Telkom will never satisfy everybody at the same time. My best is still the 3GB and "abuse thing", it you require cash you borrow it from the bank and pay interest on it, if you just walk in and take it they put your scrawny "behind" in jail, sex without consent is called "rape", we pay for 3gig and use 10 and suddenly we are a victims....du? Banks are never called a "monopoly" (no pun intended), nor a rape victim "stingy". Are abusers idiots or is it me for not raping the fat cat (rhetorical - don't answer). Is this new Telkom billing thing bringing and end to me paying for the neighbor filling his swimming pool when I use my shower? Then I like it a lot. On that point is water an essential “facility” then we should pay one rand for a glass full to keep someone alive and 20c less for 50 000 liters to fill a swimming pool.
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Bandwidth theft
- Thread starter wiseass
- Start date
Myrrdin
Expert Member
Appropriate name.
Ghatto
Active Member
ROFLMAO - Have to agree with you Myrrdin.
Specter
Well-Known Member
u study philosophy right??????
killadoob
Honorary Master
wow i dunno what ya talkin about lol
doobiwan
Executive Member
I think (repeat -think) I understand where wiseass is coming from.
If you pay for X and use 3*X, yes, then you're an abuser, thief, marauding hooligan, whatever.
The point people on this forum are trying to make is that at 3Gb, Telkom is charging for French Champagne, but only giving you dirty(shaped) water. Not only that, they only give you half a glass a day, while the rest of the world gets Unlimited French Champagne with free Strawberries and cream. They do it simply because they can.
If you want to use 30Gb's then you should have to pay for it, but the cost needs to be reasonable.
If you pay for X and use 3*X, yes, then you're an abuser, thief, marauding hooligan, whatever.
The point people on this forum are trying to make is that at 3Gb, Telkom is charging for French Champagne, but only giving you dirty(shaped) water. Not only that, they only give you half a glass a day, while the rest of the world gets Unlimited French Champagne with free Strawberries and cream. They do it simply because they can.
If you want to use 30Gb's then you should have to pay for it, but the cost needs to be reasonable.
wiseass said:
I sort of agree with wiseass: I want every one to pay per use (i.e. 30gig users pay more than 3gig users). This is the way people do it in a democracy.
However, I do not like the fact that Telkom call us (30 gig or uncapped users) “ABUSERS”. I do not abuse my ADSL. Even MS-Word indicates ABUSE as “exploitation”, “molest” or “be violent towards”. I do nothing of the sort. Rather call me a power user. I bought a 30gig cap package and I am just using what I paid for (I even have my invoice and daily online stats as proof). I do not share my account or try to do any tunnelling or proxy bypass.
The real WOLF in my Fairy Tale is my ISP. Like many out there, they buy 3gig accounts from Telkom and then resell it as a 30gig account (They surely redefine the term “Value-added service provider”). This is done purely because they know the correct billing systems are not in place (yet)to shine light on their (bordering to illegal) activities.
Come 1st November and they (ISP) will just blame Telkom for the new ridiculous fee.
Why cant the ISPs just get bandwidth from SAIX’s competitor, IS?
(My guess is IS will charge more or less the same price than Telkom, they might just actually be billing more accurately.)
doobiwan
Executive Member
Probably because they have to buy their international bandwidth from Telkom anyway and SAIX more than likely gets a fantastic discount.
TheRoDent
Cool Ideas Rep
What a wiseass.
Wiseass - But you forget this isn’t a bank - a bank is a business... NO ONE should control the telecom in a country its like privatising electricity and selling it at ridiculous prices and saying no you don’t have to have a heater because you can wear another jacket. Or it’s just like someone supplying water... but water that feeds growth in our economy - SMME, schools and other educators. And maybe we should cancel the development of Olympic swimmers because the 'water' is too expensive to put in their pools on a litre per individual basis.
But remember the government supplies water not some corrupt business that wants to sell it to you at 10 bucks a liter. With your lame argument we should stop spending millions on stadiums in poorer areas - because why do we even need stadiums everyone is like you and they just want to jog on the spot.
