Antenna installation and alignment

[jcheek]

jcheek - I think that must be one of the most detailed responses (right at the top of this page) that I've come across in a very long time.
Kudos to you!

Much obliged sir!

PS (and O/T) :I gather you're a fan of good coffee. Kindred spirits!
Did you make the investment yet ?
If not, I have two key phrases for you : "Bean-to-cup" and "Manual milk steamer" lol.

 

[Muttley]

Much obliged sir!

PS (and O/T) :I gather you're a fan of good coffee. Kindred spirits!
Did you make the investment yet ?
If not, I have two key phrases for you : "Bean-to-cup" and "Manual milk steamer" lol.

I am... I'll just say this before I get skopped for posting in wrong section- the machine I want is not avail here... eish! I'll post on other thread.

 

[Tjoker]

hi @jcheek

I have some feedback :

Visited Poynting yesterday, and they made the XBOL-0006 10m cable shorter to 4.5m. I also ask that they but SMA connectors on the remaining cable, just in case. I also picked up the 3m mast from them.

I could not find a 12V DC car adapter, so popped in by Telkom shop to buy a prepaid LTE sim, to test with my phone. Turns out, you cannot buy the sim with drivers license, you need your ID....so i will do that today or tomorrow.

Got home, swapped out the 2m mast with the 3m mast. Connected the B315s the directly to 4.5m cable. I played for two hours in all directions, although my signal was better, the SINR value was all over the place. It looked like the higher I went the more interference there was. The SINR value was jumping all over the place. I could not get better than 2 dBm, in any direction :wtf:

So I got frustrated, dismounted the 3m mast, and put the antenna back on the 2m mast. As I was busy doing this, my eye caught the laptop showing impressive numbers :

Cell ID 16947715
RSRP : -80 dBm
SINR : 18 dB

I realized that I forgot to switch of the modem!!

Seeing this, I proceeded to walk with the mast all along the side of the house. I found cell ID16947715 again. I positioned and aligned the best possible value I could get. Strangely, the lower I went(from the gutters downwards), the better the readings I got. I found a sweet spot, 1,75m-2,2m from the ground. So i mounted the antenna on the front part of my stoep. The signal was so strong and quality was exceptional, I could not believe it!

Cell ID 16947715
RSRP : -82 to -83 dBm
SINR : 20-21 dB

Download : 35-40 Mbps
Upload : 8-10 Mbps

In peak time!!!!

So after super excitement, I moved the router inside, and connected the 10m extension. Connected the extension cable to antenna in the roof.After router bootup, I was connected to CellID 16947715. Did a few more SpeedTests, very happy at this point :

Cell ID 16947715
RSRP : -88dBm
SINR : 20-21 dB

Download : 35-40 Mbps
Upload : 8-10 Mbps

Note : With the 10m cable extension, the RSRP dropped by 6 dBm, but SINR was still stable at 20-21 dB. SpeedTests was the same as above.

Until I restarted the modem.......low and behold, CellID 16947712 again. So I restarted a few times, still no luck

I did notice my stats with this CellID 16947712 was a lot better than before :

Cell ID 16947712
RSRP : -88dBm
SINR : 15-17 dB

Download : 25-30 Mbps
Upload : 4-6 Mbps

Note : Cell ID 16947712 and Cell ID 16947715 signal strength was the same at -88dBa, so I suspect they are setting on the roof, tower. I must be in between two sectors.

So my next step was to experimented with different frequencies, to try and lock in CellID 16947715, but no luck. During my experiment, setting to 1800Mhz, CellID 16947722 popped up?!?!?!

Cell ID 16947722
RSRP : -92dBm
SINR : 10-12 dB

So I factory reset the modem, picked up CellID 16947715 again

Cell ID 16947715
RSRP : -88dBm
SINR : 20-21 dB

Download : 40-45 Mbps
Upload : 7-8 Mbps

Still peak time.

