Android dominates Apple, eats into mobile market

[Biscuit1018]

ok, meanwhile back on the actual topic....

With a better product range, superior prices and glowing reviews, this is going to be a glorious holiday season for Android.

Android don't sell anything.
Handset manufacturers do,

Lets compare apples with apples (sorry)

So Premium Android vs iPhone.

There is no question that Apple have some superb competitors in Samsung S3 (and the Nexus 4 but you cant get it here)

One can't claim 1 goal for an el cheapo Android device (with a old version of Android) and 1 goal for the Samsung S3. They all dont count 1 goal
It all depends what the objective is.

Google just want handsets with Android using their services
Apple want profitable sales. And lots of them. Pure numbers are not their game. Never has been.

Its possible that they can both achieve these objectives and both have a great holiday season.

The shoot out July to Sep between the Samsung Premium and the iPhone 4S was won by the Samsung Premium.
What would interest me is the October-December and the Jan-Mar shoot out between the S2/S3 and the iPhone 4S/5.

Of course once you get the Jan-Mar it starts to be unfair on Samsung (because of the S4 just as July-Sep was unfair on Apple)

 

[AlphaJohn]

Android don't sell anything.
Handset manufacturers do,

Lets compare apples with apples (sorry)

So Premium Android vs iPhone.

There is no question that Apple have some superb competitors in Samsung S3 (and the Nexus 4 but you cant get it here)

One can't claim 1 goal for an el cheapo Android device (with a old version of Android) and 1 goal for the Samsung S3. They all dont count 1 goal
It all depends what the objective is.

Google just want handsets with Android using their services
Apple want profitable sales. And lots of them. Pure numbers are not their game. Never has been.

Its possible that they can both achieve these objectives and both have a great holiday season.

The shoot out July to Sep between the Samsung Premium and the iPhone 4S was won by the Samsung Premium.
What would interest me is the October-December and the Jan-Mar shoot out between the S2/S3 and the iPhone 4S/5.

Of course once you get the Jan-Mar it starts to be unfair on Samsung (because of the S4 just as July-Sep was unfair on Apple)

What about Windows Phone 8 (Lumia 920) ?

That is my next phone.... well only because I WANT that camera

 

[Mouse]

Lets compare apples with apples (sorry)

So Premium Android vs iPhone.

In other words, lets tweak the numbers so that Apple has a chance at having a similar market share.
I would expect that thinking from someone looking to make an app that will need high end hardware, such as for a new game, but it makes no sense in this discussion.

With a better product range, superior prices and glowing reviews, this is going to be a glorious holiday season for Android.

+1

 

[cerebus]

In other words, lets tweak the numbers so that Apple has a chance at having a similar market share.
I would expect that thinking from someone looking to make an app that will need high end hardware, such as for a new game, but it makes no sense in this discussion.

Apple has nothing remotely close to Android's market share. What did you ever expect would happen when they give it away for free, and it's an extremely capable OS.



+1[/QUOTE]

 

[AlphaJohn]

In other words, lets tweak the numbers so that Apple has a chance at having a similar market share.
I would expect that thinking from someone looking to make an app that will need high end hardware, such as for a new game, but it makes no sense in this discussion.

What most people forget is that Apple (Not in SA) Sell there old phones to match Android in the lower income groups.

iPhone 4 = Free on contract
iPhone 4s = $99 on contact
iPhone 5 = From $199 on contract

Source: http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/shop_iphone

So you can say they DO cater for the low end as well.

 

[Mouse]

Apple has nothing remotely close to Android's market share. What did you ever expect would happen when they give it away for free, and it's an extremely capable OS.

This is pretty much what I expected to happen.

What most people forget is that Apple (Not in SA) Sell there old phones to match Android in the lower income groups.

iPhone 4 = Free on contract
iPhone 4s = on contact
iPhone 5 = From on contract

Source: http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/shop_iphone

So you can say they DO cater for the low end as well.

I wish they did that here too, so that there's more competition.

