Best SA universities to study computer science

[Bradley Prior]

Best SA universities to study computer science

Stellenbosch University, the University of Cape Town, and the University of Pretoria are the best South African institutions to study computer science.

 

[RonSwanson]

NMMU did not even feature

 

[hj007]

Out of interest, is being in the top 1000 good? I have no reference as to what constitutes a great ranking, other than say 1st/top 10?

 

[cguy]

Out of interest, is being in the top 1000 good? I have no reference as to what constitutes a great ranking, other than say 1st/top 10?

It’s ok. They definitely fall off fast after the first 100 or so though. Most of these fall into “good education available if you do the work” bucket.

 

[hj007]

It’s ok. They definitely fall off fast after the first 100 or so though. Most of these fall into “good education available if you do the work” bucket.

I guess ok is good enough generally - no one suffered too much studying at Wits/UCT/Stellies/Tukkies back in the day.

Just curious as to whether Stellies at Top 500 means they're better or worse than they used to be - like should parents be sending to private uni/ivy league/Top 100 only these days, or will kids in SA still be fine going to the same institutions that their parents did.

 

[boboudts]

"Best universities in South Africa"....today's winning oxymoron.

 

[Bryn]

NMMU did not even feature

I'd have been astonished if it was.

 

[whatwhat]

lol, where is UNISA

 

[system32]

lol, where is UNISA

Where's UJ?

 

[RonSwanson]

Where's UJ?

Rhodes?

 

[r00igev@@r]

Maties 1988 Majors in Computer Science and Maths. When it was still proper.

 

[semiautomatix]

Rhodes?

They only brought the Internet to South Africa, have faculty members on the board of languages, including Mono. But you know, maybe they're too small.

 

[RonSwanson]

They only brought the Internet to South Africa, have faculty members on the board of languages, including Mono. But you know, maybe they're too small.

That's so true, in the eighties all internet roads led to Rhodes.
They did a lot for the English language culture too, English festivals every year.

 

[cguy]

I guess ok is good enough generally - no one suffered too much studying at Wits/UCT/Stellies/Tukkies back in the day.

Just curious as to whether Stellies at Top 500 means they're better or worse than they used to be - like should parents be sending to private uni/ivy league/Top 100 only these days, or will kids in SA still be fine going to the same institutions that their parents did.

It t’s hard to say - from an undergrad perspective it’s definitely easier to get through a degree now in SA without doing the work than it had ever been - more practicals, more tolerance for cheating, less weight on exams, less course prerequisites (MATHS 2 used to be a requirement for CS3 at UCT), less CS in favor of prepping graduates for specific careers, etc.

There are still good staff around though, so you still have the opportunity to learn a lot, if you pursue it, although the actual degree may be worth a bit less as a qualification for the reasons above.

Postgrad is also a bit of an issue - a lot more social science than science going on in comparison to overseas universities.

Overall, if I had kids, I would try send them to a top university overseas. If that was not possible, though, it’s not the end of the world, especially if they had good guidance from someone when studying (ie, they need someone to say, “I know you don’t need to study Maths 2, but …”).

 

[CTSA]

I guess ok is good enough generally - no one suffered too much studying at Wits/UCT/Stellies/Tukkies back in the day.

Just curious as to whether Stellies at Top 500 means they're better or worse than they used to be - like should parents be sending to private uni/ivy league/Top 100 only these days, or will kids in SA still be fine going to the same institutions that their parents did.

I honestly don't think it matters much. Companies in the UK, Western Europe and US, for example, are hiring loads of software engineers from Eastern Europe, and only a small number of their universities (in the whole region!) actually crack the top 1,000 for computer science, let alone top 500. And I wouldn't say their education is crap. You have to keep in mind that these rankings don't necessarily look at the quality of teaching (which accounts for only 30% of the ranking score), but rather at research output, international diversity, etc. Furthermore, at the end of the day, companies test candidates during their interview process. And with the constant labour shortage in industry, companies look more at whether you passed their internal assessments rather than where you studied (or how your uni is ranked).

Outside of computer science, I know that UCT is well-reputed even overseas and grads are sought after. Can't speak much for other unis, but I assume it's the same for Wits and Stellies.

less course prerequisites (MATHS 2 used to be a requirement for CS3 at UCT)

I remember reading that math at such level is becoming less present in undergrad CS degrees overseas too, as it is unnecessary for most career tracks. So I would say your child would be confronted with the same issue overseas. But, in any case, I don't think the education overseas is necessarily better simply because there's no "MATHS 2" at UCT. Of course, that's not say to not send your child to a top 100 institution, we of course always want our children to go to the best.