So I restarted the router, Cell ID 16947712 again. So I gave up, and run SpeedTest periodically until midnight, getting 25-30 Mbps. Just after midnight, got 35-40 Mbps until 1am this morning when I went to bed. This morning, still connected to Cell ID 16947712 :

Cell ID 16947712
RSRP : -88dBm
SINR : 16-18 dB

Download : 22-28 Mbps
Upload : 3-4 Mbps

Conclusion :

Why am I getting better signal with lower antenna? Cellphone signal "bouncing"?

Cell ID 16947715 is clearly the strongest/best signal, but I cannot seem to lock onto it. Cell ID 16947712 was super bad before(on 2m mast), even worst on 3m mast, but with this lower antenna position I have a strong and stable signal, with decent speeds.

So now to find a way to lock onto Cell ID 16947715 Any BlackHat hackers out there?!?

EDIT :

I missed this part for some reason in your post.

In this thread the guys are also experimenting with ways (editing a config file) to lock the modem to one specific frequency.

Which page are you referring to?

What is your actual RSRQ ? The "ideal" is around -6dB or higher, I suspect you are probably seeing a lower figure, maybe -8 or -10 ?

I checked http://192.168.1.1/api/device/signal in Chrome

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<response>
<pci>21</pci>
<sc></sc>
<cell_id>16947712</cell_id>
<rsrq></rsrq>
<rsrp>-88dBm</rsrp>
<rssi></rssi>
<sinr>16dB</sinr>
<rscp></rscp>
<ecio></ecio>
<mode>7</mode>
</response>

RSSI and RSRQ values are blank

Extra note :

Hi all,
I've noticed that the performance over wifi with either my iPhone or Laptop is really poor (+-10-15mb/s via speedtest) yet when connected to Laptop or PC via ethernet, I get amazing speeds (+- 60-70mb/s). This is even when I'm standing next to the B315 with full wifi signal.

I know that many people have mentioned that the B315 is not great and that one should rather use this router as a modem and then connect another router for wifi/ethernet.
TIA

I will do a couple SpeedTests via my PC, as I did all of the above with my laptop on Wifi. Apparently the B315s Wifi is shyte.

Will also eventually remove the 10m extension cable (as soon as I can get power in the roof for B315s), and run the LAN from the B315s in the roof to my Netgear DGN2200.

 

[Alacrity]

Why am I getting better signal with lower antenna?

LTE is a MIMO configuration and thus can gain additional performance if the two stream are not exactly the same. Multipath can work to your advantage when using MIMO.

 

[Muttley]

LTE is a MIMO configuration and thus can gain additional performance if the two stream are not exactly the same. Multipath can work to your advantage when using MIMO.

Had a similar scenario at one of our offices where I did the exact same thing and purchased a 3m pole for the antenna, thinking the higher up, the better the performance will be.
The stats and performance were rubbish and improved drastically when I lowered the antenna well below the top of the 3m pole. In the end it was mounted about 5m lower than top of the 3m pole and results have been ok in an area with no LTE coverage.

 

[Alacrity]

According to MLS (Mozilla Location Service)

Cell ID: 16947712 Pos: -33.8990317, 18.6128828
Cell ID: 16947715 Pos: -33.8932025, 18.6086812
Cell ID: 16947722 Pos: -33.9075036, 18.6027893

 

[Tjoker]

According to MLS (Mozilla Location Service)

Cell ID: 16947712 Pos: -33.8990317, 18.6128828
Cell ID: 16947715 Pos: -33.8932025, 18.6086812
Cell ID: 16947722 Pos: -33.9075036, 18.6027893

If these locations are accurate, im going to KISS you!!

EDIT : According to these values, Cell ID: 16947715 is right next to me, as in 200m away, Karl Bremer Hospital, other side of the house. I have no idea how im picking up an already good signal on the other side of the house, lower to the ground

EDIT 2 : Did you write an app with the API to obtain the above values?

