ANCYL trashes toilets

capd said:
I don't know. But even after the DA agreed to enclose them, they still skimped. Previously the budget never allowed enclosures, now the budget made provision for +-50 enclosures. They obviously pulled it from somewhere.
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So wait, previously the deal was NO ENCLOSURES, then because the residents hadnt bothered to enclose these last 50, the government made a plan and did the enclosures for them, as good as the budget would allow. And they still skimped? I'm lost. Surely, if they did NOTHING, that would be skimping?

What I do know though is that the Makaza residents are surroudned by a world class wealthy city - no doubt where they think the money would come from.
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What difference does that make? Like it or not, most of South Africa is in poverty, and the budget for upliftment of communities is tight. Remember, nearly all that money is provided for by the tax base, which is vanishingly small compared to the size of the population. Unless you want to raise tax rates to 75%, and drive everyone away, there just isnt enough money to provide for everyone. There is enough to offer basic amenities, and thats exactly what was offered, but the ANCYL decided to mess it up for the entire community.

It is a fact that the WC has better service delivery. Of course that applies differently on an individual's level.
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Quite so. Why then is the WC being accused of being lazy and/or skint? Did they not provide at all? No, they did provide, but the ANCYL destroyed it. Show me a township in the EC that even has individual toilets, covered or not. And then tell me how cr@p the DA is.

No. I support actions of non-violent human beings who want strong weather-resistant toilet enclosures.
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And where these non violent actions? Is threatening to destroy the city non violent? Then why are you defending the ANCYL?
 
capd said:
I don't know. But even after the DA agreed to enclose them, they still skimped. Previously the budget never allowed enclosures, now the budget made provision for +-50 enclosures. They obviously pulled it from somewhere.
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So you don't know, but at the same time assume there must have been more money?

No. I support actions of non-violent human beings who want strong weather-resistant toilet enclosures.
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Is that a political party? People for Strong Weather-resistant Toilet Enclosures perhaps?

As I see it, the DA did the best they could at the time.
If the ANCYL and community was dissatisfied with the construction material, they could have brought that to the attention of the relevant authorities and then worked together in solving the problem. Breaking everything down, putting yourself back on square one, is not going to suddenly produce more budget to have it rebuild.
 
capd said:
Seems the community might have changed their view? Maybe they agreed beforehand out of desperation and changed their mind.

Did you see the toilets?
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Changed their view or were they brainwashed by the ANCYL? Don't you find it odd that the 99% of community agreed to the enclosures yet they were unaware of the intended material to be used ? Do you honestly believe that not one out of the 99% enquired about the intended material to be used before agreeing?

They may well have changed their minds but that does not justify hooliganism.

I have seen photos of the toilets, personally I would have preferred a concrete structure but then again I would also have enquired about this before agreeing.

You talk about upliftment of the previously disadvantaged, well, they were uplifted in the respect of having a crap in privacy, granted, ithe enclosures were not ideal but they were enclosures! Now, because of their "lets break it down' attitude they are back where they started.
 
Jola said:
Where does western upbringing come into the picture ? Why is that a good thing ? Are the Japanese, Chinese, Koreans deprived ?

I'm just talking about using your opportunities, limited as they may be.
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Read back to what I was discussing with Frankie. We agreed on western upbringing so I'm sure you would also agree too that a western upbringing ensures children turning out stronger in many aspects due to the extra care and attention they were provided with. One of those aspects is pride, another is mindset to dream and to work hard to achieve those dreams knowing that the world is your oyster.

And as you say, blacks are afforded a lot less opportunity due to the past, racial prejudice, etc.
 
Not really sure what the issue is here. There were some 50 toilets built to go with the shacks, yes they were corrugated iron, but were complety enclosed and had flsh toilets. Obviously an interim measure i would suspect and upgrades could follow later. No thanks to ANCYL action they have nothing, something is surely better than nothing?
 
Anyway, I've had enough of this thread - I'm out of here.

And I don't blame capd for his views.

But I will state that, IMHO, if his views are representative of the wider population in this country then we have no future ! Entitlement rules !

