Bandwidth theft - procedure and contacts to solve

[Megafreak]

Megafreak, did you check that these "cops" were real cops?

Well, one of the 8 that arrived here did show us his Police I.D and the search warrant...but here's the thing, the search warrant was signed in the magisterial district of pretoria; not where we live..could this make any difference in claiming our stuff back?

I'm intrigued - under what law are they charging you?

The are charging us under:
"The contradicting of Section 86 (1) and (2) of the Electronic Communications and Transactions Act 2002 (Act 25 of 2002)"

Where we have unlawfully "Connected to the internet by using Mrs xxxxxx xxxxxxxxx xxxxxxx's user name without her consent"


The absolute only lead we have on this is the fact that I recall being home alone on about Mid-August when a Telkom techie came in to our grounds, stopping at the front door, and asked if he could please go around the back of our garden to work on the telephone pole. We had never lodged a complaint with Telkom during this month and the pole isn't even on our property, but in our neighbours property. I said yes, and phoned to inform my dad about this guy being on the grounds.
He was working out there for about 1 and a half hours before he was done.
I don't know if its possible, but could he have been up to some false activity? such as connecting a laptop of his up there and using the line or something like that?

I know it sound really stupid, but we are really desperate

For now I will check out the port number of our ADSL line and compare the 2.

Thanks for the Advice

 

[Megafreak]

Megafreak, You dont maybe have a Wireless router do you? Is your security set up properly? Are you tech-savvy in any way?

I know a bit about PC's/routers etc, and I do know that we do have the marconi Premium Combo router and the wireless is enabled, but we don't use it seeming we don't have wireless network cards.

The routers firewall was disabled though, mostly cause I had problems using it with some online games and P2P applications.
The default username/password was changed though.

 

[ardee]

How do you find out what your ADSL line's port number is? When my isp is Helkom?

 

[ld13]

I know a bit about PC's/routers etc, and I do know that we do have the marconi Premium Combo router and the wireless is enabled, but we don't use it seeming we don't have wireless network cards.

Lol. I see the problem. Do you? But WHY I ask you, WHY did you not disable it? Don't you see the Obvious security risk here?

How do you find out what your ADSL line's port number is? When my isp is Helkom?

I'm not on Telkom, so I Don't have a clue. Anyone?

 

[Megafreak]

I suppose that was a bit of a stupid thing to do..but we honestly thought no harm, seeming its wireless doesnt work too well..giving only about 15% signal when 3 metres away from it.

hmm..so if someone happened to do this off our line in this manner, that would mean they would have to be sitting right outside? or in close vacinity

 

[ld13]

hmm..so if someone happened to do this off our line in this manner, that would mean they would have to be sitting right outside? or in close vacinity

Not necessarily no, but they would need to be close – All depending on where your router is situated etc etc. I’m not saying that this is the way it happened though. Could be that Telkom techie, but according to the police the usage was over a few days?

You need to turn on your Router’s firewall. Also, when last did you run a virus scan on your pc(s)?

 

[Megafreak]

Not necessarily no, but they would need to be close – All depending on where your router is situated etc etc. I’m not saying that this is the way it happened though. Could be that Telkom techie, but according to the police the usage was over a few days?

You need to turn on your Router’s firewall. Also, when last did you run a virus scan on your pc(s)?

I Had just reinstalled and formatted the entire PC a few days before; will turn on routers firewall again as soon as I can.

Also another thing...if i could get this victims phone number, do you think it would be wise to speak to them and tell them the situation, hoping they will drop charges, or would it just make things worse?

Thanks very much for all the advice..
Really appreciated

 

[ld13]

If you could get your granddad or someone that does not know a thing of computers to call, yes maybe it could work (Not recommended though). But I don’t know how this would look like from a legal perspective as I'm clueless in that division.

I would go to court, and hand the judge that wireless router of yours.....exactly as it is now. Then I would go home.

 

[The_Unbeliever]

Also another thing...if i could get this victims phone number, do you think it would be wise to speak to them and tell them the situation, hoping they will drop charges, or would it just make things worse?

Do not, under any circumstances, call the victim directly.

Rather ask a lawyer (after explaining the situation to the lawyer + proof) to phone the victim and explain things in a friendly manner, and not to threaten at all.