 

[Alacrity]

Downloaded the database

 

[Alacrity]

If these locations are accurate, im going to KISS you!!

I don't want that kiss but do want to know if the data is correct

 

[Tjoker]

According to MLS (Mozilla Location Service)

Cell ID: 16947712 Pos: -33.8990317, 18.6128828
Cell ID: 16947715 Pos: -33.8932025, 18.6086812
Cell ID: 16947722 Pos: -33.9075036, 18.6027893

I don't want that kiss but do want to know if the data is correct

EDIT :

The information looks legit, compared with other sites and apps. I went out to buy Telkom sim today, I will verify the physical location of each of these towers tonight

EDIT 2:

Seems like I can only pickup 3G on the prepaid sim, any clue how to activate LTE. Probably phone Telkom Mobile?

EDIT 3:

I don't understand how cell phone signal actually works. In terms of the signal beaming from tower. How trees and building effect this signal.

 

[Tjoker]

Update :

I can use a Telkom Mobile sim card in my phone, except my phone, Blackberry Passport doesn't support 2300MHz band..FFS!! Cell C and Vodacom works fine. I can only pickup 3G towers, but none of the Tower ID's I mentioned are popping up.

 

[ginggs]

I can only pickup 3G towers, but none of the Tower ID's I mentioned are popping up.

What Cell IDs are you seeing?

 

[Alacrity]

MLS (Mozilla Location Service)
Cell ID: 16947712 Pos: -33.8990317, 18.6128828
Cell ID: 16947715 Pos: -33.8932025, 18.6086812
Cell ID: 16947722 Pos: -33.9075036, 18.6027893

Open Cell ID
Cell ID: 16947712 Pos: -33.899957, 18.613275
Cell ID: 16947715 Pos: -33.892975, 18.608349
Cell ID: 16947722 Pos: -33.907504, 18.602789

They don't agree so the way the get these positions is probably not very accurate...

 

[Tjoker]

I drove around yesterday trying to search at these co-ordinates, and could not find one of them. CellID 16947715, the one im after, is supposedly on Karl Bremer Hospital's roof, again, I don't see anything.

 

[jcheek]

so popped in by Telkom shop to buy a prepaid LTE sim, to test with my phone.

Could work (if phone has 2.3GHz support - most don't), but better to use the actual device you plan to connect with, IMO.

I could not find a 12V DC car adapter

Pity. Easy enough to make one up, though ...

played for two hours in all directions, although my signal was better ... could not get better than 2dB, in any direction :wtf:

Finding where your nearest stations are is a key step. Without this info, you are shooting in the dark a bit, especially with the additional complication of 1.8GHz/2.3GHz operation.
Looking at your results, you need to figure out the locations (and hopefully frequencies) of those 3 stations (Cell ID: 16947712, 16947715, 16947722). More on this later ...
It's also important to establish whether you have direct line-of-sight to any station(s), or if you are dealing with a multi-path environment (reflected signals).
Also, make sure you force the modem to re-search after making large azimuth (direction) changes, otherwise it will tend to "hang on" to the previously-connected station and will take a while to switch stations. Sounds like you might have had this behaviour later on.

Until I restarted the modem.......lo and behold, CellID 16947712 again. So I restarted a few times, still no luck.

Re-starting (as in, power off and on) will probably not change the connected cell. The modem "remembers" which cell it was connected before power-down and tries to re-connect to that cell first after power-up.
You need to force a manual network search and signal evaluation cycle. Re-setting to factory defaults should also work, though it's a bit more extreme.

Seeing this, I proceeded to walk with the mast all along the side of the house. I found cell ID16947715 again. I positioned and aligned the best possible value I could get. Strangely, the lower I went(from the gutters downwards), the better the readings I got. I found a sweet spot, 1,75m-2,2m from the ground. So i mounted the antenna on the front part of my stoep.
Why am I getting better signal with lower antenna? Cellphone signal "bouncing"?
Cell ID 16947715 is clearly the strongest/best signal, but I cannot seem to lock onto it. Cell ID 16947712 was super bad before(on 2m mast), even worst on 3m mast, but with this lower antenna position I have a strong and stable signal, with decent speeds.