My ex-wife's family moved to Johannesburg in the 1930's, from the Karoo farms with the really bad drought, during the Great Depression. They had no homes, no schooling, they lived in garages with self-built longdrops, etc. But they pulled themselves up by their bootstraps, and made it to a better life - not that they were ever wealthy !

I just don't see many South Africans doing this in modern times - it's just entitlement, entitlement, entitlement !!!! (Oh, and corruption !).
 
TonyA said:
Not really sure what the issue is here. There were some 50 toilets built to go with the shacks, yes they were corrugated iron, but were complety enclosed and had flsh toilets. Obviously an interim measure i would suspect and upgrades could follow later. No thanks to ANCYL action they have nothing, something is surely better than nothing?
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+1
 
capd said:
If the ANC did that we would still be in Apartheid.

A country's strength is in its economy. Yet Apartheid only allowed us whites to participate. Transformation and reconciliation involves allowing more than just us whites to play.
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No, Apartheid was about legislated separation. Once removed, Apartheid ended. Perhaps you're speaking about legacies, but window dressing doesn't help Sipho in his squatter camp get a warm meal every day. Do you think he gives a flying f**k about whether there should be more black people in middle management?
 
Albereth said:
Why are you trying to demand that blacks should have a western upbringing? Whites, in general, have roots in western culture. It seems that you are saying that Europe is somehow responsible for Africans coming from Africa, and the sub text is that being an African is somehow inferior?

Perhaps what you are really trying to say is that the western culture is the greatest thing ever imaginable and that the horrid apartheid regime prevented the noble black people from being part of that joyous rapture?
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You seem to need to ponder a little on what exactly "western upbringing" means and how much of a gap it is compared to being uncultured. It has nothing to do with geography, it is the way the successful economic world works. It is about having an upbringing that readies you for the western way which blacks were previously grossly denied, fact, and to this day are still discriminated against and still denied, fact.
 
capd said:
You seem to need to ponder a little on what exactly "western upbringing" means and how much of a gap it is compared to being uncultured. It has nothing to do with geography, it is the way the successful economic world works. It is about having an upbringing that readies you for the western way which blacks were previously grossly denied, fact, and to this day are still discriminated against and still denied, fact.
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:( Oh dear
 
So essentially these people are telling the DA they must be more like the ANC? So, give DA party members flashy cars and let the people **** in the bushes then? Great logic.

If a tin toilet enclosure is all that can be afforded, then a tin toilet enclosure it is. If I give a beggar a sandwich and he throws it on the ground in disgust and demands a McDonalds burger, I'm most definitely going to leave him to suffer. Beggars can't be choosers.
 
DreamKing said:
how?

we have laws do not allow "previously disadvantaged" to be a lawyer, a doctor, a teacher, a businessman etc.....

how that possible you have that conclusion?

"previously disadvantaged races are still limited in achieving, in aspiring and aiming and setting goals"
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Well it's mainly due to poor education, something the ANC has failed to provide. It's also due to lack of jobs, with the only province decreasing unemployment in the last year being the Western Cape. The previously disadvantaged are still disadvantaged thanks to the ruling party, not because of Apartheid.
 
It is impossible to see the logic in the ANCYL action.

Reminds me of the school children who burnt their school down because the class rooms were crowded, or the group who did the same thing because they did not like the exam timetable, both only a few months ago.

Or those in Mpumalanga who stoned the library and laboratory at their school because they accused the headmaster of witchcraft. Now they complain because their school does not have a proper library or a laboratory - poor disadvantaged people neglected by apartheid.

Then like one poster on this thread said the burden of Bantu Education is heavy.

More like the chickens are coming home to roost from the ANC's liberation before education policy.

Break things if you don't like it - you never paid for it, that is the taxpayers' responsibility - - and you have idiots defending their actions.
 
capd said:
Most business (>80% ?) is owned by whites. Whites would prefer to employ whites because the injustices of the past generally mean that whites are more educated and well off, have more western tradition and upbringing and are therefore prepared to work harder because they understand more about life and achieving, etc.

The Patrice Motsepe example shows us what can happen when blacks are afforded equal opportunities and work hard.
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You're making up figures again! Seriously, you need to research and substantiate your absurdities.
 
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