Are things really that bad in SA?

[Bassist]

I think there are people made their fortunes in Germany during ww2. Would you say that things there were not so bad as well?

For them, not. For the others? Most definately.

I do not understand this "it is bad for many people, thus it is/must be/ should be/ will be / could be bad for me too" attitude.

 

[Bassist]

It's very easy to live "successfully".

All you need to do is lower your expectations. And standards.

Too bad for those who decide to do it that way.

For me, I would RAISE my expectations and standards, and do whatever it takes to become successful as such.

Edit: thanks for helping me think of it like this, I am adding it to the table.

 

[Bassist]

Here is the updated table of characteristics I have gathered so far, for those SA success people:

Characteristic	Need loads of money?	Need lily pond upbringing?
1. friendly, positive, charismatic	no	no. some people are born a p*** but it can be learned to be nice to other people
2. resourceful, outgoing, helpful, innovative	no	no. you can become resourceful by listening.
3. physically attractive	no	yes. Some people are born beautiful, others ugly as hell.
4. young	no	n/a. But you can't change your age.
5. knows many friends, have a huge support network, both career-wise and private/social	no	no. but being nice to people would help build a network from scratch.
6. very witty and street wise	no	no
7. able to make "correct" life decisions based on their personal contexts	no	no, but you probably need proper parenting.
8. does some form of active sport	maybe, depends which sport	no, unless you are born paraplegic.
9. strong mental energy. "Get up and go" attitude	no	no
10. travel a lot, even if on a tight budget	somewhat. But if you have lots of friends (see above) you can stay over with them or share transport costs if travelling with them.	no
11. socialise with other people to maintain/expand their network, instead of staying home and playing games / watching Netflix.	no	no
12. Raise their standards and expectations, instead of lowering them just to be able to feel "successful"	maybe. Kloof street gourmet burgers and craft beer cost more than 2-minute noodles	no

Let's grow the list or narrow down. We are getting closer to the magic formula successful people in SA use that allow them to stay on in godforsaken Africa!

 

[Ancalagon]

@Bassist

I kinda don't know what your whole vibe is with this. Like, sorry if I haven't read the thread, but what's your point?

Is it that, if you have certain characteristics, you can be successful no matter which country you're in? Yeah, probably true. A lot of the most important criteria for success can be learned by the way. You just have to put the time in.

Are you trying to convince yourself to move back to SA? Sure, go ahead.

My two cents on the subject is:

Money can buy you a lot, especially in Africa. But if the government implements NHI, it won't be able to buy you healthcare. That is actually my biggest worry. Your success then has no value in getting you the healthcare you need. You could be the most main alpha boet every wearing Ralph Lauren Polo shirts every day and smashing two hot blonde belters at the same time, but if your liver packs up, you've had it. You have to fly to Robert Mugabe's clinic in Singapore and hope they can sort you out.

If they implement NHI mind you. If they don't, then you're fine. South African private health care is some of the best in the world.

Second point is you've talked a lot about success but not about happiness. Happiness is worth reading up about - for that you need philosophy. I recommend stoic philosophy - the works of Seneca are particularly good, and Buddhist philosophy has some nice overlaps.

Because you have to accept that the best planned life will not make you happy, that bad things can still happen.

 

[Ancalagon]

Too bad for those who decide to do it that way.

For me, I would RAISE my expectations and standards, and do whatever it takes to become successful as such.

Edit: thanks for helping me think of it like this, I am adding it to the table.

Elon Musk and his brother slept and work for the same room for something like a year or two until they made it. In other words, they didn't go home to sleep after a long day of work. They worked until they were too tired and then they slept in sleeping bags.

JK Rowling was a single mother on benefits and the publisher told her that she shouldn't quit her day job (she didn't have one) because she wasn't likely to make it.

Lower your expectations but raising your standards is not a bad idea.

 

[cguy]

Au contraire. The people I know who go jolling in Kloof street live in shared apartments with other friends, like bums, in the CBD or closeby. But they have some jobs like call centre agents so they have a stable income (albeit low) that cover the basics like the miniscule rent, food, and party. Or they are studying at City Varsity or something from money they got while working overseas for 6 months or so. Some of them have some website business running in the background (or they share some website with some other friends, each contribute their part of the work to get it up and running, so there is some cash flowing in there too). These are some facts I know of the people I mentioned that stuff their faces with burgers in Kloof street. Afterwards they party in Long street, but I don't think they go excessive with expensive liqour or so.

