Best SA universities to study computer science

[Groggyme]

These rankings are really pointless. Outside the top 10 or 20 its really not very reliable. How is number 300 in the world better than 31 or 40?

I remember speaking to the then VC of Rhodes University Saleem Badat and asked him why Rhodes is ranked so low on these rankings. He said that they just send a form to the university to fill in and then require self reporting from then onwards. They didn't bother with these reports as they felt they contributed nothing to the university anyway. Still seems like that is the case.

 

[cguy]

You pull some massive generalisations from your very specific personalisations. Your first part didn't even address my post re UCT.

That's because I didn't disagree with it. It just doesn't hold for the better companies, but it does hold for most others.

The fact that your first job led to a better second job is the case for most of us. Has nothing to with your alma mater. On the other hand, I know for a fact that myself and many others that graduated from UCT got our first job into top companies, even abroad, hence the degree having considerable recognition.

Your idea of top company (and more specifically, top roles, since companies do hire over a wide spectrum), is likely different to mine.

It also depends what you studied and when you studied. And as I said in my previous post, for CS graduates, companies will look more at their internal assessments of the candidates, rather than the degree they're holding.

Top companies don't "internally assess" every candidate, and they're ranked for order of assessment.

And then you insist on "Maths 2" being needed. I checked various British universities, including Oxford, Cambridge and Imperial, and they don't require "Maths 2" in the CS degree.

The English system is based on the 13 + 3 system, and SA is based on the 12 + 3 + 1 system. British 1st year maths is SA and USA 2nd year maths. Oxford for example offers algebra, complex analysis, metric spaces, topology, etc. for year 2, which are 3rd year subjects at UCT. The degree is finished in 3 years, and is the equivalent of an SA honours degree, and the 4 year option is a Master's degree.

Computer Science can be studied for three years (BA) or four years (Master of Computer Science)

So it's just you being stuck in your old school way of thinking, and assuming South African universities must have changed somewhere to the worse, as usual. When the reality is that CS degrees around the world are moving away from such advanced maths. Otherwise, please tell me what non-academic career track you would need such high level math, that it wouldn't require anyway an M.Sc degree in that specific field.

Rather, it's just you, not understanding the British education system. For the second part, any type of engineering, scientific, machine learning, quantitative, computer science heavy, HPC/supercomputing, robotics, etc. field. An MSc is a good thing to have, although it's unlikely someone is going to have a relevant MSc without the correct foundations.

And honestly, I find your remarks disparaging about SA in general, which is why I never bothered to your private message. You're an expat that left over 20 years ago that is seemingly bitter, trying to justify their decision to leave. Hence, everything back home must be bad, nothing good can still exist, even the quality of UCT CS graduates are worse than abroad.

This is just dumbing things down, and misrepresenting what I am saying. The question was asking about SA universities vs the top 100 universities. You start off with the ludicrous assertion that you don't "think it matters much". It does - UCT is worse than these programs (not all programs), and it's really not a wild stretch given the rankings and relative reputations of these institutions. That I am make this about "everything back home must be bad" or some generalization about UCT being "worse than abroad" just because, is simply a comprehension failure on your part.

You even told me that you go on the mybroadband forum to inform yourself on what's happening back "home" for the sake of family that is still here. When it's literally the worst forum to do so. I think fellow local forumers alike can agree, we mostly come to exaggeratingly vent and be bitter about many things that don't necessarily affect our daily lives. I would never come on this forum to see how the situation is for my family. It's a very one-sided view.

It's a very two sided view actually - just about every forum post has people debating two sides of an issue. That is exactly why I am here.

Which is why I think what you said is BS. If one looks at your posts, you sound like a bitter expat wanting to vent, rather than someone that genuinely wants to inform themselves about SA. And I am simply posting this for everyone else to see. So that in case you give anyone advice, they at least know where you're coming from.

You sound like you've got a massive chip on your shoulder, bud.

 

[cguy]

Thank you! Yes, I also thought of robotic automation and machine learning. How many go in that direction as software engineers, though?

