Black Hole Singularities Are as Inescapable as Expected

Binary_Bark

Forging
Joined
Feb 24, 2016
Messages
42,744
Reaction score
25,247
Location
Midgard
In January 1916, Karl Schwarzschild, a German physicist who was stationed as a soldier on the eastern front, produced the first exact solution to the equations of general relativity, Albert Einstein’s radical, two-month-old theory of gravity. General relativity portrayed gravity not as an attractive force, as it had long been understood, but rather as the effect of curved space and time. Schwarzschild’s solution revealed the curvature of space-time around a stationary ball of matter.

Curiously, Schwarzschild noticed that if this matter were confined within a small enough radius, there would be a point of infinite curvature and density — a “singularity” — at the centre.

Infinities cropping up in physics are usually cause for alarm, and neither Einstein, upon learning of the soldier’s result, nor Schwarzschild himself believed that such objects really exist. But starting in the 1970s, evidence mounted that the universe contains droves of these entities — dubbed “black holes” because their gravity is so strong that nothing going into them, not even light, can come out. The nature of the singularities inside black holes has been a mystery ever since.

 
  • Like
Reactions: OCP
In January 1916, Karl Schwarzschild, a German physicist who was stationed as a soldier on the eastern front, produced the first exact solution to the equations of general relativity, Albert Einstein’s radical, two-month-old theory of gravity. General relativity portrayed gravity not as an attractive force, as it had long been understood, but rather as the effect of curved space and time. Schwarzschild’s solution revealed the curvature of space-time around a stationary ball of matter.

Curiously, Schwarzschild noticed that if this matter were confined within a small enough radius, there would be a point of infinite curvature and density — a “singularity” — at the centre.

Infinities cropping up in physics are usually cause for alarm, and neither Einstein, upon learning of the soldier’s result, nor Schwarzschild himself believed that such objects really exist. But starting in the 1970s, evidence mounted that the universe contains droves of these entities — dubbed “black holes” because their gravity is so strong that nothing going into them, not even light, can come out. The nature of the singularities inside black holes has been a mystery ever since.

Like cosmic hard drives, black holes pack troves of data into compact spaces. But ever since Stephen Hawking calculated in 1974 that these dense spheres of extreme gravity give off heat and fade away, the fate of their stored information has haunted physicists.

The problem is this: The laws of quantum mechanics insist that information about the past is never lost, including the record of whatever fell into a black hole. But Hawking’s calculation contradicted this. He applied both quantum mechanics and Albert Einstein’s theory of gravity to the space around a black hole and found that quantum jitters cause the black hole to emit radiation that’s perfectly random, carrying no information. As this happens the black hole shrinks and eventually disappears.

"nothing going into them, not even light, can come out" vs "black hole to emit radiation"
Huh?
 
So black hole singularities are not inescapable?
They do emit energy, and will eventually die (fade away)?
So black hole singularities are not inescapable?
Correct

will eventually die (fade away)?
Yes, only if they are not feeding.*
lack holes that do not gain mass through other means are expected to shrink and ultimately vanish

Again, I am not a scientist. You can google all the questions you have.
 
Correct


Yes, only if they are not feeding.*

Again, I am not a scientist. You can google all the questions you have.
So the headline of the thread "black-hole-singularities-are-as-inescapable-as-expected" is a load of rubbish?
 
So the headline of the thread "black-hole-singularities-are-as-inescapable-as-expected" is a load of rubbish?
Not sure, you'll need to do some research on it and let us know all the details :P Perhaps the inescapable part is for objects larger than virtual particles. Perhaps the virtual anti-particles takes energy away energy from the black hole itself (edge of the event horizon), not necessarily the singularity, which would make sense because that's what hawking radiation affects. The edge of the black hole, that point just before thing would "fall in".
 
So the headline of the thread "black-hole-singularities-are-as-inescapable-as-expected" is a load of rubbish?

Technically the headline is correct as only radiation that is ejected when matter is absorbed by the singularity is measurable - no matter can escape as far as i understand it.
 
Technically the headline is correct as only radiation that is ejected when matter is absorbed by the singularity is measurable - no matter can escape as far as i understand it.
Then how can they die (fade away with time)?
 
Then how can they die (fade away with time)?