The point is, they are having a good time, and all this "ANC is messing everyone's lives up" is seemingly not affecting them. Sure, they may be without a job next year or so, but they are using the time now to have fun and learn the ropes of adapting in the "new" South Africa. They are making contacts left, right and centre, and learning job-related skills that are so dynamic and up-to-date that they will be employable nearly anywhere I'd guess, because their career and life skills are up-to-date, they are young, got little money but little responsibilities either.

There are some of us who b**** and moan about SA and spend evenings playing computer games or watching Netflix, and trying to flee SA, while these guys stay behind and actively work on their networking in their own way (by largely socialising, or working in a social way).

It is different for the examples of people I mentioned that are older and have kids, maybe I elaborate on that in the same context as above later, but you pointed out to the Kloof street knuckleheads, so above I sketched what I know of them and how it relates to the point I make in this thread.

It looks as though your definition of successful, includes being one paycheck away from homelessness, one baby away from financial devastation, one illness away from utter misery, one economic crisis away from being trapped, and 5 years away from becoming an undesirable 3rd wheel by actual successful friends.

So like @Ancalagon I'm a little confused about your actual point - it's like you're saying that because there exists a bunch of people in SA who skate on the edge of disaster, yet seem unphased by it, it may be better to move back to SA and become one of them?

 

[Ancalagon]

Au contraire. The people I know who go jolling in Kloof street live in shared apartments with other friends, like bums, in the CBD or closeby. But they have some jobs like call centre agents so they have a stable income (albeit low) that cover the basics like the miniscule rent, food, and party. Or they are studying at City Varsity or something from money they got while working overseas for 6 months or so. Some of them have some website business running in the background (or they share some website with some other friends, each contribute their part of the work to get it up and running, so there is some cash flowing in there too). These are some facts I know of the people I mentioned that stuff their faces with burgers in Kloof street. Afterwards they party in Long street, but I don't think they go excessive with expensive liqour or so.

The point is, they are having a good time, and all this "ANC is messing everyone's lives up" is seemingly not affecting them. Sure, they may be without a job next year or so, but they are using the time now to have fun and learn the ropes of adapting in the "new" South Africa. They are making contacts left, right and centre, and learning job-related skills that are so dynamic and up-to-date that they will be employable nearly anywhere I'd guess, because their career and life skills are up-to-date, they are young, got little money but little responsibilities either.

There are some of us who b**** and moan about SA and spend evenings playing computer games or watching Netflix, and trying to flee SA, while these guys stay behind and actively work on their networking in their own way (by largely socialising, or working in a social way).

It is different for the examples of people I mentioned that are older and have kids, maybe I elaborate on that in the same context as above later, but you pointed out to the Kloof street knuckleheads, so above I sketched what I know of them and how it relates to the point I make in this thread.

How old are you?

Anyway, I hate to nitpick, but I hate this idea of networking.

I know a few successful people. By successful, I mean able to stop working tomorrow because they actually don't need the money. Really successful people. People who have done stuff, started businesses, written books, that sort of thing.

None of them treat networking like it is this thing that is going to bring them success. They interact with people because they like their company, and these people help them succeed because they like them.

They are not fake. They do not pretend to like you in the hopes that one day you will get them a job. They do not listen to your small talk in the hopes that you will fund their business idea.

When they talk to you, its because they want to get to know you. They'd never call it networking.

This idea of networking as this task that you do, that you invest effort in, to reap the rewards later, is completely wrong in my opinion. If you treat it like that, successful people who have put the hours in will see through you and they won't like you.

There are many reasons why people become successful, and I think the thing that most of them have in common is good insight into other people. If they think you are "networking", they will realise you aren't geniune and want nothing to do with you.

 

[^^vampire^^]

I would probably have to quote every post in this thread to put my reply across

I think there are some very hit and miss points in this thread but that's because there about a billion different ways someone can be successful and what works for one person may not work for another; it's a combination of hard work, smart work, timing, opportunity and luck. If you ask 1000 successful people how to get their you will get 1000 different answers.

To answer your first question: is SA that bad? Yes, for most people it is terrible. It wasn't AS terrible for me when I was still in SA on a good income and wanting for nothing but it had got to my threshold of what I was willing to put up with on a daily basis. My terrible is different to someone else's terrible but that doesn't make it any less so, for me or others. I once drove through the squatter camp in honeydew and saw people catching and cooking rats on a fire to survive. Now that is both terrible and the reality that many people in SA deal with on the daily that you don't see. There are millions of people without shelter, food, water, healthcare, jobs and more. I have never gone a day without any and so my perception is skewed.