Under your stupid ignorant argument maybe we should stop putting telephone lines into poor areas because they don’t JUSTIFY the usage that you get from businesses. Why don’t you put a price on oxygen and then complain that your neighbor who is bigger than you breaths more, uses more and now you feel like you getting ripped off - or maybe that he has 5 kids and they ALL use more oxygen than you.
Why don’t you go to a poor area, to a poor school where there are like 500 kids on 1 ADSL line who probably use it FULL TIME and clock up like 80gigs a month and now tell them sorry kids ONLY the RICH kids in the RICH areas with the BMW's can afford internet TOOO only they deserve to learn anything - sorry its just cuck being born poor.
This is not about filling your neighbors pool, this is about the RIGHT to have one and not feel like someone is taking you from behind with a pineapple. So that’s right the poor kid in the squatter camp is a what you call an abuser - there are 500 hundred of them leash out your vengeance. Oh but remember its NOT YOUR PROBLEM they are poor you just want it to be fair? is it fair that they are poor? And you know what even if it is some fat cat sitting in a house downloading 80 gigs a month on his ADSL line - SO WHAT. There are millions of people in the world who do are they all abusers..... should the guy who LEAVES his TV on 24-7 pay per minute of viewing? should his TV license be based on how much of the service he uses...? 50 bucks extra if you want to watch the news? and 1 buck more every time you do... because if anything I would much rather compare TV to DSL than swimming pools or banks. Its communication we have a right to. Your just willing to pay more for it than the rest of us... and most of that rest cant afford to pay more.
Oh and btw there is a threshold of acceptable usuage for everything electricity, water and all other services. So people with pools do PAY more when they fill them. But i can promise you this..... that threshold where you start paying a lot more is sitting WAY WAY WAY above the telkom 3gig threshold - because by world standards thats FAR too low.
But remember the government supplies water not some corrupt business that wants to sell it to you at 10 bucks a liter. With your lame argument we should stop spending millions on stadiums in poorer areas - because why do we even need stadiums everyone is like you and they just want to jog on the spot.
Under your stupid ignorant argument maybe we should stop putting telephone lines into poor areas because they don’t JUSTIFY the usage that you get from businesses. Why don’t you put a price on oxygen and then complain that your neighbor who is bigger than you breaths more, uses more and now you feel like you getting ripped off - or maybe that he has 5 kids and they ALL use more oxygen than you.
Why don’t you go to a poor area, to a poor school where there are like 500 kids on 1 ADSL line who probably use it FULL TIME and clock up like 80gigs a month and now tell them sorry kids ONLY the RICH kids in the RICH areas with the BMW's can afford internet TOOO only they deserve to learn anything - sorry its just cuck being born poor.
This is not about filling your neighbors pool, this is about the RIGHT to have one and not feel like someone is taking you from behind with a pineapple. So that’s right the poor kid in the squatter camp is a what you call an abuser - there are 500 hundred of them leash out your vengeance. Oh but remember its NOT YOUR PROBLEM they are poor you just want it to be fair? is it fair that they are poor? And you know what even if it is some fat cat sitting in a house downloading 80 gigs a month on his ADSL line - SO WHAT. There are millions of people in the world who do are they all abusers..... should the guy who LEAVES his TV on 24-7 pay per minute of viewing? should his TV license be based on how much of the service he uses...? 50 bucks extra if you want to watch the news? and 1 buck more every time you do... because if anything I would much rather compare TV to DSL than swimming pools or banks. Its communication we have a right to. Your just willing to pay more for it than the rest of us... and most of that rest cant afford to pay more.
Oh and btw there is a threshold of acceptable usuage for everything electricity, water and all other services. So people with pools do PAY more when they fill them. But i can promise you this..... that threshold where you start paying a lot more is sitting WAY WAY WAY above the telkom 3gig threshold - because by world standards thats FAR too low.
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If communication really was a “right” for every one all over the world, then why is the telecoms business such a gigantic and budding one (not only in SA….actually we are still far behind). If all the telcos all over the world were supposed to give out ADSL for free (or at least close to free like you are suggesting), why are they making $Billions a year?
Telecoms is a business, not a charity. Sure you may contend that basic communications should be discounted, especially to the poor and needy (and I agree), but you can swear and use crude language until you are blue in the face (alternatively until your download of the latest release feature film is completed) before you will convince me that it is my (human) right to have fast internet access (I agree that in SA the definition of “fast” might be slightly different from in the rest of the (1st) world.