A whole lot more overseas (especially at top 100 ranked universities) than SA, because of the very issue we're discussing. These are incredibly lucrative areas to work in.

What surprised me is that Imperial College actually has CS degrees focused on these fields, yet none of them include Maths 2 in their curriculum: MEng Computing (Artificial Intelligence and Machine Learning) & MEng Computing (Visual Computing and Robotics). That is interesting... considering that Imperial is ranked 16th best CS programme in the world. It makes sense why general software engineering programmes would decide to just stick with Maths 1 or MAM1000, but AI & machine learning? Surely, you need more advanced maths there (especially for a MEng degree).

As said in my previous post, you've got this upside down - their Maths 1 is SA's Maths 2. They get their honours after 3 years, and masters after 4, and typically do A levels, meaning 13 years of pre-university education, their last year covering much of SA 1st year university.

Also, re working in finance, I believe BBusSc degrees at UCT still require Maths 2 or MAM2000 in their curriculum.

Just to maybe clarify my previous post, I'm not necessarily contesting whether it's good or not that Maths 2 was eventually removed. I am sure there are good valid points on both sides. What irked me about his post was more his approach that SA universities are bad, simply because of this. Yet he didn't bother to see what's happening at the top UK universities he holds in such high regard. It's a theme in his posts: "SA bad, overseas good". Which sure, in many cases it could be true, but it's not a blanket rule.

You've unwittingly proved my point - they require 12+2 years of maths, while SA universities requires 12+1.

 

[cguy]

I can't comment on the rest of the comment, but in terms of where Math 2 is required in my personal experience versus other programmers/computer scientists that weren't exposed to it, is in the fields of robotic automation, vision control, machine learning, image processing and statistical analysis - so mostly manufacturing, engineering and factory automation. In addition I know that it was essential for anyone working in finance in terms of quantitative work.

I think most folks could learn it as and when required, but it helped knowing that people had already passed some of the math basics covered in math 2. I think it's just less risk for employers. I know you can learn it as required, since math 3 dealt with cryptography and it isn't essential or necessary in order to work with blockchain. It just seems a strange choice to remove from the curriculum, but interesting that you mention it to be the case at other uni's.

Many people can learn it, but from day 1 the lack of the requisite fundamentals will steer them away from those jobs, meaning that as a new-hire their background/education wouldn't be a good match, and then because the area they do end up becoming experienced in, isn't likely to be mathematically involved, they're lead to choose between resetting their careers or continuing to advance in their non-mathematical field (in which they are experienced and well established), if they want to change over.

 

[hj007]

Many people can learn it, but from day 1 the lack of the requisite fundamentals will steer them away from those jobs, meaning that as a new-hire their background/education wouldn't be a good match, and then because the area they do end up becoming experienced in, isn't likely to be mathematically involved, they're lead to choose between resetting their careers or continuing to advance in their non-mathematical field (in which they are experienced and well established), if they want to change over.

I had friends that failed the theoretical maths which didn't change the fact they were decent computer scientists. Unfortunately it precluded them from completing their degree due to math being a course requirement. It was a bugbear of mine that they couldn't just graduate with a CS degree/no math especially now that they seem to have dropped it in any case.

I remember that we had hundreds of 1st year math students for BSc but a fraction would pass. Perhaps this is just the universities attempts to get market fit for what opportunities exist in SA / the strength of students mathematical school education. Or they're getting too few students with people moving to bootcamps or something.

I suspect the strongest math/cs students will likely do Math2/3, so perhaps its a moot point in any case.

 

[cguy]

I had friends that failed the theoretical maths which didn't change the fact they were decent computer scientists. Unfortunately it precluded them from completing their degree due to math being a course requirement. It was a bugbear of mine that they couldn't just graduate with a CS degree/no math especially now that they seem to have dropped it in any case.

I remember that we had hundreds of 1st year math students for BSc but a fraction would pass. Perhaps this is just the universities attempts to get market fit for what opportunities exist in SA / the strength of students mathematical school education. Or they're getting too few students with people moving to bootcamps or something.

I suspect the strongest math/cs students will likely do Math2/3, so perhaps its a moot point in any case.