To answer how people become successful: well I don't have the answer and I don't consider myself successful. What I do consider myself is more successful than yesterday, than last year, than a decade ago. I like the saying "the harder I work the luckier I get" because in a sense it's raw truth (and yes working harder includes working smarter ). I've always worked hard/smart at what I do and I don't wait on others to move myself up the ladder so to speak. I haven't sat around at a company to get a promotion, I make my own promotion by moving to where I'm valued and paid what I'm worth. I now earn about 20 times what I did when I started out 12 years ago and that could easily be at the 30x mark if I didn't take the perk of full time work from home.
- It's incremental steps every step of the way. Learn something new that you can monetise when you get the chance. My first job I had nothing in the bank except the few hundred bucks my parents gave me for petrol money. I used to blow all that money every month and basically live paycheck to paycheck. In contrast I now save for retirement, save money every month and all the money my GF earns we save each month too. I'm now in the position that if I lose my job I can go for months without having to worry how I would pay the bills. I remember after about a year of saving in SA in the early years of working I had R10k saved and went to a friends dad for advice on how to invest it. I now save/invest about 5 times that in month.
- I see Ancalagon above states that he hates the whole networking thing and while I was in SA I would have agreed. Moving to Aus though and not knowing a single person forced me to change my perspective. In SA I could move job and increase my salary easily and I can do the same here in Aus, but I've found there is a bit of a ceiling on this thinking and at some point it's hard to progress without having individuals of different skillsets in your corner. I've found that connecting with older saffer expats I can tap into a network of people that have a similar background, similar likes and we have a lot in common and that affords me opportunities you wouldn't get from a common employer-employee relationship. People like to stick together and empower people that are like them and this is how I managed to land my current role and have all my demands met, and ultimately if this project doesn't work out there are already plans to pull me into multiple other businesses at a moments notice. I think the most important thing is that networking is often seen or done incorrectly. I often see younger people in university or who have just started working try to network at networking events, giving their details etc to very experienced people but what they don't understand is networking doesn't help if you cannot be of benefit to someone in a position of power. As a junior developer for instance you don't have the skills, experience or network to add value to some CEOs business. On the flipside if you've been in the industry for 10+ years, know what you're talking about, have experience in the systems a company is trying to build and have a lot of people you know and can vouch for who you can bring in on the project then the people you are networking with gain value from knowing their project is well taken care of without them having to get involved on every level to make sure it works out.
- Take FB/Insta etc with a bag of salt. I don't really, if ever post anything to my FB and don't have any other social media things. My GF does FB etc a lot and it's not that she is trying to create a false narrative but people just don't post their negative **** there. I don't post on FB that my cat shat in the bath again instead of going outside or using the litterbox. But what people could gleem from browsing mine/my GFs social media is that we always eat out at fancy places and are always travelling, even if to local areas/cities and experiencing new places. That could scream being rich but it doesn't cost that much to drive in the car for an hour and have a lunch out on the weekend. Also it is costly here to eat out a lot (usually $60-$100 for 2), but we spend our money on eating out and then I buy my clothes from KMart with an average cost of $10 per item. My friends GF just posted that she dropped $2000 of 8 pairs of shoes. Same friend has just bought (homeloan) a house that cost $1.1 million so by all accounts they're living the dream, but I found out via the grapevine that they are now fighting with the previous owner because the roof leaks badly when it rains and that the previous owner covered this fact up - something they didn't post about on FB.
- You'll find that you probably have a whole array of friends who grew up in different circumstances. Some will get given nice positions based on who their parents know and what education they were provided. Others may have the same education but struggle to land that first job. Some will fly to the top easily, others will never make it. I had a smart friend that had some mental issues who now lives in PE with a kid and as far as I know is being supported by his grandparents. I have a friend whose parent were well off but wound up losing his GF because all he did was play computer games and has only recently started getting his life together. I have a friend who has worked hard, earned 2 masters degrees and now works at a prominent financial institution in England. I have a friend who I was convinced was going to go to jail before reaching 21 but who now lives a "successful" life with a wife and 2 kids on the isle of mann. The major difference between them is those that worked hard got luckier and now live under better circumstances.
- I found reasonable "success" running my own sideline business in SA. It didn't make a heap but it was easy to manage while I was at my full time job and part time which brought in a good few thousand each month. Definitely helped me boost my skills and credentials.
- There is unique opportunity in SA that isn't available everywhere else. Semi skilled/skilled labour is cheap straight off the bat and that can be leveraged to start a business a lot easier than it is in other countries. In Aus for instance you could expect to pony up $50k-$60k a year for a grad developer. Good luck starting out your business covering your salary and theirs and other costs in the first year. It's good to get multiple perspectives as it helps you identify these unique opportunities. I only realised this after emigrating and still consider from time to time opening something in SA. You could literally open anything with a small amount of monthly investment. As an example, grab someone who has no job, offer to pay them a few grand a month and get them to make sandwiches and go from business to business selling them everyday, even better get preorders every day if possible. For R10k a month you could probably have a steady and growing business in SA. Try that in Aus and you won't find anyone working for $1000 a month, nevermind cost of groceries for the sandwiches etc. Now take that premise and you could apply that to many many things.