 

[cguy]

I honestly don't think it matters much. Companies in the UK, Western Europe and US, for example, are hiring loads of software engineers from Eastern Europe, and only a small number of their universities (in the whole region!) actually crack the top 1,000 for computer science, let alone top 500. And I wouldn't say their education is crap. You have to keep in mind that these rankings don't necessarily look at the quality of teaching (which accounts for only 30% of the ranking score), but rather at research output, international diversity, etc. Furthermore, at the end of the day, companies test candidates during their interview process. And with the constant labour shortage in industry, companies look more at whether you passed their internal assessments rather than where you studied (or how your uni is ranked).

Outside of computer science, I know that UCT is well-reputed even overseas and grads are sought after. Can't speak much for other unis, but I assume it's the same for Wits and Stellies.

Even UCT is at a huge disadvantage for the better companies. If it wasn’t for my research record, I never would have received my first US job offer, and without that company on my resume, I never would have received my 2nd one.

In contrast, the top universities are actively being recruited from by top companies for new hires, and candidates from them go to the top of the pile.

So, while I’m proof that you don’t need to be in the top university batch to get to a top employer, my path was also way more convoluted than that of most of my colleagues.

I remember reading that math at such level is becoming less present in undergrad CS degrees overseas too, as it is unnecessary for most career tracks. So I would say your child would be confronted with the same issue overseas. But, in any case, I don't think the education overseas is necessarily better simply because there's no "MATHS 2" at UCT. Of course, that's not say to not send your child to a top 100 institution, we of course always want our children to go to the best.

Perhaps some tracks - there are a lot more tracks for web technologies than there used to be that certainly don’t require as much maths, but in the top universities, there is far less emphasis on these, so it’s really hard to finish a computer science degree without hitting something that requires Calculus II or similar. At my prior job I eventually gave up forwarding and interviewing non-CS double majors (with maths/app.maths/stats) from SA, while from the big name US/UK schools I’ve never encountered anyone who didn’t have a decent understanding of the fundamentals.

Also, the core issue isn’t the lack of maths 2 specifically, but rather that this means that the CS courses later on tend to involve a lot less actual computer science as a result, and this tends to follow on to postgrad as well.

UCT used to require at least one other subject be taken to 3rd year level (other than CS), for at least a half course. I think a lot of breadth in education has been lost since this was changed. Also, several of the now honours courses were 3rd year courses.

 

[CTSA]

Even UCT is at a huge disadvantage for the better companies. If it wasn’t for my research record, I never would have received my first US job offer, and without that company on my resume, I never would have received my 2nd one.

In contrast, the top universities are actively being recruited from by top companies for new hires, and candidates from them go to the top of the pile.

So, while I’m proof that you don’t need to be in the top university batch to get to a top employer, my path was also way more convoluted than that of most of my colleagues.

Perhaps some tracks - there are a lot more tracks for web technologies than there used to be that certainly don’t require as much maths, but in the top universities, there is far less emphasis on these, so it’s really hard to finish a computer science degree without hitting something that requires Calculus II or similar. At my prior job I eventually gave up forwarding and interviewing non-CS double majors (with maths/app.maths/stats) from SA, while from the big name US/UK schools I’ve never encountered anyone who didn’t have a decent understanding of the fundamentals.

Also, the core issue isn’t the lack of maths 2 specifically, but rather that this means that the CS courses later on tend to involve a lot less actual computer science as a result, and this tends to follow on to postgrad as well.

UCT used to require at least one other subject be taken to 3rd year level (other than CS), for at least a half course. I think a lot of breadth in education has been lost since this was changed. Also, several of the now honours courses were 3rd year courses.

You pull some massive generalisations from your very specific personalisations. Your first part didn't even address my post re UCT. The fact that your first job led to a better second job is the case for most of us. Has nothing to with your alma mater. On the other hand, I know for a fact that myself and many others that graduated from UCT got our first job into top companies, even abroad, hence the degree having considerable recognition. It also depends what you studied and when you studied. And as I said in my previous post, for CS graduates, companies will look more at their internal assessments of the candidates, rather than the degree they're holding.

And then you insist on "Maths 2" being needed. I checked various British universities, including Oxford, Cambridge and Imperial, and they don't require "Maths 2" in the CS degree. So it's just you being stuck in your old school way of thinking, and assuming South African universities must have changed somewhere to the worse, as usual. When the reality is that CS degrees around the world are moving away from such advanced maths. Otherwise, please tell me what non-academic career track you would need such high level math, that it wouldn't require anyway an M.Sc degree in that specific field. And I honestly haven't come across the issue you're discussing, where SA graduates with a maths major had a less understanding of fundamentals than their UK counterparts. And it's not something I can counter, as I don't know you. But based on your previous posts, I will take this affirmation with a pinch of salt.