I do agree with this - I also had several university friends who either dropped out because they couldn't pass Maths 2, had to attempt it a second or even a third time, while some switch to Information Systems to avoid it.

So, yes - the system does fail those who are decent at most CS topics, but for whatever reason can't get their heads around the maths (and I agree that it can be due to the way it's presented). I do, however, believe that this is a pretty narrow band - many of those who hit this, would likely do better in an IS type environment anyway, and very few have a block that can't be overcome with an additional attempt if they are certain that a full CS degree is the direction they want to go. This is the sorting in action, but it does unfortunately have a few casualties.

 

[CTSA]

That's because I didn't disagree with it. It just doesn't hold for the better companies, but it does hold for most others.

Your idea of top company (and more specifically, top roles, since companies do hire over a wide spectrum), is likely different to mine.

Top companies don't "internally assess" every candidate, and they're ranked for order of assessment.

The English system is based on the 13 + 3 system, and SA is based on the 12 + 3 + 1 system. British 1st year maths is SA and USA 2nd year maths. Oxford for example offers algebra, complex analysis, metric spaces, topology, etc. for year 2, which are 3rd year subjects at UCT. The degree is finished in 3 years, and is the equivalent of an SA honours degree, and the 4 year option is a Master's degree.

Computer Science can be studied for three years (BA) or four years (Master of Computer Science)


Rather, it's just you, not understanding the British education system. For the second part, any type of engineering, scientific, machine learning, quantitative, computer science heavy, HPC/supercomputing, robotics, etc. field. An MSc is a good thing to have, although it's unlikely someone is going to have a relevant MSc without the correct foundations.


This is just dumbing things down, and misrepresenting what I am saying. The question was asking about SA universities vs the top 100 universities. You start off with the ludicrous assertion that you don't "think it matters much". It does - UCT is worse than these programs (not all programs), and it's really not a wild stretch given the rankings and relative reputations of these institutions. That I am make this about "everything back home must be bad" or some generalization about UCT being "worse than abroad" just because, is simply a comprehension failure on your part.


It's a very two sided view actually - just about every forum post has people debating two sides of an issue. That is exactly why I am here.

You sound like you've got a massive chip on your shoulder, bud.

Wait, the debate was never about UCT vs top 100 universities. That's a ridiculous comparison. Even comparing a mid-level UK uni to a top UK uni is ridiculous. The debate was about the quality about the CS degree at UCT. And your argument is, because they don't offer MAM2000, the degree is crap. I showed that many universities do not require Maths 2 anymore for CS programmes. Also, can you offer any proof that the UK Maths 1 is the equivalent of UCT's MAM2000? Like with links and all? And as you pointed out, I don't mean Oxford, which has courses that are above and beyond most institutions globally, even domestically. Because let's face it, the top 100 unis, let alone Oxford, are not a major source of CS graduates in the UK.

And you're wrong about honours. They dropped the system after they aligned themselves with the European Bologna Process, as in the rest of continental Europe, where schooling is only 12 years. Has nothing to do with their 13 years of schooling. So it's laughable that you claim to know the British educational system better (bear in mind that my children were partially educated in the system - so it's not foreign to me).

And if you're actually in the industry (but I have a feeling you're not - probably some academic somewhere based on previous posts), you would know that a) companies do have internal assessments, and b) most CS graduates employed in the UK don't come from top 100 universities. So, yes, it's not necessary to go to a top 100 university to get employed by a top company. Also, as @hj007, taking Maths 2 doesn't necessarily make you a decent software engineer later on in your career. You're making ridiculous assertions simply to fit your agenda. And my remark re "everything back home must be bad" is not based simply on this thread, but several of your posts and your private message. So the question begs to be asked, you've been gone for 20 years, why don't you just let it go and move on? Are you so driven to come on this thread and try to spread negativity to everyone still living here and going to local unis? Surely you realise that most parents and young people on this forum won't have plans that involve top 100 unis, even if they wanted to. Most kids in the UK don't go to top 100 unis, even with good A-level grades.