From your results I think it's pretty clear that your modem's switching between stations.
With Telkom having recently rolled out LTE at 1.8GHz in addition to 2.3GHz, and with the B315 supporting both frequencies, you have the additional variable that it may also be switching frequency bands.
Could also be that you found a particular multipath "sweet spot", as already mentioned.

I missed this part for some reason in your post. Which page are you referring to?

Not sure where I saw the specifics. Something about editing a line in an XML (?) config file.
Poke around here somewhere, or ask directly on the B315 thread, if you haven't already found it.

RSSI and RSRQ values are blank

Not sure why your unit doesn't display them. Make sure you're always in 4G mode ?
Another question for the B315 thread, I think.

I will do a couple SpeedTests via my PC, as I did all of the above with my laptop on Wifi. Apparently the B315s Wifi is shyte.

For your initial testing, rather use wired ethernet. Using another wireless link (Wi-Fi) just introduces another variable into your testing.
Once you've got a stable configuration and you know what performance is possible/typical, then you can re-introduce a Wi-Fi link.

 

[jcheek]

I drove around yesterday trying to search at these co-ordinates, and could not find one of them. CellID 16947715, the one im after, is supposedly on Karl Bremer Hospital's roof, again, I don't see anything.

Google Earth, and Google Streetview, are your friends .



Sometimes the Streetview imagery's a bit old, but very often it's good enough for a desktop go/no-go assessment.

 

[AntennaMan]

Hi guys

I want to install my XPOL-A0006 this weekend, but I'm struggling to find the tripod wall bracket and a 3m mast. Poynting direct has the mast, but no brackets. Does anyone know of a place in the Randburg area where I can get the bracket (and maybe even the mast)?

Edit:
Does Builders stock these types of things?

 

[Muttley]

Hi guys

I want to install my XPOL-A0006 this weekend, but I'm struggling to find the tripod wall bracket and a 3m mast. Poynting direct has the mast, but no brackets. Does anyone know of a place in the Randburg area where I can get the bracket (and maybe even the mast)?

Edit:
Does Builders stock these types of things?

They do- go to the TV aerial section.

I suggest you use raw bolt to mount the bracket to the wall.

You may want to consider a blinking red light for the top of the pole if it's very high up

 

[jcheek]

Hi guys
I want to install my XPOL-A0006 this weekend, but I'm struggling to find the tripod wall bracket and a 3m mast. Poynting direct has the mast, but no brackets. Does anyone know of a place in the Randburg area where I can get the bracket (and maybe even the mast)?

Try Ellies. They stock the 40mm masts and the brackets.
Also consider using the 50mm Ellies mast instead. The extra 10mm and the slightly thicker material add a lot of rigidity. Only snag is it's usually only available in a 6m length.

Edit: Does Builders stock these types of things?

Yes, you can often find the Ellies 3-leg brackets and the 40mm masts at Builders.

PS: Before you drill the holes in the wall for the bracket, lay it flat on the floor and check that the mounting surface is level / parallel to the floor. The brackets are pretty crude and most are quite squiff. It's not that obvious when looking at the bracket in isolation, but it makes a big difference on a 3- or 4m mast when erected. Really easy to do by bending the 3rd leg on the ground, but really hard to do once the mast is up and the holes are drilled (spacers etc) - trust me on this one - doh! .

You may want to consider a blinking red light for the top of the pole if it's very high up

"Coffee here" ?

 

[AntennaMan]

They do- go to the TV aerial section.

I suggest you use raw bolt to mount the bracket to the wall.

You may want to consider a blinking red light for the top of the pole if it's very high up

Thanks, will have a look. Expansion bolts has always been part of the plan!

If I do the blinky red light, I might as well up the mast to 15m or so to go over the trees! :crylaugh: