ANC elite hoodwinking poor - Moeletsi Mbeki

[MickeyD]

My guess what the ANC response will look like:

Moeletsi is being employed by white agents who want to bring back the apartheid days of struggle and hamper our fight for freedom and our fight against racism. He is doing it to obtain wealth and a position in their monopolies which we are trying to LIBERATE with nationalisation. Moeletsi and Thabo have been working internally to start strife in the ANC and cause divide in our ranks. But they cannot stand against our struggle for freedom.

You use big words and too many words...

It will be: "He's a bladdy agent".

 

[JungleBoy]

Under the ANC, three social groups had emerged.

They were: the capitalists or bourgeoisie, the political elite or bureaucratic bourgeoisie, and the under-class or unemployed.

Where does this leave us - the normal employed people ?

 

[ponder]

Where does this leave us - the normal employed people ?

Fscked!

 

[Lycanthrope]

It's a favourite pub quiz question: which city is further south, PE or CPT?

Cape Town. There's more of it going south than there is to PE

Google Earth confirms it!

 

[empirex]

If only Moeletsi Mbeki would run for President, we would be on a completely different path.
But alas the cockroaches stormed the castle after Mandela stepped down, doing what bully-boys do best from then onward.

 

[zippy]

This guy is a legend. Eyes wide open. So refreshing. Sad though that the majority voter in SA simply ignore what he has to say.

Nobody is able to go and tell this to the majority. Giving speeches at universities all well and good, but where are the speeches to the poor? They only people talking directly to the majority are the ANC. The rest either talk down at them, or insult them for voting ANC, or don't talk to them at all.

The majority probably aren't overly pleased with the ANC, but they trust the alternatives even less.

 

[empirex]

Moeletsi Mbeki needs to join and head up the DA; plain and simple.

 

[marine1]

He won't run for president s he knows what will happen if he gets elected.
Power and money are a cancer

 

[empirex]

He won't run for president s he knows what will happen if he gets elected.
Power and money are a cancer

I disagree. Just because many of histories leaders deliberately seek out power to satisfy that existing hunger does not mean good men themselves can't govern. Just look at Mandela and de Klerk.

 

[ponder]

Just look at Mandela and de Klerk.

Neither were good men in my book, one was a terrorist and the other quite a 'right' orientated individual in the np that seized an opportunity to advance himself and make himself look like the good guy.

 

[wily me]

Neither were good men in my book, one was a terrorist and the other quite a 'right' orientated individual in the np that seized an opportunity to advance himself and make himself look like the good guy.

The both of them together and many more achieved what nobody thought would ever happen, there was no alternatives as that would have been worse. Now things are hanging on a thin thread gauged by recent events.

 

[empirex]

Neither were good men in my book, one was a terrorist and the other quite a 'right' orientated individual in the np that seized an opportunity to advance himself and make himself look like the good guy.

According to your thinking, remorse, learning and growth within an individual is for naught, as you can only be judged on your worst past deeds.

de Klerk was raised within an Afrikaans racist background, he was a product of his upbringing; BUT as he grew, he came to reject much of that upbringing and what he had been taught to believe. And given his eventually position as President of South Africa, that takes a man of ultimately good and decent character.

As for Mandela; it always amazes me how people can turn around and point fingers at a man who was persecuted, labled and jailed for 20 years of his life just for being black. The ANC tried PEACE -- it never worked. Do I agree with what happened. No. Do I like what happened? No. But I understand it.

How did the Boer's overcome the oppression of the British? How did the Dutch free themselves from the Spanish? How did the US immigrants escape the tyranny of the British?

When peaceful means fail, the only option left to the oppressed is violence. It has been that way throughout history.
Through your logic, the black people of SA should just have remained under the thumb and command of the whites forever as third class "citizens".

All that was asked for was the right to equality. It was continually denied.

What would you have done?

 

[ponder]

According to your thinking, remorse, learning and growth within an individual is for naught, as you can only be judged on your worst past deeds.

de Klerk was raised within an Afrikaans racist background, he was a product of his upbringing; BUT as he grew, he came to reject much of that upbringing and what he had been taught to believe. And given his eventually position as President of South Africa, that takes a man of ultimately good and decent character.