P.S. Surely you mean automation, not robotics, which is covered by the Mechatronics Engineering degree at UCT (that I believe does have Maths 2).

 

[cguy]

Wait, the debate was never about UCT vs top 100 universities. That's a ridiculous comparison. Even comparing a mid-level UK uni to a top UK uni is ridiculous.

@hj007 was asking if it was necessary to send kids to a Top 100 or if SA local was fine. You argued that it didn't matter, and I said that UCT was at a huge disadvantage relative to these for the better companies (that can pick and choose). I fully agree that for most companies it doesn't make much difference (they're not hiring Oxford PhDs as their DBAs or intranet web app developers), however, you should realize that there is a spectrum here, where it becomes progressively harder to get into the more desirable companies as your qualifications start to compete with better ranked universities.

The debate was about the quality about the CS degree at UCT. And your argument is, because they don't offer MAM2000, the degree is crap.

Not crap, but not mandating it, makes the qualification worse than it was, by virtue of a lower bar. Jeez dude. Exaggerate much? Also, they do offer MAM20000.

I showed that many universities do not require Maths 2 anymore for CS programmes. Also, can you offer any proof that the UK Maths 1 is the equivalent of UCT's MAM2000? Like with links and all? And as you pointed out, I don't mean Oxford, which has courses that are above and beyond most institutions globally, even domestically. Because let's face it, the top 100 unis, let alone Oxford, are not a major source of CS graduates in the UK.

You don't mean Oxford, when you literally, listed Oxford, Cambridge and Imperial, all of which require A-levels. in maths and/or further-maths. You just have to look up the syllabus for the university courses to see that they're a year ahead. For reference:
A-Level Maths: https://www.cambridgeinternational.org/Images/415060-2020-2022-syllabus.pdf
A-Level Further Maths: https://www.cambridgeinternational.org/Images/414957-2020-2022-syllabus.pdf

This is roughly the Maths 1 syllabus at UCT and other SA universities.

Cambridge Maths IA (1st year) is roughly the same as MAM2000 (with some stats too). https://www.maths.cam.ac.uk/undergrad/files/coursesIA.pdf

Cambridge Maths IB (2nd year) is roughly the same as MAM3000:

https://www.maths.cam.ac.uk/undergrad/files/coursesIB.pdf

I expect you will see much the same from any university that requires A-levels for their entrance requirements.

And you're wrong about honours. They dropped the system after they aligned themselves with the European Bologna Process, as in the rest of continental Europe, where schooling is only 12 years. Has nothing to do with their 13 years of schooling. So it's laughable that you claim to know the British educational system better (bear in mind that my children were partially educated in the system - so it's not foreign to me).

I didn't mean that they literally get an honours degree as their final year - their 3 year degree is equivalent to an SA 3 year + honours (4-th year) degree. A-levels are their 13th year, their BSc is 4 years after their 12th year.

And if you're actually in the industry (but I have a feeling you're not - probably some academic somewhere based on previous posts), you would know that a) companies do have internal assessments, and b) most CS graduates employed in

FAANG/FAANG-like/Better-than-FANG for ~20 years.

Another comprehension fail: I said that they don't internally assess every candidate. This doesn't mean that I believe they don't have internal assessments, they're simply not going to get to to the point of assessing all candidates, because many candidates will get rejected straight out, or be stuck at the bottom of the pile indefinitely.

the UK don't come from top 100 universities. So, yes, it's not necessary to go to a top 100 university to get employed by a top company.

I didn't say it was necessary, I said UCT (and generally, other > 100 ranked) are at a progressively larger disadvantage as the rank number increases.

Also, as @hj007, taking Maths 2 doesn't necessarily make you a decent software engineer later on in your career.

You're really getting stuck on likely/unlikely vs. sufficient/necessary. I also don't think it's necessary to do Maths 2 to be a decent, or even excellent software engineer later in your career. However, it's going to make you more attractive to a wider array of companies, especially they better ones doing the kind of work that requires this level of education, it makes it more likely that you pass their interviews, which makes it more likely that you continue to grow a career in a higher-demand environment than you would otherwise experience.

