Antenna installation and alignment

[JerryMungo]

Of course it's not feasible to permanently locate your LTE router outside! Which goes back to a point I made previously, Huawei should include the XPOL-0001 + 7m cable with a special edition LTE CPE.

Why not?
Just connect POE / ethernet and house the router in a weather proof housing.
What does mobile data cost these days? Still a way off ADSL I'm guessing.

 

[Azimuth]

Honestly for the effort, one might as well buy any outdoor antenna then.

The B593, nor any mobile router I know of, supports PoE. So then we're talking about an outside power point as well. Next you you will *want* to use outdoor antennas as the internal antennas will be less effective inside a box.

Too much effort and the cost will be more.

Mobile data prices have come a long way. Afrihost Mobile offer 20GB at R497. Telkom Mobile offer 60+60GB at R1,899 or 25+25GB at R999. There are also other packages from both operators

 

[JerryMungo]

Honestly for the effort, one might as well buy any outdoor antenna then.

The B593, nor any mobile router I know of, does not support PoE. So then we're talking about an outside power point as well. Next you you will *want* to use outdoor antennas as the internal antennas will be less effective inside a box.
Too much effort and the cost will be more.

Why does it have to support POE? Just DIY. And why the heck will the antennas be less effective in a box made of fiberglass? If anything, they might lose a tiny bit of gain when the box is wet. Hardly worth a mention IMO. So those are indoor antennas above? What about the gain loss with those long cables?

Mobile data prices have come a long way. Afrihost Mobile offer 20GB at R497. Telkom Mobile offer 60+60GB at R1,899 or 25+25GB at R999. There are also other packages from both operators

OK. Yeah, it's come a long way but pity it's still a heck of a long way from DSL still. R50 pm for 20Gb ADSL from Afrihost.

 

[K-Tech]

I am thinking of using a wire coat hanger for starters

Edit: I am trying to find a second coat hanger so that I can have MIMO

 

[Azimuth]

Why does it have to support POE? Just DIY. And why the heck will the antennas be less effective in a box made of fiberglass? If anything, they might lose a tiny bit of gain when the box is wet. Hardly worth a mention IMO. So those are indoor antennas above? What about the gain loss with those long cables?

OK. Yeah, it's come a long way but pity it's still a heck of a long way from DSL still. R50 pm for 20Gb ADSL from Afrihost.

You will definitely fry the device if one of the LAN ports doesn't support PoE injection.

Regards the fiberglass box, I guess it will be RF transparent but then on the other hand, how hot will it get in the sun? I'll stick to a simple outdoor antenna thanks.

The XPOL-0001 is a smidge over R600. I think that's affordable. Would be nice to see a new version with 2300MHz support though.

 

[K-Tech]

On a mission for speed without that blerry antenna

After also reading about Cell ID and going to the web site which the map do not indicate my current tower.
I have decided to try other towers to see what the results will be.

Today I have taken the B593 ouside to see what other towers around me has to offer (with build in antennas)

With the tower about 500m away from me I get the following results:
Rssi -40dBm
Rsrp -66dBm
Rsrq -6db
25Mbps d/l
7-8 Mbps u/l

With the tower about 3km away from me I get the following results:
Rssi -42dBm
Rsrp -68dBm
Rsrq -6db
21Mbps d/l (down)
7-8 Mbps u/l

Then I decided to turn the B593 back to the first tower 500m away but with a little off-set to get the same dBm reading as with the tower 3km away. I get the following results:
Rssi -42dBm
Rsrp -68dBm
Rsrq -6db
25Mbps d/l (same)
7-8 Mbps u/l

The reason why I did this test is to see how much effect the dBm readings has on speed v.s. distance. and why I need that ext. outdoor antenna for such small distance for more speed.

I now understand that a small incline in dbm (-2dBm to -4dBm) has no effect on speed if the tower is close by but it certainly makes a -speed difference over distance.

Signal needs more power (+gain) over distance to obtain same dBm readings.

That means (I think) if I install an external antenna pointing to the tower 500m away it might NOT improve major on the dBm readings but it will increase in speed due to the excess power (+gain) of the antenna.

So +gain is the ingredient I need... Any RF expert to help/confirm please.

Thanks.
:wtf:

 

[Azimuth]

Great experiments! It would be nice if we could see the Cell_ID for each of those runs. Sigh.

Your 3km test doesn't add up. It looks like exactly the same tower to me (500m) judging by those readings.

In your case I agree with your initial sentiment, an outdoor antenna isn't worth it. You're already maxing out the 30Mbps cell tower.

If you could somehow confirm if the 3km tower is 100Mbps, perhaps it would be worth further investigation.

Which antenna are you testing with anyway? I tried looking back but came up empty.

Edit: You're using the internal antennas? Those are omni and will always locate the closest tower. You can only test the tower 500m away.

 

[jcheek]

K-Tech, I suspect that one of the towers in your area (possibly the 500m one) is causing a signal so powerful in your vicinity that your poor B593 is not even thinking about changing cells. There are only a few users on the forum with reported RSRP as high as -80dBm, and you're one of them.
Looking at those results, the signal levels (and speeds) are to all intents and purposes identical.
Even though you are turning the B593 to different angles, I reckon it is logging into the same cell every time.

It looks to me like you are in the same boat as Teejaybee : You already have a near-perfect signal from one particular tower and the speed constraint (or fault) lies elsewhere. It may be that the equipment on that nearby tower is set to limit connections to a certain maximum speed (30Mbps ?) and/or the backhaul feeding that tower just doesn't have more capacity.

