instead of addressing the root of the problem(s).

All the taxpayers money that has been wasted over the years would have been better spent by upgrading the education system from the ground up, starting with all schools where standards were not up to scratch.



I still don't agree with this statement however. Just because the country received a new democratically elected government, does not mean that education standards in practice would have become equal overnight.

The point that I was making is that instead of improving education they destroyed it completely thereby making the lot of the previously disadvantaged worse, yet they blame apartheid for it. They are beating a dead horse because they are utterly incapable of making any positive changes. All they can do is rape the coffers and pillage the country. They are also denying a part of the population the chance of contributing as punishment for the evils of the past. If you punish me for something I did fine, but if you punish me for what others did I highly recommend you combine sex and travel. (Last comment is for all the ANC fanbois)

Sent from my Desire HD using MyBroadband Android App

 

[RogueTr00per]

My maid has a matric, with her first paycheck she got from me she had dstv installed, premuim. now her kics watch tv all day, she complained that her son watches tv every morning and is late for school. And in separate conversations with me she moans and worries about the lack of good education her kids are getting! Can you see what is happening there? I reckon this is not an isolated incident.

I can see what is happening here. Can you see what has happened here?

It starts with the parents as WilD_CaT reminded us. And it started before that with their parents. How old is your maid btw? It's clear that her level of education has directly affected her ability to be a good parent by guiding her kids properly. And the same can probably be said for how her parents brought her up. They probably didn't know any better due to the inferior level of education that they received themselves.

What is the solution? Well i certainly don't advocate giving your maid some fat paycheck window-dressing job so that money can be thrown at the problem. She does however need some quick education on how to be a good parent. It certainly wouldn't hurt having her kids in a good school (assuming they aren't already). Why is she plonking her kids in front of DSTV? In an ideal world she would be at home making sure that her kids do their homework (assuming she is capable of helping them with their homework in the first place). I'm assuming her husband/spouse either isn't around or doesn't earn enough so that she doesn't have to work as a domestic? So she has no choice but to be your "maid".

Speaking for myself, I think that going to the good school I went to made it that much easier for me to come out ok in life. Other than that, I was just left to cruise along at my own speed, and was never pushed or guided that much by my single parent dad. And he only had a standard 8 education so he can't be blamed because he didn't know any better. If i had a mother to stay at home with me to guide me and push me, I'm sure I would have been way more studious. It's every parent's desire to want more for their children than they themselves received. If the parents aren't around to ensure that, then it comes down to that child's natural tendencies as to how hard they work and how much they excel in life.

I'm well aware of the implications that Apartheid had in our family, going back to my grandparents who could not buy the house that they lived in and shop that they did business in due to the Group Areas Act. They had to work so much harder in life because of the odds stacked against them. Life was pretty hard back then if you weren't white. I'm not saying all whites had it easy but everything else being equal, you were better off being white during Apartheid than non-white.

 

[RogueTr00per]

Educating children is easy.

1. Children need to get to school on time, sober and not high on drugs.
2. They need to sit in their sits, keep quiet, face forward and listen to the teachers.
3. Teachers must be able to read and write and do the maths themselves.
4. Parents need to make sure kids do their homework and go to bed at a reasonable hour.

Again, I refer you to this great piece by Walter Williams, he speaks about these things at the end of this lecture, where he talks about black schools and why some of them or so bad compared to "white" schools and why some of the private black schools in poor neighbourhoods produce tremendous successes compared to their public school counterparts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKgHc6bWqZ4

It starts with the parents...

Nice find, awesome video to watch, even at 53minutes long Gives good insight on discrimination and the importance of educating those less privileged.

 

[The Philosopher]

I watched the walter williams video on discrimination. It was so good to get a breath of fresh air, some sound reason and logic. It is a must watch!!

 

[warchylde]

I can see what is happening here. Can you see what has happened here?

It starts with the parents as WilD_CaT reminded us. And it started before that with their parents. How old is your maid btw? It's clear that her level of education has directly affected her ability to be a good parent by guiding her kids properly. And the same can probably be said for how her parents brought her up. They probably didn't know any better due to the inferior level of education that they received themselves.

