Article: 'Why I am marching today'

[Sinbad]

Not as easy as that. Performance contracts require long periods of performance management etc etc etc - all of which takes productive time away from management of the company. Contract or not you still can't just fire someone for non-performance.

 

[Albereth]

This happens at a lot of companies, and in particular the state owned ones. Consultants would have looked at the business and would have defined a structure and skill requirement to do the work. Pretty much all of the state 'companies' have posts. Having posts is a necessary thing as we have had far too many situations where there have been ghost employees.

Then reality hits the structure - we don't always have exactly the right level of competency in the workforce and this creates inefficiency. Or things change in terms of work load.

The way things should happen is that the incompetents get fired, or we hire more people to cope with the increased work load.

Firing someone isn't the easiest of tasks, especially if they belong to the party. And hiring more people means a change in the posts and that means more work for someone.

Labour brokers provide a pool of resources that do not add to the headcount. It makes it 'easier' to engage.

Doing away with ALL labour brokers is a stupid notion as clearly there is a genuine need for them. Getting rid of some of them needs to work hand in hand with the ability for companies to get rid of the incompetent and to be able to adjust its workforce due to fluctuations in labour demand.

 

[Jweb_@@]

All you guys see is the money, being a permanent employee will not increase their salary by much, the fact that someone has gone out and foud a place for them to work must count for something?

Why I use labor brokers:

1. I have a small consulting firm and I dont have time to perform all the HR functions. I get billed once a month by the labor broker and I pay them happily.
2. Employing guys on a permanent basis is risky because I might not have work for them after a few months
3. If I get someone that says he/she can do xyz but cant I phone the broker and tell him to GTFO and take his placement with. I cannot afford to sit with an employee that cannot do the job.
4. Since I am still new with the whole running a business thing I dont know much about UIF, workmans compensation etc. I need to focus on getting my business running.
5. It happens quite often that I only need a specific skill for a few weeks, should I employ someone and then retrench him afterward?

Lets be honest, banning labor brokers will do more harm to SME's than you think.

The argument of "I could earn x% more if I was a perm" does not hold water. I will not pay a permanent employee the same salary as the amount I am paying the broker. I pay a premium for the advantages listed above. Yes I can offer him/her a few ZARS more than what he would earn under the labor broker, but in the long run it would cost me a lot more.

This is why an outright ban is not an option. I can see the value you get from using a LB. Using their services for SHORT term projects. I never thought about UIF and workmans compensation though. Good point.

 

[_Jakes_]

Not as easy as that. Performance contracts require long periods of performance management etc etc etc - all of which takes productive time away from management of the company. Contract or not you still can't just fire someone for non-performance.

So do you really think your company can not fire you if you do not perform?

It does not take long periods of performance management, list Key performance targets, manager and employee agrees and signs contract, if employee does not perform place employee on probation and then fire. The CCMA will not penalise a company when the correct procedures are followed. Performance management does not need to take more than a hour or two a year.

 

[karnuffel]

So do you really think your company can not fire you if you do not perform?

It does not take long periods of performance management, list Key performance targets, manager and employee agrees and signs contract, if employee does not perform place employee on probation and then fire. The CCMA will not penalise a company when the correct procedures are followed. Performance management does not need to take more than a hour or two a year.

Uhmm have you had any dealings with the CCMA recently? As a small business owner I do not have the skills to handle these guys, thus I need to get someone in that knows labor law. Trust me Ive seen the process of firing someone for not performing, it took months and a lot of nasty fighting. I want to run a business, not sit in an office meeting the guys from the CCMA.

 

[Jweb_@@]

They got the job for him.

No, they facilitated the process.

 

[Jweb_@@]

This happens at a lot of companies, and in particular the state owned ones. Consultants would have looked at the business and would have defined a structure and skill requirement to do the work. Pretty much all of the state 'companies' have posts. Having posts is a necessary thing as we have had far too many situations where there have been ghost employees.

I think the danger with state owned companies is that this process can easily be abused for personal enrichment.

 

[_Jakes_]

Uhmm have you had any dealings with the CCMA recently? As a small business owner I do not have the skills to handle these guys, thus I need to get someone in that knows labor law. Trust me Ive seen the process of firing someone for not performing, it took months and a lot of nasty fighting. I want to run a business, not sit in an office meeting the guys from the CCMA.

As a small business owner it is of the utmost importance that you know the basics of the labour law in order to prevent disputes. The labour law is all about procedural fairness, as long your reason for dismissal is fair and you follow the correct procedures then you should never get into trouble for dismissing someone. The problem is people do not take the time to learn the basic of the labour law.

A couple of reasons that allow you to legally fire someone:

Gross dishonesty,

Wilful damage to property,

Wilful endangering of the safety of others,

Assault and fighting,

Gross insubordination,

Insolence,

Insubordination,

Sexual harassment,

Abusive language,

Intoxication on duty,

Time related offences,

Collective absenteeism.

Non Performance.

you can even make up your own rules as long as everyone knows them, they should be reasonable, Fair and should be consistently applied to everyone.

 

[karnuffel]

As a small business owner it is of the utmost importance that you know the basics of the labour law in order to prevent disputes. The labour law is all about procedural fairness, as long your reason for dismissal is fair and you follow the correct procedures then you should never get into trouble for dismissing someone. The problem is people do not take the time to learn the basic of the labour law.

A fair comment, the basics "aint gonna cut" it when it comes to dealing with unions and the CCMA IMHO. I am trying to get a business running. I do not have the time to waste. As my business grows I guess Ill have to educate myself more.

 

[MR V]

So government should just continue what they plan and regulate labour brokers - simple as that.

 

[_Jakes_]

A fair comment, the basics "aint gonna cut" it when it comes to dealing with unions and the CCMA IMHO. I am trying to get a business running. I do not have the time to waste. As my business grows I guess Ill have to educate myself more.

Part of running a business anywhere in the world involves knowing and obeying local laws and customs. If you choose to ignore or not familiarise yourself with it you will always get into trouble.

 

[Sinbad]

Part of running a business anywhere in the world involves knowing and obeying local laws and customs. If you choose to ignore or not familiarise yourself with it you will always get into trouble.

Hence, using a service that takes care of that for you. Not everyone can be an expert at every field.

 

[karnuffel]

Part of running a business anywhere in the world involves knowing and obeying local laws and customs. If you choose to ignore or not familiarise yourself with it you will always get into trouble.

true, but again, the basics is not enough when you go and sit around a table at the CCMA.

 

[TJ99]

Are labour brokers that exploitative? Did Justice exaggerate or is what is happening to him normal?

Yes, some of them are. Blame your communist buddies for allowing them to thrive. If the ridiculous labour laws that protect the lazy/unproductive and allows workers to hold their employers at ransom weren't there, if people could be hired and fired easily, there would be no need for labour brokers.

 

[_Jakes_]

Hence, using a service that takes care of that for you. Not everyone can be an expert at every field.

true, but again, the basics is not enough when you go and sit around a table at the CCMA.

Fair enough but just make sure that the labour broker that you use is not exploiting the people that you depend on to make your company a success.

 

[Ou grote]

No, they facilitated the process.

U a trainee spindoctor for the ancyl by any chance?

 

[Sinbad]

Fair enough but just make sure that the labour broker that you use is not exploiting the people that you depend on to make your company a success.

Of course.
But banning labour brokers would put you in a difficult situation as a small employer, or someone who takes on project work. This would have a negative impact on the economy, end of story.

The correct approach should be to regulate and police them. They provide a valuable service, and SOME of them engage in abusive practices. So do we ban cars because Gareth Cliff was speeding?

 

[Jweb_@@]

U a trainee spindoctor for the ancyl by any chance?

Would it make a difference if I were?
Play the ball, not the man.

 

[Ou grote]

Would it make a difference if I were?
Play the ball, not the man.

Yes it would, as it would be a waste of time talking to anyone that was indoctrinated.

 

[friedpiggy]

Ok I am now ggetting annoyed with everybody claiming that xyz is the same as slavery. First the church says it about gay marriage and now these muppets say it about labour brokers. Tell you what, here is a test for you.

1) do you get paid?
2) are you forced against your will to work through a labour broker?

If you get paid then it is not slavery as slavery is indentured labour where you have no payment.
If you have a choice about doing it or not hten its not slavery.

Think its about damn time somebody buys cosatu a dictionary.