If you absolutely must have more speed now, you might try forcing a connection to one of the other towers you mention to ascertain if perhaps it has higher speed/capacity. And about the only ways I can think of to do that in your situation are:

1) First, verify your results with a different B593 if possible (just in case of a dodgy unit. Seems unlikely).
2) Physically drive to those towers, verify that they do indeed have Telkom Mobile kit, and then try the speedtest right there with a laptop. That at least might raise the chance of logging into that particular cell.
3) Try a very directional antenna that reduces gain to the sides and focuses sensitivity in one direction. That might also raise your chances of logging into a specific cell.

Obviously if (2) is positive, ie you find a higher-capacity tower, then you might have more confidence trying (3).

But it may also be time to sit back and be happy that you have a stable 25Mbps connection ... at least, for now.

 

[Azimuth]

How is everyone measuring distance to a cell tower? Google Earth uses ground distance not LOS. In my case that adds on an extra 300m...

 

[K-Tech]

Oh shucks I forgot the internal antennas are omni.... total waste of a experiment
Facing different directions was a total Schuster move

However do you think the +gain have something to do with it...?

I did go to that website showing cell id (can't remember now) showed many towers + ids but not the one 500m away (must be a new tower) How or where can I see the cell_id my B593 is connected to?

So some towers are only 30Mbps and others 100 Mbps! I just knew it, so I planted myself next to a slow tower.

Now I am eager to get that external outdoor antenna

 

[Azimuth]

How is everyone measuring distance to a cell tower? Google Earth uses ground distance not LOS. In my case that adds on an extra 300m...

Oops, turns out I'm not that good at using maps. It would appear Google Earth ground distance is accurate. I just used an iPhone app called "Measure Your Land" and I *am* 1622m away, not 1300m.

https://itunes.apple.com/za/app/measure-your-land/id520183630?mt=8

 

[Azimuth]

Oh shucks I forgot the internal antennas are omni.... total waste of a experiment
Facing different directions was a total Schuster move

However do you think the +gain have something to do with it...?

I did go to that website showing cell id (can't remember now) showed many towers + ids but not the one 500m away (must be a new tower) How or where can I see the cell_id my B593 is connected to?

So some towers are only 30Mbps and others 100 Mbps! I just knew it, so I planted myself next to a slow tower.

Now I am eager to get that external outdoor antenna

Hi Schucks!

Readings do vary slightly, that's normal.

The B593s-601 doesn't report the Cell_ID, only the older models such as B593u-91 or B593u-22.

And yes, a standard cell tower has a maximum connection speed of 30Mbps. Upgraded towers have a 100Mbps cap. I only know mine was upgraded at some point because I've hit 73Mbps before.

Hit the Poynting thread and take your pick of outdoor antennas.

 

[K-Tech]

Hi jcheek, Thanks...

I've gathered that my experiment was a total waste after Azimuth's post.... ai ai ai (omni - stupid me)

So then you guys agree I should not need an antenna and my speed is limited by the tower nearby.
This is great amo for the war I am currently having with TM and I think this is a new tower as its not on the cell_id map.

I'll rather fight a little longer with TM, not having to spend the money...

Thank you guys I just knew, if I had to go closer to the tower - I could just as well rent some space on it... hahahaha

 

[K-Tech]

Hi Schucks!

Hit the Poynting thread and take your pic of outdoor antennas.

Azimuth, now I feel like a real drol

I'll meet you on that thread

 

[Azimuth]

What is this Cell_ID map you refer to?

Edit: sorry man, I might've made that same mistake at one point. We're all here to learn something.

 

[K-Tech]

What is this Cell_ID map you refer to?

Edit: sorry man, I might've made that same mistake at one point. We're all here to learn something.

Someone post a link to it and I went there last night, I can't remember and it's not in my history anymore.
So with al the new threads going I have more searching to do to find it again.... will let you know if I get it.

 

[jcheek]

...
I think this is a new tower as its not on the cell_id map.

You mean the one from ATC ? This one ?
Not complete, unfortunately. Telkom may well have base stations on towers which aren't owned by ATC.

2) Physically drive to those towers, verify that they do indeed have Telkom Mobile kit, and then try the speedtest right there with a laptop. That at least might raise the chance of logging into that particular cell.

I'd still recommend you do that, if possible .... just to see if any of the other towers is faster. Would be a good thing to do before you splurge on the antenna!

And yes, a standard cell tower has a maximum connection speed of 30Mbps. Upgraded towers have a 100Mbps cap. I only know mine was upgraded at some point because I've hit 73Mbps before.

The new "100Mbps class" is well-publicised, but do we know that the "old" limit was 30Mbps ?
I've only ever seen Teejaybee refer to the 30Mbps limit based on his discussions with Telkom reps.
Does the "old" limit relate at all to LTE Category 2 at 50Mbps ?

 

[Azimuth]

I don't know for sure actually but have seen more than one person referring to a 30Mbps cap. Probably not a good idea to swing it around as fact until we've investigated more.

If the old limit was 30Mbps, I don't think any changes were made to provide specifically for LTE except upgrade viable towers directly to 100Mbps.

 

[K-Tech]

Hi jcheek, no that was not the link sorry but I have find another on google and it is easier,
just punch in my address to find myself and see all the towers around me....

And it's updated as it has my 500m tower included...
However I have learned that, that tower is NOT my TM tower

So now I will check the towers out and learn from there... and then just buy that blerry ext antenna if needed but I will have to confirm the tower speed first b4 buying.

Here is that link http://opencellid.org/

 

[K-Tech]

Playing with that open cell id link ... nice

NOT EVEN ONE TM TOWER IN MY AREA
mostly Voda and MTN....
So my TM LTE cover with the compliments of MTN ??? hehehe

Glad I found this link