Bitcoin Thread

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dsi said:
So you have to pay tax on the R95,000..but you haven't sold any of it to rand yet? So I guess you pay tax with zar in your bank account? Now let's say the Lazy Ape NFT you bought for R195,000 crashed 90% so you make a R175500 loss.. now what, keeping in mind you haven't sold any of these crypto holdings to ZAR yet.. SARS pays you back?
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SARS has marked crypto trading as a suspect trade, so any losses are ring-fenced to offset future crypto gains and not your entire income.

Also, I may be mistaken on this: if you are trading crypto, crypto used for trading is seen as trading "stock" or "share", so every tax year you need to declare the value of your trading stock end February vs start of March of the tax year. So let's say you bought BTC for R650k in December 2020, by end February 2021, it was worth R750K, so as trading stock, you realised a 100K gain to your taxable income(minus costs etc) for 2021 without ever selling the BTC. I believe if you hold crypto as trading stock, then yeah, not selling doesn't mean no taxes.
 
Pansyfaust said:
Also, I may be mistaken on this: if you are trading crypto, crypto used for trading is seen as trading "stock" or "share", so every tax year you need to declare the value of your trading stock end February vs start of March of the tax year. So let's say you bought BTC for R650k in December 2020, by end February 2021, it was worth R750K, so as trading stock, you realised a 100K gain to your taxable income(minus costs etc) for 2021 without ever selling the BTC. I believe if you hold crypto as trading stock, then yeah, not selling doesn't mean no taxes.
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Don't think so, you only realise a 100k gain when you sell back to rand. If it's a short-term gain then it's seen as income from trading crypto. If it's a long-term gain then capital gains tax would apply.
 
$BTC bounced off the 200 MA at $46,600 but need needs to hold this support for continuation to $49. Looking good for now. Let's pump it!

pump-btc.gif
 
Either this is an epic bull trap, or the stock to flow model is correct and we'll see $100k btc in the coming months.

Screenshot 2021-08-21 at 06.40.28.png
 
Pansyfaust said:
SARS has marked crypto trading as a suspect trade, so any losses are ring-fenced to offset future crypto gains and not your entire income.

Also, I may be mistaken on this: if you are trading crypto, crypto used for trading is seen as trading "stock" or "share", so every tax year you need to declare the value of your trading stock end February vs start of March of the tax year. So let's say you bought BTC for R650k in December 2020, by end February 2021, it was worth R750K, so as trading stock, you realised a 100K gain to your taxable income(minus costs etc) for 2021 without ever selling the BTC. I believe if you hold crypto as trading stock, then yeah, not selling doesn't mean no taxes.
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I invested in 40k in bitcoin 2017-2019 I have no records of the actual amount invested each time, my present holdings is 0.63 of bitcoin, if I don't sell do I still have to pay the back taxes every year, or could I just pay when I eventually cash up.
 
haroldj said:
I invested in 40k in bitcoin 2017-2019 I have no records of the actual amount invested each time, my present holdings is 0.63 of bitcoin, if I don't sell do I still have to pay the back taxes every year, or could I just pay when I eventually cash up.
Click to expand...

If you haven't sold, then you don't owe any tax, it's just an unrealised gain.

Capital gains from crypto sales

A capital gain is a rise in the value of any asset held, whether it be stocks, real estate, or in this case, ownership of cryptocurrencies. A capital gain is only realised from a tax perspective when the asset is sold.

It is important to differentiate between a short-term gain, where the asset is held for less than a year and taxed at a higher marginal tax rate, and a longer-term gain where the sale will be taxed at the more favourable rate for long-term capital gains.

Here is the generally accepted rule:
  • If you are making profits from trading crypto, this will be deemed as income and taxed at your marginal tax rate (on a sliding scale up to a maximum of 45%);

  • If you buy and hold crypto for an extended period and then sell at a profit, capital gains tax (CGT) will apply (your capital gains gets added to your annual pre-tax income. The CGT rate can range from 7.2% to 18% depending on the tax bracket you’re in.).

Source:
www.moneyweb.co.za

The tax implications of investing in crypto

Heightened scrutiny from the taxman should encourage a buy and hold strategy when it comes to cryptocurrencies.
www.moneyweb.co.za www.moneyweb.co.za
 
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dsi said:
If you haven't sold, then you don't owe any tax, it's just an unrealised gain.

Capital gains from crypto sales

A capital gain is a rise in the value of any asset held, whether it be stocks, real estate, or in this case, ownership of cryptocurrencies. A capital gain is only realised from a tax perspective when the asset is sold.

It is important to differentiate between a short-term gain, where the asset is held for less than a year and taxed at a higher marginal tax rate, and a longer-term gain where the sale will be taxed at the more favourable rate for long-term capital gains.

Here is the generally accepted rule:
  • If you are making profits from trading crypto, this will be deemed as income and taxed at your marginal tax rate (on a sliding scale up to a maximum of 45%);

  • If you buy and hold crypto for an extended period and then sell at a profit, capital gains tax (CGT) will apply (your capital gains gets added to your annual pre-tax income. The CGT rate can range from 7.2% to 18% depending on the tax bracket you’re in.).

Source:
www.moneyweb.co.za

The tax implications of investing in crypto

Heightened scrutiny from the taxman should encourage a buy and hold strategy when it comes to cryptocurrencies.
www.moneyweb.co.za www.moneyweb.co.za
Click to expand...
Just open an account in your kids names how does tax work then?
 
haroldj said:
I invested in 40k in bitcoin 2017-2019 I have no records of the actual amount invested each time, my present holdings is 0.63 of bitcoin, if I don't sell do I still have to pay the back taxes every year, or could I just pay when I eventually cash up.
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So you pay when you eventually cash out.

You will likely pay cgt.

If you have no records you will have 0 expense and the full amount will be a gain. But still cgt.
 
enerdude said:
Bitcoin uses less than half the energy the banking system consumes, according to recent data.
www.coindesk.com

How Much Energy Does Bitcoin Use?

Bitcoin uses less than half the energy the banking system consumes, according to recent data.
www.coindesk.com www.coindesk.com
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How many transactions does Bitcoin process a second, compared to the banking systems?

Let's assume that all traditional banking transactions i.e visa, MasterCard etc would be shifted to the BTC network, how much more miners would the network need to play catch-up? Visa alone does 1700 transactions a second.

Pointless comparison.

www.statista.com

Bitcoin energy consumption 2025| Statista

The average energy consumption for one single Bitcoin transaction in 2025 could equal several hundreds of thousands of VISA card transactions.
www.statista.com www.statista.com
 
Adenoid Hynkel said:
How many transactions does Bitcoin process a second, compared to the banking systems?

Let's assume that all traditional banking transactions i.e visa, MasterCard etc would be shifted to the BTC network, how much more miners would the network need to play catch-up? Visa alone does 1700 transactions a second.

Pointless comparison.

www.statista.com

Bitcoin energy consumption 2025| Statista

The average energy consumption for one single Bitcoin transaction in 2025 could equal several hundreds of thousands of VISA card transactions.
www.statista.com www.statista.com
Click to expand...
Who said anything about moving visa to the bitcoin network. Also you must look at the BIG PICTURE -
physical branches, printing facilities, ATMs, data centers, card machines and secure transport vehicles required to support the fiat currency system.
 
enerdude said:
Who said anything about moving visa to the bitcoin network. Also you must look at the BIG PICTURE -
physical branches, printing facilities, ATMs, data centers, card machines and secure transport vehicles required to support the fiat currency system.
Click to expand...
Let me rephrase. Imagine the BTC network processing the same amount of visa transactions and the like, the energy consumption would be far greater. Numbers are out there. Do the math.
 
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