 

[Biscuit1018]

What about Windows Phone 8 (Lumia 920) ?

That is my next phone.... well only because I WANT that camera

Oh yes thats in the premium category

And I am waiting to either play with one OR for someone I know and trust to try it

 

[Biscuit1018]

What most people forget is that Apple (Not in SA) Sell there old phones to match Android in the lower income groups.

iPhone 4 = Free on contract
iPhone 4s = $99 on contact
iPhone 5 = From $199 on contract

Source: http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/shop_iphone

So you can say they DO cater for the low end as well.

Agreed except
* THat only happens in limited countries (like the USA)
* You can get Apple phones here 'free' on contract (but not for lopw income groups

Sure in the US Apple can hit a lower income group.
It cannot hit a low one like the cheap Android phones can

 

[AlphaJohn]

Agreed except
* THat only happens in limited countries (like the USA)
* You can get Apple phones here 'free' on contract (but not for lopw income groups

Sure in the US Apple can hit a lower income group.
It cannot hit a low one like the cheap Android phones can

So then it can not use "Cheap Android Phones" as an excuse for low numbers in the US. As for the rest of the world, its Apples own doing. No one is stopping them to have the same price deals in say South Africa.

 

[Biscuit1018]

In other words, lets tweak the numbers so that Apple has a chance at having a similar market share.
I would expect that thinking from someone looking to make an app that will need high end hardware, such as for a new game, but it makes no sense in this discussion.

+1

Ok, so you think a comparison of many, many handset providers vs one is the correct measure?
When many of those handsets dont compete with Samsung or Apple.

If the battle is purely a numbers one between iOS and Android then I would have conceded that years ago.
More numbers doesn't make it better.

I prefer a market segment view and it is in this segment where Samsung have done a magnificent job with their Android phones.
I still am not keen because they dont have stick Android and updates are too slow

 

[Biscuit1018]

So then it can not use "Cheap Android Phones" as an excuse for low numbers in the US. As for the rest of the world, its Apples own doing. No one is stopping them to have the same price deals in say South Africa.

Apple dont have low numbers in the USA.
And even so their phones dont cover all income groups anyway
I fail to understand the pre-occupation with a pure count.
Its not like with like.

Most Android phones are still on 2.1 or 2.2.
They can hardly be grouped with the S2/S3, iphone 4,4S, 5, Nexus, Nokia Lumina, HTC whatever

 

[cerebus]

Ok, so you think a comparison of many, many handset providers vs one is the correct measure?
When many of those handsets dont compete with Samsung or Apple.

You've totally missed the point man. Point being, Apple is losing and Android is winning. Klaar.

 

[Mouse]

Ok, so you think a comparison of many, many handset providers vs one is the correct measure?

If I wanted to know how many devices are out there, yes I would count them all.
It's not Google's fault that Apple chose to only have 1 phone.

I would divide them up based on the capability only if I needed to target said capability, and even then I would want to know what the rest have as well, to further help my decision making.

For example, if I were to make an app now, I would want to know about all these devices, how many there were and what they are capable of, so that I can make decisions such as "don't build in NFC support yet since most phones don't have it" or "make sure that this app works well enough on a phone with an 800mhz processor" if that represented a majority number.

 

[cerebus]

If I wanted to know how many devices are out there, yes I would count them all.
It's not Google's fault that Apple chose to only have 1 phone.

I would divide them up based on the capability only if I needed to target said capability, and even then I would want to know what the rest have as well, to further help my decision making.

For example, if I were to make an app now, I would want to know about all these devices, how many there were and what they are capable of, so that I can make decisions such as "don't build in NFC support yet since most phones don't have it" or "make sure that this app works well enough on a phone with an 800mhz processor" if that represented a majority number.

