Bandwidth theft - procedure and contacts to solve

[PostmanPot]

Don't think they'll go through their computers. Only if they denied the charges. They just keep the PC's until the fine is paid.

 

[Rastabob]

I never said it wasnt a crime, but how many people would be affected if everyone with illegal music (mp3s) was charged by the police? I just would never charge somebody for stealing my bandwidth because In my opinion its a petty crime. Like underage drinking it deserves a slap on the wrist or a warning before laying charges. All just my opinion

 

[Ricard]

I never said it wasnt a crime, but how many people would be affected if everyone with illegal music (mp3s) was charged by the police? I just would never charge somebody for stealing my bandwidth because In my opinion its a petty crime. Like underage drinking it deserves a slap on the wrist or a warning before laying charges. All just my opinion

By who's definition is it petty ? Someone stealing 3Gig of bandwidth means *SOMEONE* is out of pocket by R400!!! in what way is that petty? you try take 400 bux in goods from Pick n Pay - see if they think its petty.

 

[The_Unbeliever]

By who's definition is it petty ? Someone stealing 3Gig of bandwidth means *SOMEONE* is out of pocket by R400!!! in what way is that petty? you try take 400 bux in goods from Pick n Pay - see if they think its petty.

And what about the company whose business suffers just because they're unable to send/receive emails (and somebody loses their job because of the financial hit the company's having) because some petty thief stole their bandwidth?

I don't think it's petty, it is theft. Finish en klaar.

I think the best way to handle this is not to send the offenders straight off to jail, but make the thief purchase bandwidth for the victim for three or so months.

 

[Rastabob]

I think you guys are missing my point. I dont condone adsl theft, just wouldnt encourage anyone to lay charges over it. Yes, people who do the crime need to be stopped, but I dont think this is the best way.

First off, the whole issue could easily be avoided if Telkom just setup everyones routers and changed the passwords when they installed lines. Secondly, four policemen needed to come search my parents place. How much resources are being poured into this? Then what happens? The guilty person pays a R1500 fine to the government.

So, justice is served? I know if someone stole my 4gig cap I wouldnt want anyone paying R1500 to the govt, just give me back the R280 I paid for it please. The charges against my parents were for 1gig, which is worth about R60. Its also impossible to monitor what account guests use on your premises (when having lans), or if someone is accessing your wireless router.

Ill tell you now my 50 year old parents didnt hack anyones line. All im saying is think twice before you lay a charge at the police. Just change the password on your router and it wont happen again!

 

[Ricard]

I think you guys are missing my point. I dont condone adsl theft, just wouldnt encourage anyone to lay charges over it. Yes, people who do the crime need to be stopped, but I dont think this is the best way.

Well... ummm Teach them a lesson with a criminal record. You really are sounding like a person that has been busted.

First off, the whole issue could easily be avoided if Telkom just setup everyones routers and changed the passwords when they installed lines.

Why blame someone else? What you are saying is that people that dont change their routers passwords are "ASKING" to have their accounts hijacked.

Its like saying that girls cant wear mini-skirts 'cos they are asking to be raped... and then blame EDGARS 'cos there was no warning label when something bad happens?

Secondly, four policemen needed to come search my parents place. How much resources are being poured into this? Then what happens? The guilty person pays a R1500 fine to the government.

I pay my taxes! .. I EXPECT the police to even come out when my cat is stuck in a tree.

So, justice is served? I know if someone stole my 4gig cap I wouldnt want anyone paying R1500 to the govt, just give me back the R280 I paid for it please. The charges against my parents were for 1gig, which is worth about R60.

So steal 100 peoples accounts and then pay back the ones that complain... LOL! 1 gig, 2Gig 10Gig! .. they are all just account numbers! The Quantity is not the issue, the DEED is the problem! Did you know that pointing an unloaded gun at a person and pulling the trigger is 'Attempted murder' ? There is a clear intention!

Its also impossible to monitor what account guests use on your premises (when having lans), or if someone is accessing your wireless router.

THAT is plain stupidity! Sorry, I have no other words for it! You might think I am harsh but thats the reality. You let OTHER people configure your router? /me nods his head in disbelief

Ill tell you now my 50 year old parents didnt hack anyones line. All im saying is think twice before you lay a charge at the police. Just change the password on your router and it wont happen again!

