ANCYL trashes toilets

[Kosmik]

The hospital or police will be ineffective when they see the original order that was agreed on.

Lol, gibberesh rubbish. I say lets see you go do that then and see what happens to you. Where is this origional order?

 

[blonde one]

You fail to see the difference between ANCYL and genuinely unhappy residents.

No, I see the difference. you are the one who seems to be unable to follow your own posts and their replies.
Go back to the original post and follow the link and you will see where the ANCYL fit into the story. Once you have refreshed your memory you should be able to keep up with the thread a bit better

I would spell it out for you but as you said, you are "edumacated" (your choice of spelling not mine :wtf so I'm sure you can figure it out for yourself

 

[capd]

You just assume because of white guilt.

Tired now of playing devil's advocate with you. I dont need white guilt in order to tell you how they feel.

Sending a message? To what? To whom? Are we still struggling against apartheid? Do we need passive resistance, um****o wesizwe (spelling, not sure) bombing power plants? Remember who exactly is sending the message here - its not the community, its the ANCYL. Big difference.

We know there is a difference. We have discussed it. We have discussed the smear campaign. But it doesn't detract from what i guarantee you asa human being that there are still unhappy people who want more who only agreed out of desperation and who understand that breaking things is about more than being ungrateful.

Since the new enclosures were much like the ones they had built themselves, I'm not sure I agree with that, especially given the ANCYL and not the community destroyed them. I dont doubt that they would love more out of life - a house with a garden, a pool and a lawnmower, for example - but I dont agree that they were that unhappy about these enclosures.

Again, comparing wanting a concrete enclosure to wanting a house with garden, a pool and lawn mower.

I have differentiated too many times now between ANCYL/destruction, and non-destructive residents. Last time now.

I'm not sure how bigotry comes into it - but I see lots of white guilt. Bigotry would be saying that they are too incompetent and/or lazy to build anything that could withstand the elements. But thats not what I think, I think these poor people have been abused by the ANCYL for political points. You seem to think that in destroying these structures, the ANCYL somehow acted as the citizen's champion.

Intolerance and the opposite of understanding go hand in hand.

I am very fortunate so why can't I be sensitive and thoughtful and grateful for my luck and in turn feel guilty? You are sick if you see a problem with that kind of white guilt.

No I never said they acted like the citizens' champions. I definitely do not think this. I said a message has been conveyed.

So why is it good that the ANC destroyed them? Do you not that think that there are other ways to have your voice heard?

I never said it was good. There are other ways, much harder as a poor person though.

Oh and before you say, yes but they tried that but it didnt work, they built the toilets and the enclosures didnt they? The mayor himself came to oversee the operation, and got the agreement of the residents beforehand. That doesnt sound like he didnt give a *****.

Now, because I'm sure the mayor is a smart man, he probably realizes that the community is not to blame for the destruction, that the YL is, and so hopefully he will make an accommodation for these people. But surely you can see these simple facts - money was tight, what was left was spent on the enclosures, which have now been destroyed. No money left. So where do the new enclosures come from? Let me repeat, NO MONEY ANYMORE, thanks to the YL. Even if they wanted to help (which, as we know, they do) they dont have the money to, thanks again to the YL.

The difference between the two. You think I am advocating the ANCYL - wrong.

I see the facts. They don't.

And what do you think will happen when a lucky few get brick enclosures while everyone else has to ***** in corrugated iron enclosures that they built themselves.

It'll inspire then to want more in life

 

[capd]

Not surprising !

Anyone who believes that magicians create money would be a little lost !

Anyone who believes that someone believes that magicians create money would be a little lost too.

 

[capd]

+1

To make it worse, they have a "Culture of Entitlement" - they want !!!

And dont forget Apartheid's role!

 

[Ancalagon]

Again, comparing wanting a concrete enclosure to wanting a house with garden, a pool and lawn mower.

Somehow you managed to think I meant the exact opposite of what I said. Read my quote below, and tell me again, where do I compare wanting a house, garden etc to wanting a working toilet?