Ultimately I think success is a relative term. The thing that has keeps me going in a sense is that I don't ever stop. My goal is to reach the next project, next business and next salary bump and when I've achieved that I'm only happy for a small amount of time before the next, bigger goal is set out. If you are not constantly chasing something you become aimless, you tend to wonder with no target to move towards and therefore start becoming irrelevant and obsolete and no longer successful. People are all at different points in there life and no matter whether you are at the very bottom, struggling to even get food or whether your first job is handed to you on a silver platter, if you choose to believe that your circumstances cannot be changed and that you cannot do something every day to make your life more successful you have no chance of being successful at all.

 

[Ancalagon]

To answer your first question: is SA that bad? Yes, for most people it is terrible. It wasn't AS terrible for me when I was still in SA on a good income and wanting for nothing but it had got to my threshold of what I was willing to put up with on a daily basis. My terrible is different to someone else's terrible but that doesn't make it any less so, for me or others. I once drove through the squatter camp in honeydew and saw people catching and cooking rats on a fire to survive. Now that is both terrible and the reality that many people in SA deal with on the daily that you don't see. There are millions of people without shelter, food, water, healthcare, jobs and more. I have never gone a day without any and so my perception is skewed.

Some people have brought this up before, and I dismissed it as irrelevant, but then I realised, you can't have such extreme income inequality for long in a country without things going pear shaped. Now I'm not going to get into WHY there is so much poverty in SA, all I will say is that if you have boeties riding around in BMWs in Camps Bay on one hand and then people eating and cooking rats on another, you have a problem. At the very least, economic growth is going to be limited.

Now we've had the debate about why poverty is so bad in SA so I won't get into that. I just want to point out that it is a problem.

It also is an opportunity in the sense that if you provide employment for people, I'm sure it can be very fulfilling.

 

[Gozado]

Two other factors come to mind, that contribute to at least some sub-groups of people, anywhere in the world, being potentially more successful than they would otherwise have been. I don't think these have been mentioned here, yet: Being multicultural, and taking a decision for a phase.

Of course, especially first- and second-generation immigrants live in a cultural mix, in their heads and hearts. But it is also true in countries (of which South Africa is one) in which many people grow up with an awareness (and increasing expereince) that someone else would probably approach any particular task differently.

I think that moving countries or cultures puts one, per se, in the mind-set of being prepared to change something about one's lifestyle and one's approach. (Or at least, those who don't make that mental transition become whingers who make themselves miserable and bore everyone else with their whenwe tales.) Having a double (or more) perspective enables one to overlap cultures, so as to live out the best of both.

That's what makes some families or groups of friends able to work hard, live in cramped premises, and focus on getting one family member an education, then that one works while the next gets their education, and so on. But not indefinitely. It's what makes people willing (even if not financially desperate) to live in a tent or van for a year to save up a greater down-payment for a house.

About returning to S.A.: those who've lived outside and experienced what was described above, for example, about much smaller homes, already know how to do this, and if they returned to S.A. and would continue to restrict themselves, so as to keep their costs lower, they'd be more likely to be able to build up some other project.

As to networking, I think there is something to be said for doing the work of connecting, so as to find out whom to ask, and who does a job properly. That work can save money and stress. There's also something to be said for barter, in the right context. While work done should be paid for, it doesn't have to be in money, and can be in other services. Similarly for goods: those people who have gotten their heads around responsible borrowing, lending, and buying second-hand, (or simply buying less, altogether, and making do with what they have) can save a lot on their spending.

Of course, it's possible to start combining, from where one already is. As I've been reading this thread, I've come up with many examples of people I know who've taken a conscious decision towards specific action, for a phase (possibly quite a difficult phase) which involved cutting back on some aspects of their expenditure fairly radically, and/or working extra hard to generate an extra income, so as to free up resources later, for other things, to put towards their next step towards "success", whatever that is, for them.

 

[Bassist]

@Bassist

I kinda don't know what your whole vibe is with this. Like, sorry if I haven't read the thread, but what's your point?

Is it that, if you have certain characteristics, you can be successful no matter which country you're in? Yeah, probably true.

Yes. But I don't think I'd want to be successful in Antarctica, would you?

A lot of the most important criteria for success can be learned by the way. You just have to put the time in.

Many people flee SA without bothering. It is this phenomenon that I'm intrigued by.

Are you trying to convince yourself to move back to SA? Sure, go ahead.

I want to ensure I am able to try and attain all of the success factors that those that remain in SA, have, before deciding to come back. Others might find value from this too (others that are still in SA and considering leaving), hence I posted this thread here.

Money can buy you a lot, especially in Africa. But if the government implements NHI, it won't be able to buy you healthcare. That is actually my biggest worry. Your success then has no value in getting you the healthcare you need. You could be the most main alpha boet every wearing Ralph Lauren Polo shirts every day and smashing two hot blonde belters at the same time, but if your liver packs up, you've had it. You have to fly to Robert Mugabe's clinic in Singapore and hope they can sort you out.

Government would have to physically shut down all private practices and hospitals. I don't see that happening. How would they do that? Essentially they would have to declare a set of businesses illegal. Many of their voter base works at these private practices and hospitals. They would revolt - something the ANC doesn't want.

South African private health care is some of the best in the world.

It is better than many public health care systems in many first-world European countries, I can definately tell you that. I've had personal experience.

Second point is you've talked a lot about success but not about happiness. Happiness is worth reading up about - for that you need philosophy. I recommend stoic philosophy - the works of Seneca are particularly good, and Buddhist philosophy has some nice overlaps.
Because you have to accept that the best planned life will not make you happy, that bad things can still happen.

Yeah but this can go either way in terms of staying on in SA or leaving. It is not deterministic in figuring out what to do to stay in SA and be successful. It is more of a philosophy you can take with you and apply, regardless where you are in the world. This thread is much more practical: what to do to stay in SA as your home country and be sucecssful.

 

[Bassist]

Elon Musk and his brother slept and work for the same room for something like a year or two until they made it. In other words, they didn't go home to sleep after a long day of work. They worked until they were too tired and then they slept in sleeping bags.

Elon Musk had parents already in North America so it was far, far easier for him to move there and kick off his career aspirations.

JK Rowling was a single mother on benefits and the publisher told her that she shouldn't quit her day job (she didn't have one) because she wasn't likely to make it.

After reading more information about her, I've taken my table and marked the items below, that lead to her success despite all her hardships.

Here is the updated table of characteristics likely applicable to author J.K. Rowling:

Characteristic	How was it applicable?
1. friendly, positive, charismatic	She was headgirl at her school which proves this. She had leadership skills and could enhance them even further while being headgirl.
2. resourceful, outgoing, helpful, innovative	Worked at charity organisations. Also went to go study in Paris for a while.
3. physically attractive	Doesn't look that bad to me?
4. young	Started being successful when she was 32. Not even that young anymore. And more or less the age when Saffers start thinking about jumping ship.
5. knows many friends, have a huge support network, both career-wise and private/social	Won't have been elected headgirl if she didn't have friends at school. Thus she knows how to be successful social-wise. Also had a boyfriend from a young age.
9. strong mental energy. "Get up and go" attitude	Clearly she did not give up despite all the setbacks.
10. travel a lot, even if on a tight budget	Travelled to Paris and Scotland for study.

 

[Bassist]

It looks as though your definition of successful, includes being one paycheck away from homelessness, one baby away from financial devastation, one illness away from utter misery, one economic crisis away from being trapped, and 5 years away from becoming an undesirable 3rd wheel by actual successful friends.

Make sure you don't lose your job, by aligning yourself to be indispendable in your company and what you do.
Don't make children if you are not yet financially stable.
Eat and live healthy so that you are not prone to increasing illnesses.
Work in an industry that is least affected by any particular economic crisis. A friend of mine did freelance marketing for Zoom. He is making a killing now.
Keep up the success with your friends to avoid becoming the 3rd wheel. Better even, lead the success of your friends circle, so that if anyone, one of them would become the 3rd wheel. Lead, don't follow.

So like @Ancalagon I'm a little confused about your actual point - it's like you're saying that because there exists a bunch of people in SA who skate on the edge of disaster, yet seem unphased by it, it may be better to move back to SA and become one of them?