Lets be honest, most ADSL users complaining about the cap is not using it for school project research, banking, on-line shopping and e-mail…….noooooo…..its used for gaming, games/songs/movie download. How can anyone possibly see (sometimes illegal) downloading as a basic human right, comparable to water or (in your case) oxygen? Wiseass just tried to draw an analogy to explain Pay-Per-Use.
Please enlighten me into your way of thinking that led you to believe telcos in other countries are doing it for the love-of-it.
Telecoms is a business, not a charity. Sure you may contend that basic communications should be discounted, especially to the poor and needy (and I agree), but you can swear and use crude language until you are blue in the face (alternatively until your download of the latest release feature film is completed) before you will convince me that it is my (human) right to have fast internet access (I agree that in SA the definition of “fast” might be slightly different from in the rest of the (1st) world.
Lets be honest, most ADSL users complaining about the cap is not using it for school project research, banking, on-line shopping and e-mail…….noooooo…..its used for gaming, games/songs/movie download. How can anyone possibly see (sometimes illegal) downloading as a basic human right, comparable to water or (in your case) oxygen? Wiseass just tried to draw an analogy to explain Pay-Per-Use.
Please enlighten me into your way of thinking that led you to believe telcos in other countries are doing it for the love-of-it.
dot... this was aimed towards wiseass so i apologise if i offended you.
Troll: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll
Troll: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll
Dot...your argument is flawed because in most 1st world countries... its so cheap almost everyone can afford it. Even a poor American in a trailer park can afford it - oh and show me one school in America or Europe who are saying - you know what kids we just cant afford to have internet at school anymore. i am not saying it should be free - nowhere did i say that i am saying its a rip-off.
Oh and dot... most of the telecoms do almost give it away for free.... 15 pounds? 20 dollars? - that’s almost free and i bet almost on par to what they pay for electricity and water over there. Only these telecoms have a slightly more clever strategy... rather get 500 000 people on ADSL and get a small rental than rip of 50 000 with high charges.
As far as telkom not being a charity - YES they have shareholders who want returns but you know what at the end of the day they where given a monopoly by the government NOT so they could give their shareholders returns BUT because they could give the nation returns in the form of GROWTH in the telecoms industry in south africa, right now they are doing the opposite.
Dot - it shouldn’t matter what you use it for, its that you can.
My analogy is trying to say PAY PER USE doesn’t work everywhere - as far as human rights water, electricity etc.... well you have to start somewhere and i think education and growth of the economy and small business is a good place to start don’t you?... ...because at the end of the day those allow people to pay for basic necessities like water and electricity.
So maybe you can enlighten me where you get your nonsense from, instead of find flaws in my argument.
One huge mistake telkom are making, is that in any economy with competition the customer and customer service are KEY to survival. Telkom frankly don’t give a **** about both - there is NO WAY a company will survive in the long run with that attitude. At the end of the day they are failing in absolutely every respect. What their shareholders don’t realize is that this kind of behavior will destroy their share at the end of the day.
Oh and dot... most of the telecoms do almost give it away for free.... 15 pounds? 20 dollars? - that’s almost free and i bet almost on par to what they pay for electricity and water over there. Only these telecoms have a slightly more clever strategy... rather get 500 000 people on ADSL and get a small rental than rip of 50 000 with high charges.
As far as telkom not being a charity - YES they have shareholders who want returns but you know what at the end of the day they where given a monopoly by the government NOT so they could give their shareholders returns BUT because they could give the nation returns in the form of GROWTH in the telecoms industry in south africa, right now they are doing the opposite.
Dot - it shouldn’t matter what you use it for, its that you can.
My analogy is trying to say PAY PER USE doesn’t work everywhere - as far as human rights water, electricity etc.... well you have to start somewhere and i think education and growth of the economy and small business is a good place to start don’t you?... ...because at the end of the day those allow people to pay for basic necessities like water and electricity.
So maybe you can enlighten me where you get your nonsense from, instead of find flaws in my argument.
One huge mistake telkom are making, is that in any economy with competition the customer and customer service are KEY to survival. Telkom frankly don’t give a **** about both - there is NO WAY a company will survive in the long run with that attitude. At the end of the day they are failing in absolutely every respect. What their shareholders don’t realize is that this kind of behavior will destroy their share at the end of the day.
