Biggest ADSL downloader

It's called theft

Always amazes me that people will bitch and moan about the levels of crime in the country while gleefully stealing 150+ GB's of music/porn/movies/series/software, like pigs at a trough!
 
sorCrer1 said:
Always amazes me that people will bitch and moan about the levels of crime in the country while gleefully stealing 150+ GB's of music/porn/movies/series/software, like pigs at a trough!
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so you see it as the same if I walk into your house, knock you unconscious, take your wallet, keys to the car and help myself to your wifes jewelry (which thankfully your wife isnt at home, because who knows what else would be done to her) and downloading tv series and mp3's for my own personal use where, if I liked the music or liked the movie/tv show, would eagerly go out and watch it at the cinema with friends/buy the DVD.

I would rethink that statement
 
sorCrer1 said:
Always amazes me that people will bitch and moan about the levels of crime in the country while gleefully stealing 150+ GB's of music/porn/movies/series/software, like pigs at a trough!
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You really are quite wrong. Downloading copyrighted stuff for your own use is not a criminal offence but a civil matter called "copyright infringement". It is not "stealing". It is not "piracy". In fact, downloading music for your private and personal use is not even against our copyright law.
 
sorCrer1 said:
Always amazes me that people will bitch and moan about the levels of crime in the country while gleefully stealing 150+ GB's of music/porn/movies/series/software, like pigs at a trough!
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Don't knock it. Some people spend a lot of money and put in a great deal of effort to feed at that trough.
 
kevinswan007 said:
so you see it as the same if I walk into your house, knock you unconscious, take your wallet, keys to the car and help myself to your wifes jewelry (which thankfully your wife isnt at home, because who knows what else would be done to her) and downloading tv series and mp3's for my own personal use where, if I liked the music or liked the movie/tv show, would eagerly go out and watch it at the cinema with friends/buy the DVD.
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While it is not the same as violent crime, how is it any different from fraud? Hypothetical Scenario: I sell software (lost my job and can't get another) and am battling to feed my family. A likely scenario in SA with BEE etc. You take my software and copy it, give it to all your friends etc. I still don't have food. Of the 10 people in your group, there is a chance that 1/2 of them will buy it, but hell, cause they got it for free, why bother. That is almost the same thing as people hacking into my bank account and taking the money.
 
rwenzori said:
You really are quite wrong. Downloading copyrighted stuff for your own use is not a criminal offence but a civil matter called "copyright infringement". It is not "stealing". It is not "piracy".
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It is stealing, call it what you want, but using someone else's software without paying for it is as good as stealing. Pretending it is something else to make yourself feel better about it does not change the action. People always try and justify what they know is unethical and plain wrong. Hell, what Telkom is doing to SA is criminal. They may not get locked in jail for it but no one will deny its wrong (except the shareholders).
 
Abe said:
While it is not the same as violent crime, how is it any different from fraud? Hypothetical Scenario: I sell software (lost my job and can't get another) and am battling to feed my family. A likely scenario in SA with BEE etc. You take my software and copy it, give it to all your friends etc. I still don't have food. Of the 10 people in your group, there is a chance that 1/2 of them will buy it, but hell, cause they got it for free, why bother. That is almost the same thing as people hacking into my bank account and taking the money.
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It is not fraud. It is not the same as hacking your bank account. At worst it might be copyright infringement. Read the laws. If you don't like the laws, vote in a new govt or go toyi-toyi or something.
 
Abe said:
It is stealing, call it what you want, but using someone else's software without paying for it is as good as stealing. Pretending it is something else to make yourself feel better about it does not change the action. People always try and justify what they know is unethical and plain wrong. Hell, what Telkom is doing to SA is criminal. They may not get locked in jail for it but no one will deny its wrong (except the shareholders).
Click to expand...

In the real world it works differently. My experiences are mentioned at:

http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showpost.php?p=1045710&postcount=54

:)
 
rwenzori said:
It is not fraud. It is not the same as hacking your bank account. At worst it might be copyright infringement. Read the laws. If you don't like the laws, vote in a new govt or go toyi-toyi or something.
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Look at my post to you. It is copyright infringement. That aside, it is wrong. You can hide behind whatever you want.
 
sorCrer1 said:
Always amazes me that people will bitch and moan about the levels of crime in the country while gleefully stealing 150+ GB's of music/porn/movies/series/software, like pigs at a trough!
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It amazes me that people can come up with these flawed arguments. We don't even know what someone downloads. Just because we can't think of it does not mean that there are not legitimate ways to use lots of bandwidth. Browsing alone can easily take over 100MB a day. Then it does not even count sites like YouTube where people post videos for free distribution. How is something that someone gives away theft or how is it theft to give something away?

Besides that most of the stuff on newsgroups are spam or incomplete series posted to make more money and not prevent someone from making money. How is downloading spam theft again? :confused: That doesn't even take into account the amateur pictures posted for free. The majority of porn IS by amateurs. Then there's also the classic nudist photos and I bet they would have something very strong to say about the constitution and their freedom to distribute those photos. :rolleyes:
Abe said:
It is stealing, call it what you want, but using someone else's software without paying for it is as good as stealing. Pretending it is something else to make yourself feel better about it does not change the action. People always try and justify what they know is unethical and plain wrong. Hell, what Telkom is doing to SA is criminal. They may not get locked in jail for it but no one will deny its wrong (except the shareholders).
Click to expand...
That is not true. What Telkom is doing is simply business. You or I may not like it but it is their business and they can run it as they please, even into the ground for all I care. The criminals are the people in charge for allowing an environment where this can take place. They had a responsibility to the country and more than that they had the trust of the majority placed in them. They failed miserably and put their own interests before that. If this was China they would all be shot.
 
Abe said:
Look at my post to you. It is copyright infringement. That aside, it is wrong. You can hide behind whatever you want.
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Well, your ideas of right and wrong are clearly different to mine. I see all this overprotection of intellectual property as part of the ongoing attempt by the developed countries ( who own virtually all of the IP ) to continue raping and extorting wealth from the developing world. IP colonialism maybe. One-way traffic of money. And THAT is wrong. How much of the insane amount of money you must pay for Vista stays in SA?

And I have no need to hide behind anything LOL!
 
rwenzori said:
How much of the insane amount of money you must pay for Vista stays in SA?
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Vista, XP, Office, AutoCad, etc are way overpriced. But then we should be supporting open source alternatives instead of indirectly supporting the companies that rip us off. There is nothing wrong with Open Office yet people will continue to support the MS Office formats by using pirate versions.

My biggest problem with the pirating of software is that employees start using pirate versions of software at the office where those business can well afford to pay the money. That is where the biggest losses to the small development shop occur.
 
Prometheus said:
That is not true. What Telkom is doing is simply business. You or I may not like it but it is their business and they can run it as they please, even into the ground for all I care. The criminals are the people in charge for allowing an environment where this can take place. They had a responsibility to the country and more than that they had the trust of the majority placed in them. They failed miserably and put their own interests before that. If this was China they would all be shot.
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What I meant is that what Telkom are doing is morally wrong. They don't get locked up for it but it's plain wrong.
 
Abe said:
Vista, XP, Office, AutoCad, etc are way overpriced. But then we should be supporting open source alternatives instead of indirectly supporting the companies that rip us off. There is nothing wrong with Open Office yet people will continue to support the MS Office formats by using pirate versions.

My biggest problem with the pirating of software is that employees start using pirate versions of software at the office where those business can well afford to pay the money. That is where the biggest losses to the small development shop occur.
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My problem with that is that no one has the right to say where and how much I can use something that I legally paid for. I already paid enough for my software to use some of it for free. If I have a business I will be happy to pay the amount they ask for windows but no one will keep me from my right to use it on whichever computer I want. I already paid for it and some stupid copy protection will not make me pay for it again.
Abe said:
What I meant is that what Telkom are doing is morally wrong. They don't get locked up for it but it's plain wrong.
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It is not morally wrong. From a business perspective they are just doing what most would do in the same situation. I think far more people will agree that what the government is doing is morally wrong. Morals are completely subjective.
 
Prometheus said:
My problem with that is that no one has the right to say where and how much I can use something that I legally paid for. I already paid enough for my software to use some of it for free.
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Most small crowds don't mind people installing the software on more then one PC. I have no time for the big guys like MS and will support competing software where I can.

If I have a business I will be happy to pay the amount they ask for windows but no one will keep me from my right to use it on whichever computer I want.
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Unfortunately most businesses are different. They will happily let their employees use whatever software they choose (pirate or not). It's that type of thing that really hurts the small guys.

It is not morally wrong. From a business perspective they are just doing what most would do in the same situation. I think far more people will agree that what the government is doing is morally wrong. Morals are completely subjective.
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Its both. Whenever there is a ruling from ICASA that Telkom does not like, they bring out the lawyers. They try to avoid a level playing field as much as possible. Even businesses should be bound by ethics.
 
See unfortunately with that argument Prom, when you buy the software and install it for the first time, you agree to the EULA which generally stipulates where and how often you can install the software. It is a legally binding contract that you enter into with the software company.
 
ToxicBunny said:
See unfortunately with that argument Prom, when you buy the software and install it for the first time, you agree to the EULA which generally stipulates where and how often you can install the software. It is a legally binding contract that you enter into with the software company.
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Are there any local legal precedents on the validity of such EULAs? They are quite controversial it seems from the Wikipedia article at:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EULA

Maybe one should get the supplier to install and to click the "I Agree" button !

Personally I ignore EULAs.
 
I dunno if there are any local precedents about the validity, because they haven't been tested in court so to speak, or at least not that I know of.

I ignore them to usually, but then my software is all bought for me and legal so I don't have to worry
 
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