Also have the lawyer ask said person if the person's willing to have a month's bandwidth in payment as goodwill gesture towards having the charge dropped.

good luck

Libs

 

[zamrg]

As it stands, it's a statutory crime and as such, the case is against the state and the victim will only be called in should the case require them to act as witnesses. If the victim wishes to be compensated for the stolen bandwidth, they will be able to file civil charges against you and in that case, you would be able to plea bargain outside of court before presenting the case before a magistrate/judge.

If you're innocent, you should try and fight the charges in court, regardless of the costs involved in travelling between Johannesburg and Cape Town. I would do absolutely everything I can to prevent a record of criminal charges.

I would recommend that you seek legal advice, as I'm not sure if any bandwidth theft case has made it into court before in South Africa. An attourney would be able to evaluate your situation and give you the best advice.

 

[PostmanPot]

Do not, under any circumstances, call the victim directly.

Rather ask a lawyer (after explaining the situation to the lawyer + proof) to phone the victim and explain things in a friendly manner, and not to threaten at all.

Also have the lawyer ask said person if the person's willing to have a month's bandwidth in payment as goodwill gesture towards having the charge dropped.

good luck

Libs

I don't think this is possible.

The cops nail you under Section xxx what ever for contravention of the Electronic Communications Act.

 

[mono2]

I have had a call from Telkom recently that someone was using company XYZ's account off my line. I found this call very strange he said he was from Telkom and that his clients account had been used on my line, he wanted to know if i know anyone at company XYZ which i just find totally weird they calling and giving you the victims name. We have 4 lines here and the adsl is a fax line he called on one of the other lines asking me if this line belongs to address XYZ and this and this place. Why would he need to call and ask such things if he is from Telkom where he sees all my details on his database? So after I told him I have my own account he continued to explain how more than one session can be run on a line etc etc. Then he just said ok thank you and ended the call... This guy was not the typical telkom idiot you'd expect but infact very well spoken and he knew exactly what he was talking about.

From what ive read here, it seems these guys arent giving people much choice pay admission of guilt fine or go to court. They would have to actually lay a charge against you first. If you are living in JHB and the crime occured in JHB then you will have to attend court in your local magistrate. Seems that people just pay the fines to get their computers back instead of attending court.

Now what I dont understand is our Law is still a baby when it comes to dealing with cyber-crime and lets say you did go to court how would they go about proving that you used that account? What if you run a big office or internetcafe where there are many people that could have been using a stolen account on your network, what if you dont know anything about wifi security and your telkom supplied modem is open (as I write this i can connect to someones open modem in the complex and use it freely) I could be using a stolen account on his line and the police would arrive at his house with a search warrant?

This seems to be a pretty dark area of law about what would actually happen. But in SA no one wants to go to court as they cant afford it and its not worth the trouble.

On the topic of the admission of guilt fine, this is the same as a speeding fine when you go to the metro police and pay that fine buy paying you admit that you are guilty of speeding and pay as punishment of this offence. If you felt you werent speeding you would then contest this in court. This is the same with the "Admission of guilt" for contravening this electronic communications act. The state sees this as a petty crime and its already too back logged in cases that it would prefer you to pay the fine and save on court time, they also do this because if you were convicted in court of this offence you would probably be fined the same amount as the admission of guilt fine amount. Yes this is a criminal record but by no means does it have the same gravity as being convicted of assault or armed robbery. Because then we you went and applied for a job we'd all have to tick the "i have a criminal record" check box for all the speeding fines we have paid.

Its very easy for telkom to fix this problem by forcing their vendors to release patches to close the open access to routers and forcing the username and password to be valid for one login only and then the user would need to change it. Its not difficult, by why doesnt Telkom do so? Because they make money out of people who have had their accounts compromised.. people who dont understand that you get only a certain amount of traffic u can do in a month just use it, it stops working you call telkom and they tell you that you have been capped, so you are a small business owner that needs access for email and voip now your business is it a stand still so, you ask what you can do, and they say here by another gig from us makes telkom all too happy.

Yes I do blame Telkom and the government fat cats for why this is happening.

 

[Superman]

Ye guys , Just a word of warning... If u are using hacked accounts I suggest an immediate stop to it... I know quite a few people are using that read this topic... So just a heads up..
Delete all records of evidence by going beyond a format .. They pitch up randomly at your house... Ive learnt my lesson.. Learn from me before its to late..

Peace out!

