Chevron
Serial breaker of phones
That's not the users problem. p2p is already shaped and if you want unshaped people get business accounts.
This works well.
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Afrihost Uncapped ADSL Feedback (Pt3)
- Thread starter bwana
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That's not the users problem. p2p is already shaped and if you want unshaped people get business accounts.
This works well.
HelterSkelter
Expert Member
I know, but should it now be the ISP's problem when people are downloading content they should not really have access to in the first place, by bypassing restrictions? It is a bit like paying fees to play golf at the Roodepoort golf course, but then I climb over the fence to play at Sandton golf course, and then Roodepoort must take the strain of my fence climbing tactics.
Moshidi
Senior Member
Those very services/protocols are creating the demand for the uncapped accounts. Without them, the majority of uncapped subscribers would just move to capped and watch DSTV
Moshidi
Senior Member
MrGray
Honorary Master
Seriously? And who appoints the moral police to decide which protocols we can and cannot have? Or are you just trolling?
I definitely like the idea of users having more control, but there is also something to be said for the honesty approach - in that everyone would need to understand the priorities of managing the network. The danger would be that everyone would just not shape themselves, or open up P2P for themselves and and expect everyone else to do the opposite. Essentially, you would have potential to be unshaped whenever you wanted, regardless of whether that is good for the network or not, and it would be very risky in terms of the service that other users would experience and latency and throughput on the network. If we had an open system where we could communicate in a forum like this - whereby we all agreed to turn torrents off for now - maybe it could works, but I reckon that's pretty much what's happening now with the dynamic system managing shaping.
Also remember that realtime services use a lot less bandwidth (generally) than P2P. Torrents saturate your line and create multiple download threads in a pretty unique way, which is why shaping is mostly aimed to minimise network resources to P2P.
I really like the concept though - I think we should keep talking about this, and perhaps we'll hit on something that we could implement eventually
If I understand this correctly, it would be like a partial monthly turbocharge, instead of a per-minute based one. I know that generally we've tried to steer away from bolt on packages - but I guess Turbocharge is effectively a short term bolt on so there is something in this.
We'd have to do a lot of calculations on whether this is viable. We'd also have to look at the value offering. If someone pays R50 to partially shaped, where the could pay R100 to be fully unshaped, it may not make sense - but I definitely see the thinking behind this
The thinking behind protocol prioritization is not about protecting the network, but rather a tool for businesses who can't afford firewalls or internet exchanges to prevent their employees from abusing their network.
Like I said, I really do like the concept of a user drive honesty system - but we'd need to put a lot more thought into to make it practical
HapticSimian
Honorary Master
- Streaming probably uses a fair bit less bandwidth than what you'd imagine, because you're only transferring what you're actually consuming as you do so. My wife and I watch a fair bit - a couple of hours every night and the odd whole day over weekends - and we barely approach the 150gb per month level. But a blip on the uncapped radar.
- You pay your ISP for a connection to the 'net. What you do with that connection is not for your ISP to police, firstly, and secondly the eventual dismantling of artificial content boundaries will be forced by more people not submitting to them. Your position would cement monopolies and cartels; it's short-sighted and counter to everything that arguably makes the Internet humanity's greatest achievement.
Sorry to hear this. I see you have dropped me a PM and I'll reply ASAP to assist you
A surf/stream only option. I think that would only work for a very small subset of clients. But that's my opinion. Maybe the forum could give us an idea of how many would consider something like this.
12.5% Download/ 6.25% P2P from a 10Mbps account @ 10:17
WTF
So I am paying R700 odd for a 1.25 Mbps line???
Really sorry that shaping is still so severe. Just remember that we're recalibrating after the upgrade to find the best balance between protecting the network from contention and latency, and giving back unshaped bandwidth to Uncapped users. We don't want to end up in a situation where we sit with contention and poor overall service, even on realtime service. We are relaxing controls, but very cautiously, to ensure we keep priority services at premium at all times.
It's getting earlier each day for full shaping to begin. Already, the 12.5%/6.25% has started. Its getting worse, not better. So much for easing up of shaping. Yesterday, it started at 10 am, the day before at 12 am and today at 8 am.
I don't think it ever will - cos I personally believe that we're a lot better off than we were after the move. I've seen much better speeds and throughput since we changed networks on my personal home account, on realtime and non-realtime services and I also believe that the demand-based system we've implemented has given our clients access to a lot more bandwidth. We've seen this in the overall amount of bandwidth moved monthly - we're moving a lot more in real terms, accounting for client base growth and line upgrades in that time.
Unless there are legal or ISPA requirements to prevent certain content, it's not really up to the ISP. However, we do expect our clients to make the right choices and respect the intellectual property and copyright laws in place and avoid pirate or illegal content.
HapticSimian
Honorary Master
I need an eye-roll emote. It wasn't meant as an analogy to your product, but to the end-user experience you've created over the last half a year, and to your offering changing materially despite all your protestations to the contrary.
That left there, if you ever succeed in finding a 'balance' that does not result in indefensible levels of shaping at ungodly hours of the day I'll happily jump on the wagon again - as I've said before Afrihost is one of the few companies I don't begrudge my monthly debit order. But until that time I think I'm done with Afrihost 'uncapped'.
There is more and more focus being placed on "grey" content and how ISPs should react. In the States they've experimented with a three strikes approach where the ISP eventually terminates your service after the third copyright infringement - but I believe this got scrapped eventually.
Ultimately the issue of policing the internet also infringes on too many personal privacy issues for the ever to be a clear cut issue. In Germany they ruled that personal privacy rights trump the crime of copyright infringement - and only capital crimes would warrant invasion of privacy where ISPs could reveal private information to police or copyright protection bodies.
Yes, correct. Your profile won't change unless you're actually connected and moving data
I'm sorry that we're not able to unshape as quickly as we've done in the past. I do believe that once we've gotten the metrics we need to find that perfect balance, we'll have a better overall internet experience for our Uncapped clients.
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