And honestly, I find your remarks disparaging about SA in general, which is why I never bothered to your private message. You're an expat that left over 20 years ago that is seemingly bitter, trying to justify their decision to leave. Hence, everything back home must be bad, nothing good can still exist, even the quality of UCT CS graduates are worse than abroad. You even told me that you go on the mybroadband forum to inform yourself on what's happening back "home" for the sake of family that is still here. When it's literally the worst forum to do so. I think fellow local forumers alike can agree, we mostly come to exaggeratingly vent and be bitter about many things that don't necessarily affect our daily lives. I would never come on this forum to see how the situation is for my family. It's a very one-sided view. Which is why I think what you said is BS. If one looks at your posts, you sound like a bitter expat wanting to vent, rather than someone that genuinely wants to inform themselves about SA. And I am simply posting this for everyone else to see. So that in case you give anyone advice, they at least know where you're coming from.

 

[longboy]

I have an undergrad and 3 postgrad degrees all from Unisa and it hasn't affected my employment prospects, right from undergrad. It's more about you as a person, rather than the institution that you graduated from.

As an employer, I don't look much at applicants academic knowledge as long as they have the minimum requirements satisfied. The focus is on them as a person, and if they can integrate into our workplace, can they be taught effectively, can they be relied upon, can they do as they are told or can they work independantly etc etc.

The standard tests given by me pre-employment are mostly EQ, personality type and stress-response tests. My head of security is an old coloured tannie, but she does the job best - just an example.

 

[hj007]

And then you insist on "Maths 2" being needed. I checked various British universities, including Oxford, Cambridge and Imperial, and they don't require Maths 2 in the CS degree. So it's just you being stuck in your old school way of thinking, and assuming South African universities must have changed somewhere to the worse, as usual. When the reality is that CS degrees around the world are moving away from such advanced maths. Otherwise, please tell me what non-academic career track you would need such high level math, that it wouldn't require anyway an M.Sc degree in that specific field.

I can't comment on the rest of the comment, but in terms of where Math 2 is required in my personal experience versus other programmers/computer scientists that weren't exposed to it, is in the fields of robotic automation, vision control, machine learning, image processing and statistical analysis - so mostly manufacturing, engineering and factory automation. In addition I know that it was essential for anyone working in finance in terms of quantitative work.

I think most folks could learn it as and when required, but it helped knowing that people had already passed some of the math basics covered in math 2. I think it's just less risk for employers. I know you can learn it as required, since math 3 dealt with cryptography and it isn't essential or necessary in order to work with blockchain. It just seems a strange choice to remove from the curriculum, but interesting that you mention it to be the case at other uni's.

 

[CTSA]

I can't comment on the rest of the comment, but in terms of where Math 2 is required in my personal experience versus other programmers/computer scientists that weren't exposed to it, is in the fields of robotic automation, vision control, machine learning, image processing and statistical analysis - so mostly manufacturing, engineering and factory automation. In addition I know that it was essential for anyone working in finance in terms of quantitative work.

I think most folks could learn it as and when required, but it helped knowing that people had already passed some of the math basics covered in math 2. I think it's just less risk for employers. I know you can learn it as required, since math 3 dealt with cryptography and it isn't essential or necessary in order to work with blockchain. It just seems a strange choice to remove from the curriculum, but interesting that you mention it to be the case at other uni's.

Thank you! Yes, I also thought of robotic automation and machine learning. How many go in that direction as software engineers, though? What surprised me is that Imperial College actually has CS degrees focused on these fields, yet none of them include Maths 2 in their curriculum: MEng Computing (Artificial Intelligence and Machine Learning) & MEng Computing (Visual Computing and Robotics). That is interesting... considering that Imperial is ranked 16th best CS programme in the world. It makes sense why general software engineering programmes would decide to just stick with Maths 1 or MAM1000, but AI & machine learning? Surely, you need more advanced maths there (especially for a MEng degree).

Also, re working in finance, I believe BBusSc degrees at UCT still require Maths 2 or MAM2000 in their curriculum.

Just to maybe clarify my previous post, I'm not necessarily contesting whether it's good or not that Maths 2 was eventually removed. I am sure there are good valid points on both sides. What irked me about his post was more his approach that SA universities are bad, simply because of this. Yet he didn't bother to see what's happening at the top UK universities he holds in such high regard. It's a theme in his posts: "SA bad, overseas good". Which sure, in many cases it could be true, but it's not a blanket rule.