Its not the polices's job to say who is guilty or not. You have an option to Pay the "Admission of Guilt" or "Go to court" pick one... let a judge decide this one.

Your parents can have their day in court and THEN you can implicate the REAL person you let configure your router with the stolen account.

 

[Rastabob]

Ricard, my parents were "busted". It doesnt sound like you know what you are talking about.

If you have a LAN with 16 people at your house (which I did regularly), they need to be connected to some kind of network, hence Local Area Network!

Of course you can blame Telkom! You know if somebody compromises your internet banking, if it wasnt your fault the bank will normally compensate you. What would you think if the bank gave you internet banking with a default password? Its insane that Telkom installs routers with remote access enabled and a default password unchanged.

Due to the nature of this crime it is virtually impossible to prove anything other than what phone line was used to access the account. Therefore my parents can have there day in court and wont be able to implicate anyone.

Lastly yes, if somebody uses 100gig of a businesses adsl account he should payback whatever it was worth. Punishment should fit the crime. We dont just hand out blanket R10 000 fines for any crime, regardless of whether its fraud, murder, robbery etc?

 

[Ricard]

Ricard, my parents were "busted". It doesnt sound like you know what you are talking about.

I am not the one in the pickle..

If you have a LAN with 16 people at your house (which I did regularly), they need to be connected to some kind of network, hence Local Area Network!

So how is this telkoms fault you had 16 people for a lan party? and to top it all off... 16 people you cant trust!

Of course you can blame Telkom! You know if somebody compromises your internet banking, if it wasnt your fault the bank will normally compensate you. What would you think if the bank gave you internet banking with a default password? Its insane that Telkom installs routers with remote access enabled and a default password unchanged.

I do agree with you on the default password stuff.. but you seem to know just enough to be dangerous.... why did you not change it?

Dont confuse a telkom router with banking. Banks use 2 or 3 factor authentication, and THEY offer a guarantee that their systems ARE scure, please show me where on the telkoms contacts/statements do they say that their routers are unhackable?

Due to the nature of this crime it is virtually impossible to prove anything other than what phone line was used to access the account. Therefore my parents can have there day in court and wont be able to implicate anyone.

One line in SA law... "He who alledges must supply proof" - its not YOUR place to disprove. -BEYOND RESONABLE DOUBT-

]
Lastly yes, if somebody uses 100gig of a businesses adsl account he should payback whatever it was worth. Punishment should fit the crime. We dont just hand out blanket R10 000 fines for any crime, regardless of whether its fraud, murder, robbery etc?

[/QUOTE]
Yes, I do agree - but as I said in my previous posts, its not the Cops job to determine the penalty, its the 'Court of Law' that does that. The point of a court is NOT to ony dish out the penalty, but to hear the Human side of the story and then decide! If your parents went to court and gave their side of the story, and then get to the bottom of which one of the 16 people at your party was a plain theif!

Are you unwilling to forward that information? Or you prefer harboring a criminals identity? Owning stolen property is a criminal offence too! no matter if you didnt know it was stolen!

 

[Rastabob]

Ricard you seem like a reasonable fellow. Whatever man, im not in any kind of pickle, im not even in the country anymore! My parents just paid the fine anyway because they wanted their pc back. I now live in a 1st world country with cheap 24mb uncapped adsl

Of course I changed my routers password, Its the people who get their accounts stolen who havnt changed theirs, and its not very hard to that.

Press charges if you want, Im still of the opinion its more productive to change your routers password but hey, at least the SA police are doing something

 

[Ricard]

Ricard you seem like a reasonable fellow. Whatever man, im not in any kind of pickle, im not even in the country anymore! My parents just paid the fine anyway because they wanted their pc back. I now live in a 1st world country with cheap 24mb uncapped adsl

Of course I changed my routers password, Its the people who get their accounts stolen who havnt changed theirs, and its not very hard to that.

Press charges if you want, Im still of the opinion its more productive to change your routers password but hey, at least the SA police are doing something

Put yourself in a victims shoes.. all he can see is his bandwidth disappearing.... nothing else! He phones telkom and asks for help.. Telkom says "If there is no case number, we wont release the information".. hence laying a charge is the only way to get results.