They are not skating on the edge of disaster, thereby your whole phrased question is moot.

 

[Bassist]

How old are you?

Older than 30 but younger than 50.

Anyway, I hate to nitpick, but I hate this idea of networking.

I know a few successful people. By successful, I mean able to stop working tomorrow because they actually don't need the money. Really successful people. People who have done stuff, started businesses, written books, that sort of thing.

None of them treat networking like it is this thing that is going to bring them success. They interact with people because they like their company, and these people help them succeed because they like them.

They are not fake. They do not pretend to like you in the hopes that one day you will get them a job. They do not listen to your small talk in the hopes that you will fund their business idea.

When they talk to you, its because they want to get to know you. They'd never call it networking.

This idea of networking as this task that you do, that you invest effort in, to reap the rewards later, is completely wrong in my opinion. If you treat it like that, successful people who have put the hours in will see through you and they won't like you.

There are many reasons why people become successful, and I think the thing that most of them have in common is good insight into other people. If they think you are "networking", they will realise you aren't geniune and want nothing to do with you.

You are tying a negative connotation to networking which I did not imply.
Maybe networking is the wrong term, but they way you describe how it is done by those successful people you know, is the same what I mean as well.
And, by the way, it is just one of the characteristics I have identified. It is by no means the only one, and it is also by no means a non-negotiable characteristic that must be present, in order for all of the other characteristics to work.

 

[Jet-Fighter7700]

don't forget luck in all the above,
what separates somebody like Charlize Theron from every Kwaito star that buys an Audi?
Charlize was at the right place and time to be noticed throwing a tantrum in a Bank.

same to can many other people who were in the right place and time to capitalize on something that happened.

@Bassist, I take it you've read, think and grow rich, by napoleon Hill?
some don't believe in the secret, some do, and others like myself, have yet to discover it.

 

[maumau]

Make sure you don't lose your job, by aligning yourself to be indispendable in your company and what you do.
Don't make children if you are not yet financially stable.
Eat and live healthy so that you are not prone to increasing illnesses.
Work in an industry that is least affected by any particular economic crisis. A friend of mine did freelance marketing for Zoom. He is making a killing now.
Keep up the success with your friends to avoid becoming the 3rd wheel. Better even, lead the success of your friends circle, so that if anyone, one of them would become the 3rd wheel. Lead, don't follow.


They are not skating on the edge of disaster, thereby your whole phrased question is moot.

Your second point is wrong
Don't make children if you are not yet financially stable in South Africa.

 

[Bassist]

I would probably have to quote every post in this thread to put my reply across

I think there are some very hit and miss points in this thread but that's because there about a billion different ways someone can be successful and what works for one person may not work for another; it's a combination of hard work, smart work, timing, opportunity and luck. If you ask 1000 successful people how to get their you will get 1000 different answers.

To answer your first question: is SA that bad? Yes, for most people it is terrible. It wasn't AS terrible for me when I was still in SA on a good income and wanting for nothing but it had got to my threshold of what I was willing to put up with on a daily basis. My terrible is different to someone else's terrible but that doesn't make it any less so, for me or others. I once drove through the squatter camp in honeydew and saw people catching and cooking rats on a fire to survive. Now that is both terrible and the reality that many people in SA deal with on the daily that you don't see. There are millions of people without shelter, food, water, healthcare, jobs and more. I have never gone a day without any and so my perception is skewed.

