AI Development general thread.

Kosmik said:
As part of it sure but there should still be a human vetting somewhere in the loop.
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Still doesn't fully address the obvious:

AI/llm has no context, it is not in or linked to the brain of the relevant persons with the actual knowledge or ownership - one sure way to get ****ed. Fast.

Even if you have everything biblically setup the llm still ****s up to a degree and anyone telling you otherwise has not properly experimented with an llm end to end.
 
Herr der Verboten said:
Still doesn't fully address the obvious:

AI/llm has no context, it is not in or linked to the brain of the relevant persons with the actual knowledge or ownership - one sure way to get ****ed. Fast.

Even if you have everything biblically setup the llm still ****s up to a degree and anyone telling you otherwise has not properly experimented with an llm end to end.
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I agree with you 100% but that is one of the battles folks are facing in the whole non vs eng code submissions.
 
Kosmik said:
Nah, pretty much exactly what I said in that controls and governance are seen as blockers and obstacles vs quality and safety concerns and can be overridden.

Nothing wrong with getting more out there by non engineering but it's a big differance between local RAD and public production, well sustainable production.

My personal opinions are that non-engineer submissions need to go through the same rigorous process. It's not blocker but a safeguard. You can automate and have ai assisted all over but whether it's engineer written or non, same scrutiny.
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Oh right I’m 100% with you there, my goal would be to make it as point and click as possible for the “end user” types and get it into a contained staging environment quickly and that would then be entirely ephemeral.

Anything longer term would have to go through the usual production stages and peer reviews and infosec clearance etc.

I think the biggest problem is likely having some reliance on AI for code review because you are going to run into languages you don’t have experts for.

Very unlikely any of this would ever go public though anyway and always be internal only which is somewhat of a guardrail.

Managing secrets is another thing because it’s not like normal people have access to AWS etc.
 
SauRoNZA said:
Oh right I’m 100% with you there, my goal would be to make it as point and click as possible for the “end user” types and get it into a contained staging environment quickly and that would then be entirely ephemeral.

Anything longer term would have to go through the usual production stages and peer reviews and infosec clearance etc.

I think the biggest problem is likely having some reliance on AI for code review because you are going to run into languages you don’t have experts for.
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Sure around the language for specifics but ask any dev that's been around for decade or more, they have likely dealt in many languages and once you do, there are patterns and trends that you focus on more than the syntax.

Even a language focused resource may still have shortcomings, especially when it comes to architectural concerns or cross platform considerations.

Most seniors should be some form of polyglot, I'd be very surprised if not or possibly that's just my own experiance.
 
Kosmik said:
Sure around the language for specifics but ask any dev that's been around for decade or more, they have likely dealt in many languages and once you do, there are patterns and trends that you focus on more than the syntax.

Even a language focused resource may still have shortcomings, especially when it comes to architectural concerns or cross platform considerations.

Most seniors should be some form of polyglot, I'd be very surprised if not or possibly that's just my own experiance.
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I mean we aren’t talking about anything here that would be an architectural or multi platform concern.

At best it will be a browser based dashboard doing some API calls and doing some analytics and reporting.
 
SauRoNZA said:
I mean we aren’t talking about anything here that would be an architectural or multi platform concern.

At best it will be a browser based dashboard doing some API calls and doing some analytics and reporting.
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It depends. Sure in that case it's a small tool that a individual created to ease thier life and wants to share but there are also cases of full on multi discipline dev being attempted with the same vigor.
 
Kosmik said:
It depends. Sure in that case it's a small tool that a individual created to ease thier life and wants to share but there are also cases of full on multi discipline dev being attempted with the same vigor.
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For sure, and then the guardrails need to slide along accordingly.

I think that’s the biggest different to the approach here is being more flexible based on complexity.
 
konfab said:
Codex desktop app is absolutely game changing for an engineer being forced to do UI design.
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This guy being forced to do ux… you can't do the whole stack? Back in the day we did all the layers ourselves and some of us still do. We didn't even call it layers it was just development work.
 