 

[skyevision]

Bandwidth Theft

The company we get our ADSL from has a feature where they automatically lockdown your account as soon as you've activated it on your line. If you try to use that username and password ANYWHERE else it will simply not work. A very nice feature and atleast I know my bandwidth is safe! They will also bill you per 100MB overusage and not 1Gb like other ISP's!

PM me if you want more details, I would gladly recommend them!

 

[Megafreak]

Hi Guys

Once again the Cape Town Police Showed up at my front door to tell us that we had once again been charged for "Internet Fraudulent Activities" a.k.a. bandwidth theft.

This is once again a very frustrating matter to myself and my family as we Did NOT!! do anything like this as I have mentioned in previous posts in this thread.

This charge was laid about 1 month after the previous charge that was investigated last year October/November.

It's sad to say that we ended up paying the admission of guilt fine for the previous charge as we just couldn't afford to take the matter further
We are still unsure however if one of my parents ended up with a Criminal Record or not, but what I can say is that even after paying this fine of R1500, We Did not get our hard drives back, and still have not got them back to date

Anyway, 2 investigators arrived here, telling us about the situation, and they were astounded to hear that we hadn't got our hard drives back in the previous case.

They have given us another fine to pay of R500, in which we have no choice of action but to pay it, as we had already admitted guilt in the previous case, and that was paid after this charge was laid.

The most interesting matter that arose in our conversation with the cops, is that they told us, and confirmed over phone, that one does not receive a criminal record for this type of offense yet, and it is merely like paying a "Speed Fine" They then told us that the fact that when they took fingerprints in the previous case was not necessary at all.

They also spoke of a trend that most of this bandwidth theft is happening between Cape Town and Johannesburg, with only 1 or 2 cases in other areas compared to the 50+ cases in Johannesburg. Many "Children" are apparently committing this offense without knowing what they are doing, as it is something they learn about at a "LAN" or through friends who are into computers etc.

Well, all in all, after speaking to the head of this investigation, she told us that this was the last charged laid against us as far as she could see, and I really hope it stays that way.

 

[kevinswan007]

Hi Guys

Once again the Cape Town Police Showed up at my front door to tell us that we had once again been charged for "Internet Fraudulent Activities" a.k.a. bandwidth theft.

This is once again a very frustrating matter to myself and my family as we Did NOT!! do anything like this as I have mentioned in previous posts in this thread.

This charge was laid about 1 month after the previous charge that was investigated last year October/November.

It's sad to say that we ended up paying the admission of guilt fine for the previous charge as we just couldn't afford to take the matter further
We are still unsure however if one of my parents ended up with a Criminal Record or not, but what I can say is that even after paying this fine of R1500, We Did not get our hard drives back, and still have not got them back to date

Anyway, 2 investigators arrived here, telling us about the situation, and they were astounded to hear that we hadn't got our hard drives back in the previous case.

They have given us another fine to pay of R500, in which we have no choice of action but to pay it, as we had already admitted guilt in the previous case, and that was paid after this charge was laid.

The most interesting matter that arose in our conversation with the cops, is that they told us, and confirmed over phone, that one does not receive a criminal record for this type of offense yet, and it is merely like paying a "Speed Fine" They then told us that the fact that when they took fingerprints in the previous case was not necessary at all.

They also spoke of a trend that most of this bandwidth theft is happening between Cape Town and Johannesburg, with only 1 or 2 cases in other areas compared to the 50+ cases in Johannesburg. Many "Children" are apparently committing this offense without knowing what they are doing, as it is something they learn about at a "LAN" or through friends who are into computers etc.

Well, all in all, after speaking to the head of this investigation, she told us that this was the last charged laid against us as far as she could see, and I really hope it stays that way.

I would take the warrant, and go with them to your local police station. And get everything checked out.
Sounds fishy to me.

Also, dont you have the right to know who laid the charge against you?

 

[ld13]

Also, dont you have the right to know who laid the charge against you?

The government did. The person that informed the police that his bandwidth got stolen, did not make a case.

 

[davidpey]

Hey all,

We have just recently been the victims of bandwidth abuse. Read my final post on the topic here for more information: http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php?p=1571425#post1571425

Cheers

 

[RogueRunner]

Actually, you may not shoot a robber , it's illegal to open fire unless he does first (or so i heard :S). So yea, work up a trust with the robber, offer him some tea, etc.

You are very very wrong on this one!!!

 

[ld13]

[OT]

You are very very wrong on this one!!!

Unless you explain how he is wrong, you are wrong - for now
[/OT]