To answer how people become successful: well I don't have the answer and I don't consider myself successful. What I do consider myself is more successful than yesterday, than last year, than a decade ago. I like the saying "the harder I work the luckier I get" because in a sense it's raw truth (and yes working harder includes working smarter ). I've always worked hard/smart at what I do and I don't wait on others to move myself up the ladder so to speak. I haven't sat around at a company to get a promotion, I make my own promotion by moving to where I'm valued and paid what I'm worth. I now earn about 20 times what I did when I started out 12 years ago and that could easily be at the 30x mark if I didn't take the perk of full time work from home.
- It's incremental steps every step of the way. Learn something new that you can monetise when you get the chance. My first job I had nothing in the bank except the few hundred bucks my parents gave me for petrol money. I used to blow all that money every month and basically live paycheck to paycheck. In contrast I now save for retirement, save money every month and all the money my GF earns we save each month too. I'm now in the position that if I lose my job I can go for months without having to worry how I would pay the bills. I remember after about a year of saving in SA in the early years of working I had R10k saved and went to a friends dad for advice on how to invest it. I now save/invest about 5 times that in month.
- I see Ancalagon above states that he hates the whole networking thing and while I was in SA I would have agreed. Moving to Aus though and not knowing a single person forced me to change my perspective. In SA I could move job and increase my salary easily and I can do the same here in Aus, but I've found there is a bit of a ceiling on this thinking and at some point it's hard to progress without having individuals of different skillsets in your corner. I've found that connecting with older saffer expats I can tap into a network of people that have a similar background, similar likes and we have a lot in common and that affords me opportunities you wouldn't get from a common employer-employee relationship. People like to stick together and empower people that are like them and this is how I managed to land my current role and have all my demands met, and ultimately if this project doesn't work out there are already plans to pull me into multiple other businesses at a moments notice. I think the most important thing is that networking is often seen or done incorrectly. I often see younger people in university or who have just started working try to network at networking events, giving their details etc to very experienced people but what they don't understand is networking doesn't help if you cannot be of benefit to someone in a position of power. As a junior developer for instance you don't have the skills, experience or network to add value to some CEOs business. On the flipside if you've been in the industry for 10+ years, know what you're talking about, have experience in the systems a company is trying to build and have a lot of people you know and can vouch for who you can bring in on the project then the people you are networking with gain value from knowing their project is well taken care of without them having to get involved on every level to make sure it works out.
- Take FB/Insta etc with a bag of salt. I don't really, if ever post anything to my FB and don't have any other social media things. My GF does FB etc a lot and it's not that she is trying to create a false narrative but people just don't post their negative **** there. I don't post on FB that my cat shat in the bath again instead of going outside or using the litterbox. But what people could gleem from browsing mine/my GFs social media is that we always eat out at fancy places and are always travelling, even if to local areas/cities and experiencing new places. That could scream being rich but it doesn't cost that much to drive in the car for an hour and have a lunch out on the weekend. Also it is costly here to eat out a lot (usually $60-$100 for 2), but we spend our money on eating out and then I buy my clothes from KMart with an average cost of $10 per item. My friends GF just posted that she dropped $2000 of 8 pairs of shoes. Same friend has just bought (homeloan) a house that cost $1.1 million so by all accounts they're living the dream, but I found out via the grapevine that they are now fighting with the previous owner because the roof leaks badly when it rains and that the previous owner covered this fact up - something they didn't post about on FB.
- You'll find that you probably have a whole array of friends who grew up in different circumstances. Some will get given nice positions based on who their parents know and what education they were provided. Others may have the same education but struggle to land that first job. Some will fly to the top easily, others will never make it. I had a smart friend that had some mental issues who now lives in PE with a kid and as far as I know is being supported by his grandparents. I have a friend whose parent were well off but wound up losing his GF because all he did was play computer games and has only recently started getting his life together. I have a friend who has worked hard, earned 2 masters degrees and now works at a prominent financial institution in England. I have a friend who I was convinced was going to go to jail before reaching 21 but who now lives a "successful" life with a wife and 2 kids on the isle of mann. The major difference between them is those that worked hard got luckier and now live under better circumstances.
- I found reasonable "success" running my own sideline business in SA. It didn't make a heap but it was easy to manage while I was at my full time job and part time which brought in a good few thousand each month. Definitely helped me boost my skills and credentials.
- There is unique opportunity in SA that isn't available everywhere else. Semi skilled/skilled labour is cheap straight off the bat and that can be leveraged to start a business a lot easier than it is in other countries. In Aus for instance you could expect to pony up $50k-$60k a year for a grad developer. Good luck starting out your business covering your salary and theirs and other costs in the first year. It's good to get multiple perspectives as it helps you identify these unique opportunities. I only realised this after emigrating and still consider from time to time opening something in SA. You could literally open anything with a small amount of monthly investment. As an example, grab someone who has no job, offer to pay them a few grand a month and get them to make sandwiches and go from business to business selling them everyday, even better get preorders every day if possible. For R10k a month you could probably have a steady and growing business in SA. Try that in Aus and you won't find anyone working for $1000 a month, nevermind cost of groceries for the sandwiches etc. Now take that premise and you could apply that to many many things.

Ultimately I think success is a relative term. The thing that has keeps me going in a sense is that I don't ever stop. My goal is to reach the next project, next business and next salary bump and when I've achieved that I'm only happy for a small amount of time before the next, bigger goal is set out. If you are not constantly chasing something you become aimless, you tend to wonder with no target to move towards and therefore start becoming irrelevant and obsolete and no longer successful. People are all at different points in there life and no matter whether you are at the very bottom, struggling to even get food or whether your first job is handed to you on a silver platter, if you choose to believe that your circumstances cannot be changed and that you cannot do something every day to make your life more successful you have no chance of being successful at all.