You're making ridiculous assertions simply to fit your agenda. And my remark re "everything back home must be bad" is not based simply on this thread, but several of your posts and your private message.

Your prior reading of my posts is very likely tinted through the lens of defensiveness you are exhibiting here. You are largely misinterpreting what I say. I am critical of the way SA education has gone (as both a product of it myself, and as an educator and long time professional with a lot of exposure to top foreign university graduates), and feel that people who ask about it, should be aware of this. I also have concerns about crime and future outlook, which is hardly irrational or unique, and I don't go on about it ad nauseum - you're also the one that brought it up.

So the question begs to be asked, you've been gone for 20 years, why don't you just let it go and move on? Are you so driven to come on this thread and try to spread negativity to everyone still living here and going to local unis? Surely you realise that most parents and young people on this forum won't have plans that involve top 100 unis, even if they wanted to. Most kids in the UK don't go to top 100 unis, even with good A-level grades.

I am here to give my assessment of the situation as a professional who has a unique and informed perspective on the topic. Surely you realize that being informed is better than being ignorant? The latter leads to actual negative consequences, rather than a healthy sense of dissonance. Some readers do indeed have the means to send their kids overseas (financially, or heritage), perhaps to a top 10, top 50 or top 200 university, and for those that don't at least they can glean from this that perhaps electing to do Maths 2/3 or other dual major can give their kids a step up, and put them on a more equal platform globally.

P.S. Surely you mean automation, not robotics, which is covered by the Mechatronics Engineering degree at UCT (that I believe does have Maths 2).

I meant robotics.

 

[NarrowBandFtw]

NMMU did not even feature

in a past life when it was part of my job to interview graduates for dev roles in what was quite a respectable company I saw the shift in real time

many quality grads came from UCT, Rhodes, UPE and close behind them WITS and Stellenbosch

for the most part that held true for many years, except UPE fell off a f-ing cliff in terms of quality round about the time the name changed to NMMU

 

[3WA]

UPE fell off a f-ing cliff in terms of quality round about the time the name changed to NMMU

They modified the name again. Now it’s NMU. Maybe that will help.

 

[CTSA]

@hj007 was asking if it was necessary to send kids to a Top 100 or if SA local was fine. You argued that it didn't matter, and I said that UCT was at a huge disadvantage relative to these for the better companies (that can pick and choose). I fully agree that for most companies it doesn't make much difference (they're not hiring Oxford PhDs as their DBAs or intranet web app developers), however, you should realize that there is a spectrum here, where it becomes progressively harder to get into the more desirable companies as your qualifications start to compete with better ranked universities.

He obviously meant in terms of whether they will receive a good education and whether they're employable. Not if UCT is as good as a top 100 uni. Obviously (as I mentioned in my first post) send them to a top 100 uni. But that wasn't his issue. Otherwise, sending them to UCT is still fine, education will still be decent, they can still be highly-competent software engineers and they will be able to find a good job upon graduation.

Not crap, but not mandating it, makes the qualification worse than it was, by virtue of a lower bar. Jeez dude. Exaggerate much? Also, they do offer MAM20000.

I meant MAM2000 isn't offered as a compulsory course for the CS programme, as this is what the whole discussion is about. Don't play dumb. And since you mention that it is an option as an elective, then you should include in your advice: "Look UCT is good place if you don't get into a top 100 uni, but I would recommend to also take MAM2000 to have a better chance at interviews, etc." A lot better than just to dismiss an institution completely.

You don't mean Oxford, when you literally, listed Oxford, Cambridge and Imperial, all of which require A-levels. in maths and/or further-maths. You just have to look up the syllabus for the university courses to see that they're a year ahead. For reference:
Maths: https://www.cambridgeinternational.org/Images/415060-2020-2022-syllabus.pdf
Further Maths: https://www.cambridgeinternational.org/Images/414957-2020-2022-syllabus.pdf

This is roughly the Maths 1 syllabus at UCT and other SA universities.