Herr der Verboten said:
This guy being forced to do ux… you can't do the whole stack? Back in the day we did all the layers ourselves and some of us still do. We didn't even call it layers it was just development work.
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And that’s why you get those apps that have “designed by developers” written all over them that no normal person can use.

UX becoming an entire thing of its own is exactly when software started becoming useful to every man.
 
SauRoNZA said:
And that’s why you get those apps that have “designed by developers” written all over them that no normal person can use.

UX becoming an entire thing of its own is exactly when software started becoming useful to every man.
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Yes and no - sure most people is tone death and can't do a friendly composition that makes sense and don't rape you as end user. I guess people weren't taught how to make ux or simply lacks the feel for it.

Still there's more than enough tools and sources for this if you lack and that said; yeah we have specialists and it makes sense but to cry being forced to work a part is laughable at best.

I mean… really? Whether its data, code, frontend, resources it's still different faces of the whole and you as a developer should or be scared of it.

That's the part that's the joke onto itself. Right.

…if your ux looks like **** - your code probably looks like **** too because seems you lacks the care and discipline to make nice and right. Thats my honest take.
 
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SauRoNZA said:
And that’s why you get those apps that have “designed by developers” written all over them that no normal person can use.

UX becoming an entire thing of its own is exactly when software started becoming useful to every man.
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It's probably less apparent these days than before especially since most are boilerplate type solutions that all look the same. I think it's also fair to say that anyone who has done such for 2 decades or longer inevitably performed many roles including design and can still deliver something commercially on par with a dedicated UX specialist for most projects especially if they spent their days in photoshop/illustrator/fireworks/dreamweaver etc
 
quovadis said:
It's probably less apparent these days than before especially since most are boilerplate type solutions that all look the same. I think it's also fair to say that anyone who has done such for 2 decades or longer inevitably performed many roles including design and can still deliver something commercially on par with a dedicated UX specialist for most projects especially if they spent their days in photoshop/illustrator/fireworks/dreamweaver etc
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My point is a skill is a skill, and a skill can be trained in - this obviously excludes a natural feel, a talent etc.

edit
and there are tools, resources and enough examples and guides like https://paletton.com/ to assist with "that color wheel".
 
Herr der Verboten said:
This guy being forced to do ux… you can't do the whole stack? Back in the day we did all the layers ourselves and some of us still do. We didn't even call it layers it was just development work.
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I was referring to myself in the third person as the engineer doing frontend UI/UX work. :laugh:. I have been doing it my entire career and have hated every second of it.
 
quovadis said:
General question - Is anyone here cycling/rotating chatgpt plus accounts for codex?
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Nearly at that point. Ran out of both codex (for the week) and open code go (for the month) yesterday.

GLM5.2 is a very thirsty model, and my usage of 5.5 medium is hefty. I was using 5.4 low at the end to try and stretch it out and it was actually pretty decent.
 
Herr der Verboten said:
Yes and no - sure most people is tone death and can't do a friendly composition that makes sense and don't rape you as end user. I guess people weren't taught how to make ux or simply lacks the feel for it.

Still there's more than enough tools and sources for this if you lack and that said; yeah we have specialists and it makes sense but to cry being forced to work a part is laughable at best.

I mean… really? Whether its data, code, frontend, resources it's still different faces of the whole and you as a developer should or be scared of it.

That's the part that's the joke onto itself. Right.

…if your ux looks like **** - your code probably looks like **** too because seems you lacks the care and discipline to make nice and right. Thats my honest take.
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I dunno. I can honestly make a decent UX that's usable but I'm no designer however my backend work is definitely well structured etc. Normally other teams pickup the ux from the backend api's etc. Bit I also personally hate the minor shifting of items and small design tweaks which designers love. Nothing wrong with folks loving their separate ideals.

But codex etc really does lessen the friction of web UX code for me, its quality though is probably highly questionable maybe even though I can follow and tweak obvious differances. The codex browser is great for when the rendered dom is not working right. I primarily use CLI and have pages open with chrome and dev tools but when something fails to render or doesnt properly, quite often explanations didnt work and had to take a actual screen grab or snip the html elements. The codex browser helps lot with that, feels dog slow compared to the cli for me but I note the cli has a lot more visual feedback when working on problems than the app.
 
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