I dont doubt that they would love more out of life - a house with a garden, a pool and a lawnmower, for example - but I dont agree that they were that unhappy about these enclosures.

Let me restate that for you. I know they would like more out of life, that they would like more than a functioning covered toilet. With me so far? They could, for example, want a house with a garden and a pool. With me? Now, have I said they are ungrateful or out of line for wanting such? No, I havent. Alright. And last I say, I dont agree that they were unhappy with these enclosures. At least, I havent seen any evidence that they REALLY were. Evidence that the ANCYL were, yes, but not evidence that they had approval from the entire community.

I have differentiated too many times now between ANCYL/destruction, and non-destructive residents. Last time now.

Have you? You still seem to think that the residents were responsible for this though, I cant fathom why. This has got a LOT more to do with the ANCYL than the residents, in case you havent noticed.

Intolerance and the opposite of understanding go hand in hand.

I am very fortunate so why can't I be sensitive and thoughtful and grateful for my luck and in turn feel guilty? You are sick if you see a problem with that kind of white guilt.

Because we've had democracy for 16 years, and still the ANC fails at the provision of basic amenities. Hell, these people would not have even got those covers were it not for the DA.

Besides, 1) its preventing you from seeing the obvious, that the ANC is NOT GOOD for this country. It has nothing to do with their skin colour either. 2), guilt isnt going to help these people. Do you donate, or just pay lip service to the fact that you feel guilty?

No I never said they acted like the citizens' champions. I definitely do not think this. I said a message has been conveyed.

But the message was conveyed BY the ANCYL, not the residents. So were they right to do that?

The difference between the two. You think I am advocating the ANCYL - wrong.

I see the facts. They don't.

Really? But you agree with the destruction while you realize it was not the fault of the residents. So what exactly are you advocating?

It'll inspire then to want more in life

Sadly, no. Wait a few seconds while I look for that news article on toilets that were destroyed - wait for it - by street vendors who charged people to use their own toilets. You dont think anyone with a brick toilet will get in trouble, you are sadly mistaken. When all you have is a tin shack and a tin toilet, the man with a brick toilet is comparatively wealthy, which breeds jealousy.

 

[Nod]

And dont forget Apartheid's role!

I sincerely hope that you would be able to stop blaming history at some time.

The fact is, that if the government have put every resource into education and upliftment projects, instead of buying weapons and squandering money, everybody would have been better off. Blaming "Apartheid" however, is still easier than working for something.

 

[Kosmik]

I sincerely hope that you would be able to stop blaming history at some time.

The fact is, that if the government have put every resource into education and upliftment projects, instead of buying weapons and squandering money, everybody would have been better off. Blaming "Apartheid" however, is still easier than working for something.

Well said.

 

[capd]

Lol, gibberesh rubbish. I say lets see you go do that then and see what happens to you. Where is this origional order?

Lol. Ask them. They think they're entitled to it.

 

[capd]

No, I see the difference. you are the one who seems to be unable to follow your own posts and their replies.
Go back to the original post and follow the link and you will see where the ANCYL fit into the story. Once you have refreshed your memory you should be able to keep up with the thread a bit better

I would spell it out for you but as you said, you are "edumacated" (your choice of spelling not mine :wtf so I'm sure you can figure it out for yourself

Please spell it out for me because I think I am keeping up? I have been posting consistently and understand the ANCYLs involvement, compared to a couple from you?

Perhaps you need to keep up, and understand I did not ever set out to defend the ANCYL, if this is what you think?

I thought edumacated was appropriate

edumacation 152 up, 120 down

buy edumacation mugs, tshirts and magnets
edumacation, ed u ma kay shon, noun.

(African American/Black Slang -- Post Americas Slavery History)

1. During and after slavery in the United States, Central America and South America -- those of African descent were not allowed to be taught to read or write, a crime punishable by death to the teacher and student.

After slavery in the New World, many African Americans/Blacks have been subjected to substandard education as compared to their European American counterparts.