Cambridge Maths IA (1st year) is roughly the same as MAM2000 (with some stats too). https://www.maths.cam.ac.uk/undergrad/files/coursesIA.pdf

Cambridge Maths IB (2nd year) is roughly the same as MAM3000:

https://www.maths.cam.ac.uk/undergrad/files/coursesIB.pdf

I expect you will see much the same from any university that requires A-levels for their entrance requirements.

It's not the same thing. My whole point was that even the top British unis don't require Maths 2. What you're saying is that the UK Maths 1 is equivalent to SA Maths 2. You can't throw around Oxford and Cambridge, as the level of their Maths 1 is not the same as other Maths 1 in the UK. In any case, I see you're now changing tack on how necessary MAM2000 is for a good CS education.

FAANG/FAANG-like/Better-than-FANG for ~20 years.

Another comprehension fail: I said that they don't internally assess every candidate. This doesn't mean that I believe they don't have internal assessments, they're simply not going to get to to the point of assessing all candidates, because many candidates will get rejected straight out, or be stuck at the bottom of the pile indefinitely.

I also worked for many years at FAANG.. +M - including at management level (wonder if our paths crossed). So you should know there are quite a few SA CS graduates working there (young ones too). So your whole argument falls flat. And you should then know that applications are received from top 100 unis are small in proportion to the total pool size. The issue isn't really for graduates to get through to the internal assessments. And this goes back to what I told @hj007, even if one's child doesn't land up in a top 100 uni, they still have very good chances of going up in their career as a software engineer. Also you have to remember that FAANG also hires locally and then spreads globally. So the local subsidiaries of FAANG will look at, for example, UCT and Stellies to hire, and those graduates will then benefit from global mobility schemes to move somewhere else.

Your prior reading of my posts is very likely tinted through the lens of defensiveness you are exhibiting here. You are largely misinterpreting what I say. I am critical of the way SA education has gone (as both a product of it myself, and as an educator and long time professional with a lot of exposure to top foreign university graduates), and feel that people who ask about it, should be aware of this. I also have concerns about crime and future outlook, which is hardly irrational or unique, and I don't go on about it ad nauseum - you're also the one that brought it up.

I am here to give my assessment of the situation as a professional who has a unique and informed perspective on the topic. Surely you realize that being informed is better than being ignorant? The latter leads to actual negative consequences, rather than a healthy sense of dissonance. Some readers do indeed have the means to send their kids overseas (financially, or heritage), perhaps to a top 10, top 50 or top 200 university, and for those that don't at least they can glean from this that perhaps electing to do Maths 2/3 or other dual major can give their kids a step up, and put them on a more equal platform globally.

What makes your perspective unique? That you're advising people to go to a top 100 uni if they can. Wow, you're very special in that very special assessment. If it wasn't for your unique and informed perspective, we would have avoided sending our kids to top 100 unis, even if we could. Thank you, kind sir. Haha what a pointless and ridiculous affirmation you make. And you keep insisting on this point ... ad nauseum, when the discussion was whether UCT has a good programme, notwithstanding the lack of MAM2000 as a compulsory course. But you finally gave the advice you should have given initially "If you can, go to a top 100 uni, logically. However, if you can't, I would recommend to do a double major in maths, or take MAM2000 as an elective." No, your initial post was simply to attack the institution, not provide advice. So get off your high-horse. I'm not misinterpreting anything, you constantly bash any locally-related. Now, you're just backtracking and trying to repair your image.

I meant robotics.

So then there's the Mechatronics degree for that, not CS. And I believe they do "Maths 2" there.

 

[cguy]

He obviously meant in terms of whether they will receive a good education and whether they're employable. Not if UCT is as good as a top 100 uni.

He was specifically, asking if it compares to how it used to be, in comparison to today, and what parents should consider doing about it if worse. I answered this on two fronts: A) in terms of achievable education: mostly yes, if you've got good guidance, and B) in terms of recognition: No, for the various reasons I listed in #14.

Obviously (as I mentioned in my first post) send them to a top 100 uni. But that wasn't his issue. Otherwise, sending them to UCT is still fine, education will still be decent, they can still be highly-competent software engineers and they will be able to find a good job upon graduation.