As for Mandela; it always amazes me how people can turn around and point fingers at a man who was persecuted, labled and jailed for 20 years of his life just for being black. The ANC tried PEACE -- it never worked. Do I agree with what happened. No. Do I like what happened? No. But I understand it.

De Klerk was leaning to the right in the NP, he was against talks with the ANC. He saw a gap when PW got sick and created this image of a hero, he did it all for his benefit. The majority of the people in the NP & ANC at that time will tell you the same thing. Pik Botha, the guy that did the actual negotiations(?), Mandela, Tambo etc would all tell you exactly who FW is, a two faced pos looking out for his own interest.

Nelson was the head of Umkhonto we Sizwe, the military part of the ANC that targeted civilians. They were recognised as a terrorist organisation worldwide and Mandela's whereabouts was given to the SA gov at the time by the CIA. There were travel restriction on it's members post apartheid as these people were still recognised as terrorists. As a child I barely missed two of their bombings by minutes, wtf did I know about politics back then, others weren't so lucky. Even old Tutu chastised the ANC for targeting civilians. So it's not just for being 'black'.

Do I think Mandela changed as a person, yes. FW on the other is nothing but a chameleon. Either way you can't wipe things people do in their pasts under the carpet, people might forgive but they always remember.

 

[Nicodeamus]

I think some people here haven't really read history, they only read propaganda.

 

[PostmanPot]

According to your thinking, remorse, learning and growth within an individual is for naught, as you can only be judged on your worst past deeds.

de Klerk was raised within an Afrikaans racist background, he was a product of his upbringing; BUT as he grew, he came to reject much of that upbringing and what he had been taught to believe. And given his eventually position as President of South Africa, that takes a man of ultimately good and decent character.

As for Mandela; it always amazes me how people can turn around and point fingers at a man who was persecuted, labled and jailed for 20 years of his life just for being black. The ANC tried PEACE -- it never worked. Do I agree with what happened. No. Do I like what happened? No. But I understand it.

How did the Boer's overcome the oppression of the British? How did the Dutch free themselves from the Spanish? How did the US immigrants escape the tyranny of the British?

When peaceful means fail, the only option left to the oppressed is violence. It has been that way throughout history.
Through your logic, the black people of SA should just have remained under the thumb and command of the whites forever as third class "citizens".

All that was asked for was the right to equality. It was continually denied.

What would you have done?

Spot on.

 

[buyeye]

Spot on.

Yes he is (just post whoring now)

 

[Rosaudio]

It's a favourite pub quiz question: which city is further south, PE or CPT?

PE clearly

 

[wily me]

PE clearly

Erm Depends who's paying!

 

[Synaesthesia]

De Klerk was leaning to the right in the NP, he was against talks with the ANC. He saw a gap when PW got sick and created this image of a hero, he did it all for his benefit. The majority of the people in the NP & ANC at that time will tell you the same thing. Pik Botha, the guy that did the actual negotiations(?), Mandela, Tambo etc would all tell you exactly who FW is, a two faced pos looking out for his own interest.

Nelson was the head of Umkhonto we Sizwe, the military part of the ANC that targeted civilians. They were recognised as a terrorist organisation worldwide.

Apartheid presidents were also terrorists. They only adopted violence after trying peaceful protest for decades.

Do I think Mandela changed as a person, yes. FW on the other is nothing but a chameleon. Either way you can't wipe things people do in their pasts under the carpet, people might forgive but they always remember.

FW is a hero who helped end Apartheid. I have so much respect for him. Compare to PW and predecessors who were to scared or stubborn to embrace change.

 

[ponder]

Apartheid presidents were also terrorists. They only adopted violence after trying peaceful protest for decades.

I'm not denying that for a second.

FW is a hero who helped end Apartheid. I have so much respect for him. Compare to PW and predecessors who were to scared or stubborn to embrace change.

Nope, you obviously don't know the whole story that lead to the change. FW is a pos.

Edit: Must find the name of that documentary about all this where they interviewed many NP, ANC (& PAC?) members and the actual negotiator of the process before it even became remotely public. You might not know it but PW started the whole thing, not that like the dude either.