Today, substandard education is still subjected upon many African Americans/Blacks, below poverty European Americans, and non male white men be them women -- or other ethnic groups and races.

Self education has been implemented in many areas of America with the above stated disfranchised/dissed group.

 

[daveza]

Lol, gibberesh rubbish. I say lets see you go do that then and see what happens to you. Where is this origional order?

One original order coming up -

In discussing the project with the community, the project manager agreed to stretch the budget so that each family could have its own toilet. This could be achieved by allocating all of the project's sanitation funds to providing as many toilets as possible, while families agreed to construct their own enclosures.

This agreement was requested by the community and supported by the ANC councillor in the ward, Nomfefe Gexa. In other words, as a consequence of engaging with the local community, it actually became possible to build 1316 toilets - five times more than originally planned.

Next ?

 

[capd]

I sincerely hope that you would be able to stop blaming history at some time.

Its not only blaming history - it is acknowledging and identifying its effect that it still has today.

The fact is, that if the government have put every resource into education and upliftment projects, instead of buying weapons and squandering money, everybody would have been better off. Blaming "Apartheid" however, is still easier than working for something.

Who is blaming Apartheid as the only reason?

 

[capd]

One original order coming up -



Next ?

Lol you had me in stitches!

As I've stated before, I believe in a widening gap between the ANC and the ANCYL. After all they are separate with different ideas. The reporter correctly adds in "in other words". Actually, ANC is not necesarily = ANCYL.

So no,not that order.

 

[Kosmik]

One original order coming up -



Next ?

Actually I was replying to his post about the police not being able to stop you going and taking some items for free from the V&A because he wanted them, not the toilet story.

The hospital or police will be ineffective when they see the original order that was agreed on.

 

[blonde one]

Please spell it out for me because I think I am keeping up? I have been posting consistently and understand the ANCYLs involvement, compared to a couple from you?

Perhaps you need to keep up, and understand I did not ever set out to defend the ANCYL, if this is what you think?

I thought edumacated was appropriate

Pass.
You are amusing I'll give you that much

 

[antowan]

Perspective will help many things in this country. A perspective like, metal shelters provide better privacy than no shelter at all for instance. I understand the grievance, but I am still waiting for the city to install my free jacuzzi... I am not living in a poor area, but I know that government doesn't have to do everything for me. I ask a road, some street lights, water and access to electricity (all for which I am willing to pay) and sewerage and the rest is my business...

 

[Captain Beer]

Any way the point is that whites own the most business. I do not need facts to back that up.

I'm white, I have my own business. It wasn't given to me, my parents didn't give me a car or pay for college.
It's called hard work. There are still months were we have to survive on packet soup and water, I'm not complaining, in twenty years time when I own a five bedroom house and drive Ferrari I wont feel guilty. I worked for it!

 

[avaratz]

Not sure if this has been posted already but anyway:

http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=13&art_id=vn20100526045128732C776902

Open toilets were not unique to Makhaza, Khayelitsha, as the previous ANC-led city administration had been guilty of the same thing in Samora Machel some years ago, said mayoral committee member for health Dumisani Ximbi.

Speaking during yesterday's budget debate, where the toilet issue took centre stage, Ximbi said the ANC should be the last party to complain about unwalled toilets because it also did something similar during its controversy-riddled tenure.

Why were the ANCYL not running rampant then? Where were these angry poor people when the ANC failed to provide for them? Why is it a race issue when the DA does it, but politely ignored when the ANC does? Also, where was the massive media coverage when the ANC failed to enclose the toilets?

There's the reason nothing is ever done in this country. The poor will stay poor, because they blindly follow a leadership who doesn't care about them, but shun the "racist" DA who try to extend a helping hand.

 

[SmartKit]

You are playing down the effect apartheid had.

You probably missed where the conversation drifted from the poor and toilets.

Once again... L-E-G-A-C-Y. Apartheid is over, boet.

 

[SmartKit]

Possibly, but apartheid can't do anything about it.

Dave that is a friggin' awesome quote!