What is the solution? Well i certainly don't advocate giving your maid some fat paycheck window-dressing job so that money can be thrown at the problem. She does however need some quick education on how to be a good parent. It certainly wouldn't hurt having her kids in a good school (assuming they aren't already). Why is she plonking her kids in front of DSTV? In an ideal world she would be at home making sure that her kids do their homework (assuming she is capable of helping them with their homework in the first place). I'm assuming her husband/spouse either isn't around or doesn't earn enough so that she doesn't have to work as a domestic? So she has no choice but to be your "maid".

Speaking for myself, I think that going to the good school I went to made it that much easier for me to come out ok in life. Other than that, I was just left to cruise along at my own speed, and was never pushed or guided that much by my single parent dad. And he only had a standard 8 education so he can't be blamed because he didn't know any better. If i had a mother to stay at home with me to guide me and push me, I'm sure I would have been way more studious. It's every parent's desire to want more for their children than they themselves received. If the parents aren't around to ensure that, then it comes down to that child's natural tendencies as to how hard they work and how much they excel in life.

I'm well aware of the implications that Apartheid had in our family, going back to my grandparents who could not buy the house that they lived in and shop that they did business in due to the Group Areas Act. They had to work so much harder in life because of the odds stacked against them. Life was pretty hard back then if you weren't white. I'm not saying all whites had it easy but everything else being equal, you were better off being white during Apartheid than non-white.

You don't seem to have turned out too bad..... At the end of the day it comes down to how much you WANT to achieve does it not?

Sent from my Desire HD using MyBroadband Android App

 

[RogueTr00per]

You don't seem to have turned out too bad..... At the end of the day it comes down to how much you WANT to achieve does it not?

Sent from my Desire HD using MyBroadband Android App

Yes, I came out ok but that's because I had more things in my favour than I had against me. Many black south africans were not so lucky tho. At the end of the day its about education and having support structures in place so that the next generation is better off.

On a related note, the ANC brainwashing that life is all about free-handouts is hurting this country badly by creating the expectation that one doesn't have to work hard to achieve things. I guess they lead by example now.

 

[warchylde]

Yes, I came out ok but that's because I had more things in my favour than I had against me. Many black south africans were not so lucky tho. At the end of the day its about education and having support structures in place so that the next generation is better off.

On a related note, the ANC brainwashing that life is all about free-handouts is hurting this country badly by creating the expectation that one doesn't have to work hard to achieve things. I guess they lead by example now.

Agreed


Sent from my Desire HD using MyBroadband Android App

 

[WilD_CaT]

To have a good school u don't need money. You need three 'things' good teachers, keen students, and involved parents.

Hey, we agree on something!

 

[WilD_CaT]

U do need money. U need it to pay the "good" teachers. U need it to provide a good support system for the kids so that they can be keen. The parents need to earn enuff that they can afford to be involved with their kids so that they don't have to work extremely long hours or two jobs to feed and shelter their kids.

I think what he means is throwing money at the problem won't solve it.

Yes we need money to buy things etc. but as you said later, a lot of it comes down to attitude of all the parties. Parents with very little who reinforce the notion of getting and education are likely to have their kids with a more positive attitutde towards learning. Teachers who are passionate about education produce top quality students.

I don't think throwing money at someone is the way to do it, or more importantly, you can actually pay less and get a far better education by doing other things. In the free market, when people who offer services don't do their jobs, we take our money somewhere else. With public education, the more poorely you perform, the more money you get. Or atleast that is the mentality.

 

[alpha777]

exactly, throwing money at a problem is not the way to go. The people of this country believe money solves problems but it is the will of the human spirit that does.

 

[dlk001]

Yes, I came out ok but that's because I had more things in my favour than I had against me. Many black south africans were not so lucky tho. At the end of the day its about education and having support structures in place so that the next generation is better off.

Reminds me when we were on strike against Afrikaans, the police man who threw me inside the van said "if you want to fight the white men, get educated"....despite being denied access to good education, he was absolutely spot on....and I wish I could see him one day and tell him "I never fought the white men, I fought the policies of the government"

Everything you said about Education is true. We need Broad Based Education Empowerment. The average age of professionals in technical fields is over 50yrs...It is deadly important that we educate our children so that they can be mentored by these old professionals. The window of opportunity is diminishing and I'm very conncerned.