The Victim does not know if his bandwidth is being taken by a kid playing about or a syndicate stealing accounts and re-selling them! .. believe me! bandwidth syndicates are alive and well in SA.

 

[lexor]

I know that the SA Police and the National Prosecution Authority(NPA) has a commercial court in Bellville that only deals with "white collar crime" ect.

They will be the people to investigate such a case.

Sorry no Tel No's for them .

 

[PostmanPot]

I know that the SA Police and the National Prosecution Authority(NPA) has a commercial court in Bellville that only deals with "white collar crime" ect.

They will be the people to investigate such a case.

Sorry no Tel No's for them .

Yep, that's where Captain Niemand is.

 

[kevinswan007]

"let he who has no sins cast the first stone" or something like that.
yes, what these bandwidth thieves are doing is wrong, but answer me this.
Have you ever downloaded mp3's?
Have you ever copied a friends cd?
Are you or have you ever used pirated software?

I bet more than 90% of you people out there would answer yes.
Shouldn't you also be punished? Have a 'criminal record' ?
I mean, by copying cd's, downloading mp3's, you are 'robbing' artists and software developers of their hard work.

So where does the ethical line start? just one mp3 is ok? 5000 maybe?

Theft is theft, stealing is stealing.
If you want to stand and judge, take a look in the mirror.

Now educate yourself on how to protect yourself, for it might only be bandwidth theft now, but it could have been a hacker that attacks your pc, steals your private data then formats your hard drive. Which is now avoided because you have taken steps (change password/installed a firewall, anti-virus software etc etc) to avoid such a catastrophe.

 

[rwenzori]

"let he who has no sins cast the first stone" or something like that.
yes, what these bandwidth thieves are doing is wrong, but answer me this.
Have you ever downloaded mp3's?
Have you ever copied a friends cd?
Are you or have you ever used pirated software?

I bet more than 90% of you people out there would answer yes.
Shouldn't you also be punished? Have a 'criminal record' ?
I mean, by copying cd's, downloading mp3's, you are 'robbing' artists and software developers of their hard work.

So where does the ethical line start? just one mp3 is ok? 5000 maybe?

Theft is theft, stealing is stealing.
If you want to stand and judge, take a look in the mirror.

Regarding MP3s and music, it is quite legal to download for your own personal and private use in our country, so you are talking a lot of k@k here. Regarding software, the copyright owner would in some circumstances have a case against you for copyright infringement which is a civil matter ie: does not result in a "criminal record". Only if you go selling the stuff would it be a criminal matter. Neither is "piracy" - which is robbery on the high seas. Nor are they "theft", unlike bandwidth theft. So why not go brush up on your laws before flat-footing it here.

 

[kevinswan007]

lol

I was not talking South African laws rwenzori, read my post again. you can borrow my glasses if you want.
I was talking ethically. downloading mp3's, pirated software etc for personal use or whatever is ethically immoral.

just because our country does not recognize it as a crime (yet) does not make it right.

so brush up on your reading before you waste 2 minutes of my life again.

 

[rwenzori]

lol

I was not talking South African laws rwenzori, read my post again. you can borrow my glasses if you want.
I was talking ethically. downloading mp3's, pirated software etc for personal use or whatever is ethically immoral.

just because our country does not recognize it as a crime (yet) does not make it right.

so brush up on your reading before you waste 2 minutes of my life again.

My my, a bright spark!

One man's ethics are another man's dogpu.

 

[kevinswan007]

you can take your foot out of your mouth now

 

[kevinswan007]

and a quick question...if downloading mp3's and software for private use is not a criminal crime, but a civil one, surely bandwidth theft falls under the same group?
(someone has to lay a charge against that person before the police will do anything about it)

 

[rwenzori]

and a quick question...if downloading mp3's and software for private use is not a criminal crime, but a civil one, surely bandwidth theft falls under the same group?
(someone has to lay a charge against that person before the police will do anything about it)

I suggest you go read the laws of the land instead of trying to score points offa me.

 

[kevinswan007]

so you don't know...

thanks