Very long post but very good and insightful. I can only applaud you - it speaks to my point very closely.

People freak out and want to leave SA. Or at the very least, they complain all the time. SA has opportunities, like the ones you mention or also the ones that are more inofficial. A person that's dynamic, open to change and have some of the characteristics I listed, will be successful.

 

[Bassist]

Some people have brought this up before, and I dismissed it as irrelevant, but then I realised, you can't have such extreme income inequality for long in a country without things going pear shaped. Now I'm not going to get into WHY there is so much poverty in SA, all I will say is that if you have boeties riding around in BMWs in Camps Bay on one hand and then people eating and cooking rats on another, you have a problem. At the very least, economic growth is going to be limited.

Now we've had the debate about why poverty is so bad in SA so I won't get into that. I just want to point out that it is a problem.

It also is an opportunity in the sense that if you provide employment for people, I'm sure it can be very fulfilling.

Yes. Point it, you are using current circumstances to better your own situation and if you can help other people who need employement, even the better.

 

[Bassist]

Two other factors come to mind, that contribute to at least some sub-groups of people, anywhere in the world, being potentially more successful than they would otherwise have been. I don't think these have been mentioned here, yet: Being multicultural, and taking a decision for a phase.

Of course, especially first- and second-generation immigrants live in a cultural mix, in their heads and hearts. But it is also true in countries (of which South Africa is one) in which many people grow up with an awareness (and increasing expereince) that someone else would probably approach any particular task differently.

I think that moving countries or cultures puts one, per se, in the mind-set of being prepared to change something about one's lifestyle and one's approach. (Or at least, those who don't make that mental transition become whingers who make themselves miserable and bore everyone else with their whenwe tales.) Having a double (or more) perspective enables one to overlap cultures, so as to live out the best of both.

That's what makes some families or groups of friends able to work hard, live in cramped premises, and focus on getting one family member an education, then that one works while the next gets their education, and so on. But not indefinitely. It's what makes people willing (even if not financially desperate) to live in a tent or van for a year to save up a greater down-payment for a house.

About returning to S.A.: those who've lived outside and experienced what was described above, for example, about much smaller homes, already know how to do this, and if they returned to S.A. and would continue to restrict themselves, so as to keep their costs lower, they'd be more likely to be able to build up some other project.

As to networking, I think there is something to be said for doing the work of connecting, so as to find out whom to ask, and who does a job properly. That work can save money and stress. There's also something to be said for barter, in the right context. While work done should be paid for, it doesn't have to be in money, and can be in other services. Similarly for goods: those people who have gotten their heads around responsible borrowing, lending, and buying second-hand, (or simply buying less, altogether, and making do with what they have) can save a lot on their spending.

Of course, it's possible to start combining, from where one already is. As I've been reading this thread, I've come up with many examples of people I know who've taken a conscious decision towards specific action, for a phase (possibly quite a difficult phase) which involved cutting back on some aspects of their expenditure fairly radically, and/or working extra hard to generate an extra income, so as to free up resources later, for other things, to put towards their next step towards "success", whatever that is, for them.

Excellent post and worthwhile reading. I also think that reaping the rewards of having the right attitude in SA, and being successful, is significant. We have a lifestyle in SA (in several specific aspects) that is much, much harder to match in many first world countries Saffers tend to emigrate to.

Expressed in other words: if you are able to be successful in SA, you might be able to pull yourself out of the mud and dirt that your life has landed in (for whatever reasons). Even if you are only able to enjoy some cheap wine in your small backyard once a week, with your face in the sun (and not necessarily stuffing your face with gourmet burgers and craft beer in Kloof street).

 

[Bassist]

don't forget luck in all the above,
what separates somebody like Charlize Theron from every Kwaito star that buys an Audi?
Charlize was at the right place and time to be noticed throwing a tantrum in a Bank.

Not so sure about luck as a distinguishing factor that would make it relevant for a person in SA vs a person in any other country.
Luck (or bad luck) can befall you regardless of where you are in the world.
Added to boot, my table of characteristics list "luck" as a factor in very few of them (I considered it under "lily pond upbringing"). Also, to be positive, innovative and hard-working, and friendly, has nothing to do with luck. It is a mindset and attitude that YOU decide to to set yourself to (or not to).