Yes but remember you're talking about hugely diverse manufacturers as well as devices as well as Android revisions. At present, to say Android vs iOS is basically saying Apple vs everybody else who makes phones except Nokia and RIM. So everyone else combined is outselling Apple by a fairly large margin; that's great. But it doesn't tell you very much that's useful about anything. Where is the money flowing? Which handset classes compose the bulk of that amount, and how much of a margin is made on those, in hardware and apps? How satisfied are those customers? How much aware are they that they've even bought an Android handset?

 

[AlphaJohn]

Most Android phones are still on 2.1 or 2.2.
They can hardly be grouped with the S2/S3, iphone 4,4S, 5, Nexus, Nokia Lumina, HTC whatever

Yet there is not a single 3.* + phone that can even remotely compete with my Xperia Play still on 2.3
Whats even funnier is that I have all the same features as the brand new Nexus 4 plus more (Gaming controls)

Now that is something you can not say about iPhones or Show me an iPhone 4 with Siri?

 

[Biscuit1018]

Yet there is not a single 3.* + phone that can even remotely compete with my Xperia Play still on 2.3
Whats even funnier is that I have all the same features as the brand new Nexus 4 plus more (Gaming controls)
?

Ok most of that is opinion. One I disagree with

Since we are sticking to facts, the Androids stuck on 2.x are huge.
Why arent they upgradeable?

 

[AlphaJohn]

Ok most of that is opinion. One I disagree with

Since we are sticking to facts, the Androids stuck on 2.x are huge.
Why arent they upgradeable?

9 times out of 10 its because of Space. For example the Xperia only has 512 MB of space 280 MB is used for 2.3. Android 4.0 is almost 400 Mb on its own.

The other issue is normally driver related. Android 2.* was still on Linux 2.6.* Kernels, ICS changed to the new 3.* Linux kernel. The official drivers would need complete rewrite and some where so old that OEM's reckoned its better to phase out the old technology (Pretend it never existed in the 1st place)

Thing is that Linux in itself is open source and as the Hackers tinker to get Linux working on old hardware with the new 3.* kernel so came support for the old devices. XDA just continues this work in their ROM's in bring support.

The jump between Android 2.* to Android 4.* is basicly the same as Windows Phone 7 and Windows Phone 8. They use totally different kernels.


TL;DR not worth the cost to support the old hardware with new drivers.

 

[droidx]

Ok most of that is opinion. One I disagree with

Since we are sticking to facts, the Androids stuck on 2.x are huge.
Why arent they upgradeable?

Another fact: not all features of the latest ios is included for revisions of older models. Why don't Apple include all features in these updates?

 

[Mouse]

Yes but remember you're talking about hugely diverse manufacturers as well as devices as well as Android revisions. At present, to say Android vs iOS is basically saying Apple vs everybody else who makes phones except Nokia and RIM. So everyone else combined is outselling Apple by a fairly large margin; that's great. But it doesn't tell you very much that's useful about anything. Where is the money flowing? Which handset classes compose the bulk of that amount, and how much of a margin is made on those, in hardware and apps? How satisfied are those customers? How much aware are they that they've even bought an Android handset?

Agreed. And to get that sort of answer would either require some sort of survey with a large enough sample,
or inspecting hardware + software whenever someone switches on their phone and goes online (which I'm sure Google is already doing)

 

[Biscuit1018]

Another fact: not all features of the latest ios is included for revisions of older models. Why don't Apple include all features in these updates?

Absolutely true

In some cases its because there is a hardware limitation of the older device prohibiting the new feature.
I do suspect that sometimes it is held back for product differentiation reasons (a less noble reason granted).

Either way it's better than giving no upgrade at all.

We all have our own criteria.

Me - I expect my handset manufacturer to keep me in updates for at least 2-3 years after I buy a new device.
I also don't want to be 1 or 2 releases behind because my handset manufacturer is too lazyto cut an update or it is trying to force me to buy a new device.

Not hard criteria
a) 2-3 years update protection (pref 3)
b) Updates available (no sideloading, rooting etc. to do it) within a couple of months of release (pref sooner)

Am I unfair?

And before anyone says it - Nexus 4 seems a decent bet