I agree with that, although I also believe that there is significantly more motivation for parents to send their kids overseas than there was previously (same reasons in #14).

I meant MAM2000 isn't offered as a compulsory course for the CS programme, as this is what the whole discussion is about. Don't play dumb. And since you mention that it is an option as an elective, then you should include in your advice: "Look UCT is good place if you don't get into a top 100 uni, but I would recommend to also take MAM2000 to have a better chance at interviews, etc." A lot better than just to dismiss an institution completely.

Honestly, it's really hard to figure out your flapping "offer" vs "require" vs "need" "must" vs "likely" vs "necessary", etc. - you're very loose with the absolutes vs relatives. The above advice is what was given: one can believe that UCT currently provides a serviceable level of education, while simultaneously believing that both the recognition and quality of the degree has diminished, and more aggressive alternatives (foreign study) should be considered more strongly than previously.

You're taking a very polarized view of something that was just meant to bring awareness to the direction of a trend.

It's not the same thing. My whole point was that even the top British unis don't require Maths 2. What you're saying is that the UK Maths 1 is equivalent to SA Maths 2. You can't throw around Oxford and Cambridge, as the level of their Maths 1 is not the same as other Maths 1 in the UK. In any case, I see you're now changing tack on how necessary MAM2000 is for a good CS education.

So we're talking about "top British universities", but not Oxford and Cambridge. Got it... Even if it was just Oxford and Cambridge, have you considered why they do this?

Hmm.. University College of London is the same (A levels required, then more math). Perhaps there are some courses that require A levels and then don't have any further maths, but I have yet to find them.

I also worked for many years at FAANG.. +M - including at management level (wonder if our paths crossed). So you should know there are quite a few SA CS graduates working there (young ones too). So your whole argument falls flat.

The fact that a handful of people manage to get hired really isn't in question, it's the rate, and role that is the issue. I know a lot of people at M who have done really well, but they all graduated before the revisions I've mentioned.

And you should then know that applications are received from top 100 unis are small in proportion to the total pool size.

They don't have to be a large proportion. We get hundreds of applications for every position.

What makes your perspective unique?

Ex-educator, PhD, ~25 years of experience, ~20-years overseas working up to DE/Fellow level at one of the most desirable overseas employers, something in the order of 3000 interviews given.

That you're advising people to go to a top 100 uni if they can. Wow, you're very special in that very special assessment. If it wasn't for your unique and informed perspective, we would have avoided sending our kids to top 100 unis, even if we could. Thank you, kind sir. Haha what a pointless and ridiculous affirmation you make. And you keep insisting on this point ...

Now you're playing the fool - obviously anyone wants their kids to study at better institutions, but the question is how much impetus should placed on this, or do you think @hj007 is wondering if Oxford is better than Wits? I'm saying "more impetus than previously".

No, your initial post was simply to attack the institution, not provide advice. So get off your high-horse. I'm not misinterpreting anything, you constantly bash any locally-related. Now, you're just backtracking and trying to repair your image.

I didn't attack the institution - the one question was "Just curious as to whether Stellies at Top 500 means they're better or worse than they used to be " I answered it from my view on UCT, which I expect to be a country wide trend - sorry if that offends you.

So then there's the Mechatronics degree for that, not CS. And I believe they do "Maths 2" there.

Sure, but as a software engineer, I would want to do Maths 2 (and more specifically, also Applied Maths 2 too), so that at some point, I could perhaps move into robotics if I wanted to.

 

[slimeball]

Unfortunately we don't have an equivalent Stanford or Harvard in SA but I would say places like UCT (where i studied), Wits, Tuks and Stellenbosch are the best we have in SA and attract the brightest minds. Out of those I listed I think UCT has the most international presence. I have a few friends who were offered jobs overseas (US, Europe) after completing their degree from UCT so I don't think it's a barrier.

I chose to stay in SA for the time being as I have a good job (working as an embedded software engineer) and I get to code microprocessors for a living which I enjoy but I don't think I couldn't find a job overseas if I tried.