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ettubrute
Expert Member
Right on the first part. Wrong on the second (at the moment anyway) till South Africans learn how to complain and demand the service they are paying for. That's the biggest issue, and I include myself: we normally just shrug and say something like "Hey, this is Africa, we can't expect better."
Otherwise, I agree with you: start with educating of the people! But this also includes educating the people about how badly they are being scr3w3d by Telkom, and, because of it's huge stake, by the government they elected!
bv
Member
Hi,
International bandwidth costs next to nothing. There is large oversupply since the internet bubble years when telcos used to think there would be 2-digit growth figures forever.
I have said in another message that for about 250R/month in Europe, you get:
1) uncapped 20mbps ADSL (yes, 20000kbps)
2) unlimited phone calls to landlines
3) Internet-TV equivalent to DsTV
do your own calcs here, and check how much you dish out or would dish out for an equivalent service here. There is ONLY one answer to this puzzle: redistribution of wealth by way of cross-subsidizing Telkom developments throughout the country, and other fat profits going who knows where...
It is politically correct to do so, and there is no reason why Telkom would do otherwise. After all, everybody is free to leave the country. Depending on your (urban) lifestyle, contrary to popular belief, it may be already cheaper to live overseas.
As fas as I am concerned, this is just disguised taxation, and as long as complaints do not go far beyond these forums, it probably doesn't hurt that much...
Cheers,
bv
International bandwidth costs next to nothing. There is large oversupply since the internet bubble years when telcos used to think there would be 2-digit growth figures forever.
I have said in another message that for about 250R/month in Europe, you get:
1) uncapped 20mbps ADSL (yes, 20000kbps)
2) unlimited phone calls to landlines
3) Internet-TV equivalent to DsTV
do your own calcs here, and check how much you dish out or would dish out for an equivalent service here. There is ONLY one answer to this puzzle: redistribution of wealth by way of cross-subsidizing Telkom developments throughout the country, and other fat profits going who knows where...
It is politically correct to do so, and there is no reason why Telkom would do otherwise. After all, everybody is free to leave the country. Depending on your (urban) lifestyle, contrary to popular belief, it may be already cheaper to live overseas.
As fas as I am concerned, this is just disguised taxation, and as long as complaints do not go far beyond these forums, it probably doesn't hurt that much...
Cheers,
bv
Kalvaer
Expert Member
Firstly not at you for this Dot, but everyone seems to get the gaming thing wrong. Telkom even thinks gaming uses to much bandwidth, this is not always the case.dot said:
As you can tell... Yes I'm a gamer. More than likely, as you mentioned ..a "Power Gamer". Its my form of relaxation. When I'm not out wakeboarding or sitting at work, I can usually be found on my PC, It does drive the Fiance mad at times but she knew it before she said "YES".
Now my point is Last month I pushed my playing time to the limit in WoW, and racked up 190 hours worth of playing time. Total bandwidth usage for the month.... about 850 megs!
I will say that I agree we should be paying for what we use, If I pay for x amount of petrol, I am only allowed to drive X amount of km. BUT the cost involved for bandwidth is ludicrous.
I could never understand in the beginning why it cost so much to host a website in South Africa when its the same system overseas, Of course I had never factored in cost the ISP has to pay to Telkom for that bandwidth. My web sites run on servers in the USA and they also charge for bandwitdth usage etc...I pay +/-R80 for the first 30 gigs then +/-R35 for each gig after that. So it is an old system.. The problem is again.. The ludicrous price we pay in SA for it.
As to people complaining about the Cap's and shaping not all being the ones that need it I'm on a 3 gig ADSL, and I buy an extra 1 gig from NC for my gaming. The rest My Fiance uses for her research for her Masters degree.
I so wish I could use 30 gigs a month, though I said from the very beginning (and its here on the forums) when the 30 gig accounts came out that it wouldn't last while telkom had a say in the matter. I was hoping that with the ICASA findings I might actually be able to finally upgrade. Though as ettubrute said us South Africans aint expected to complain, if you do.. your in the minorty and Telkom just dont give a damn!
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