In the 1970s, theoretical physicist Stephen Hawking made a remarkable discovery buried under the complex mathematical intersection of gravity and quantum mechanics: Black holes glow, ever so slightly, and, given enough time, they eventually dissolve.

How does this so-called Hawking Radiation work?

Well, general relativity is a super-complicated mathematical theory. Quantum mechanics is just as complicated. It’s a little unsatisfying to respond to "How?" with "A bunch of math," so here’s the standard explanation: the vacuum of space is filled with virtual particles, little effervescent pairs of particles that pop into and out of existence, stealing some energy from the vacuum to exist for the briefest of moments, only to collide with each other and return to nothingness.

Every once in a while, a pair of these particles pops into existence near an event horizon, with one partner falling in and the other free to escape. Unable to collide and evaporate, the escapee goes on its merry way as a normal non-virtual particle.

Voila: The black hole appears to glow, and in doing so — in doing the work to separate a virtual particle pair and promote one of them into normal status — the black hole gives up some of its own mass. Subtly, slowly, over the eons, black holes dissolve. Not so black anymore, huh?

Sauce: https://www.space.com/34281-do-black-holes-die.html
 
In the 1970s, theoretical physicist Stephen Hawking made a remarkable discovery buried under the complex mathematical intersection of gravity and quantum mechanics: Black holes glow, ever so slightly, and, given enough time, they eventually dissolve.

How does this so-called Hawking Radiation work?

Well, general relativity is a super-complicated mathematical theory. Quantum mechanics is just as complicated. It’s a little unsatisfying to respond to "How?" with "A bunch of math," so here’s the standard explanation: the vacuum of space is filled with virtual particles, little effervescent pairs of particles that pop into and out of existence, stealing some energy from the vacuum to exist for the briefest of moments, only to collide with each other and return to nothingness.

Every once in a while, a pair of these particles pops into existence near an event horizon, with one partner falling in and the other free to escape. Unable to collide and evaporate, the escapee goes on its merry way as a normal non-virtual particle.

Voila: The black hole appears to glow, and in doing so — in doing the work to separate a virtual particle pair and promote one of them into normal status — the black hole gives up some of its own mass. Subtly, slowly, over the eons, black holes dissolve. Not so black anymore, huh?

Sauce: https://www.space.com/34281-do-black-holes-die.html
Yeah sure.
Okay.
Fantastic reasoning.
Brilliant science.

Or a load of BS?
 
Are you an astrophysicist?
nb. I'm not, so your guess is as good as mine :)
You'll need to tailor your answer properly when addressing Ponderer. Just erase everything you've typed and instead write, "God did it". Hawking Radiation? Nah. Doesn't exist. God did it. Black holes? Lol nah, don't exist. It's just god's anus in the sky.
 
  • Like
Reactions: OCP
You'll need to tailor your answer properly when addressing Ponderer. Just erase everything you've typed and instead write, "God did it". Hawking Radiation? Nah. Doesn't exist. God did it. Black holes? Lol nah, don't exist. It's just god's anus in the sky.
Why are you dragging GOD into the thread?
 
You'll need to tailor your answer properly when addressing Ponderer. Just erase everything you've typed and instead write, "God did it". Hawking Radiation? Nah. Doesn't exist. God did it. Black holes? Lol nah, don't exist. It's just god's anus in the sky.
True, why I don't interact with him any more, if he can't understand it or it is not in his favourite fairytale book it is not true.
No use in trying to talk to someone with such ignorance towards science
 
True, why I don't interact with him any more, if he can't understand it or it is not in his favourite fairytale book it is not true.
No use in trying to talk to someone with such ignorance towards science
I am not ignorant of science - I am all for actual/true/real science.
As such, I despise BS/fake science (aka "scientism").
 
I am not ignorant of science - I am all for actual/true/real science.
As such, I despise BS/fake science (aka "scientism").
Scientism is the promotion of science as the best or only objective means by which society should determine normative and epistemological values. The term scientism is generally used critically, implying a cosmetic application of science in unwarranted situations considered not amenable to application of the scientific method or similar scientific standards.

Scientism has nothing to do with "fake science". Whatever that means.
 
Top
Sign up to the MyBroadband newsletter
X