Black professionals not so happy at work

[Conspirator]

Fair enough, the assumption here is that amongst 2000 professionals you'd not be able to find young whites or old blacks

No. He is only stating that the AVERAGE white professional has been in the job-market longer, and consequently job-hoped more often during his career. He never implied that there are no young whites/old blacks in the market.

I still have to be suitably qualified/experienced and should be the best AA candidate to get the job.

And therein lies the problem. You are then "the best AA candidate" and not necessarily "the best candidate".

Look at all the ministers who we all just WISH would job hop, but no, they're stuck there for life , not even the President can get rid of their useless arses.

Now thats funny.

The researchers said: "It can be concluded at a 99% confidence level, that white professionals are significantly more likely to job-hop than black professionals. This means that, statistically, one can disprove the myth and infer that black talent is not significantly more likely to change jobs than other racial counterparts."

The statistician who said that needs to be shot. His conclusion is just plain wrong. He has to adjust the raw data for time. Like they say: Lies, Damn lies and statistics.

btw 16,73% of all statistics are made up. (incl this one)

 

[Lord Anubis]

At the end of the day, if you have the right skills, reputation (built up over years of proven success in what you do) and know the right people, black or white, old or young, you will get a job. The key is to first get a job, then become a specialist at what you do and let as many people in you business sector know who you are...in a matter of years you can pick the job you want.

Most companies who are in trouble and need a professional to solve their problems are quick to overlook your AA profile. Unfortunately that's the risk. You end up working a lot of times in dire circumstances, but the pay is good.

Gone are the day's of the cushy corporate laid back job's....unless you're in gov't/municipal/telskommel hehehehe.

 

[Sarakael]

An IT auditor said: "Every Sunday evening, you have a Carte Blanche moment where you start feeling depressed because you know that tomorrow is Monday and it's back to being this different person."

I'm white and I have the same "Carte Blanche" moment. Except I get it the entire Sunday and I call it Sunday blues. Don't worry buddy fewer than 5% of the population if that looks forward to work on Monday

 

[Syndyre]

Indeed. Its about giving a suitably qualified HDSA an equal opportunity.

Affirmative Action by definition can't provide an equal opportunity, unless you use some sort of government propaganda dictionary, equality would mean that people are considered for jobs based on their skills and qualifications, with no consideration for skin colour.

 

[Bageloo]

I'm white and I have the same "Carte Blanche" moment. Except I get it the entire Sunday and I call it Sunday blues. Don't worry buddy fewer than 5% of the population if that looks forward to work on Monday

I agree work is unpleaseant for everyone. But I think the point he was trying to make is that black people in general have a different culture at home to that which prevails in the corporate world. There's a need to switch the mode from 'corporate to ghetto' and vice versa.

 

[Syndyre]

Indeed. Its about giving a suitably qualified HDSA an equal opportunity.

Affirmative Action by definition can't provide an equal opportunity, unless you use some sort of government propaganda dictionary, equality would mean that people are considered for jobs based on their skills and qualifications, with no consideration for skin colour.

But the results showed that black professionals were significantly more likely to be currently looking for another job, an indication that they were unhappy in their jobs.

How is the first, presumably factual, finding indicative of the second claim? Quite a logical leap.

"If the first claim is allowed to entail the second, there is almost no assault on common sense and common decency that cannot be justified." - George Orwell

Black professionals surveyed believed there was "no clear career planning for them, and they often did not know where they were in their careers and what was required for them to get to the next level. They felt that companies just left them without any guidance or support".

...

"nobody is mentoring black people in companies. They are thrown in the deep end."

This all seems to harken back to a rather idealistic belief that companies should in many ways be how they used to be, almost paternalistic, offering a "job for life" etc. which just isn't the reality anymore for anyone, black or white. People have to come up with their own career plans etc.

They said that, contrary to popular belief, the research found that black professionals are not primarily driven by money. Higher salaries were seen more as a sign of recognition and were also used as a benchmark for success.

How do they determine this, by asking people? Who is actually going to admit that their primary motivation is money, even if it is? Most people will come up with far more noble justifications for their actions.

What happened to critical journalism anyway, the writer seems to have just regurgitated survey results, probably neatly packaged in a press release, without any real analysis of their meaning, possible bias etc.

 

[Bageloo]

Affirmative Action by definition can't provide an equal opportunity, unless you use some sort of government propaganda dictionary, equality would mean that people are considered for jobs based on their skills and qualifications, with no consideration for skin colour.

That's only true in a place where skills, experience and education have not been skewed in favour of one race group.
The govt following after the Aprtheid regime applies AA to restore the balance.
The subsequent gvt will inherit a more balanced society and would therefore not need to intervene.
The process of AA is therefore not only beneficial to the present genration but also for the future generations.
AA, BEE, land restitution, are all part of the reparations arrangements agreed upon during the pre-democracy negotiations. This is not something new or reverse racism dreamt up by the ANC.

 

[Jozi101]

The process of AA is therefore not only beneficial to the present genration but also for the future generations.

And this includes blacks and whites, because without it the current economic growth will not be sustainable. Every country needs to grow it's middle class makeup if it's serious about growth.

 

[Syndyre]

That's only true in a place where skills, experience and education have not been skewed in favour of one race group.
The govt following after the Aprtheid regime applies AA to restore the balance.
The subsequent gvt will inherit a more balanced society and would therefore not need to intervene.
The process of AA is therefore not only beneficial to the present genration but also for the future generations.
AA, BEE, land restitution, are all part of the reparations arrangements agreed upon during the pre-democracy negotiations. This is not something new or reverse racism dreamt up by the ANC.

The point is social engineering never works, as Apartheid itself proved. I just don't see why BEE/AA etc. are more likely to be successful because their goals are seen as more noble. To be clear I'm not trying to create a moral equivalence between Apartheid and BEE/AA etc. I'm just saying these grand schemes never seem to work in practice and I think that enforcing true equality, coupled with the economic growth that was inevitable after the opening up of the country, democracy etc. would have resulted in a rapid rise of a black middle class, there may have been a few less major well-connected BEE beneficiaries like Tokyo Sexwale etc. but otherwise I think the process would have been the same, albeit slower and there would have been a lot less hostility and other problems associated with it.

Reality dictates that you have to look after the sectors of your society that have the most capital, qualifications etc. regardless of race because these are the people that have both the most opportunity to move or emigrate if they choose to and are also the people that are most essential to driving economic growth in the country as a whole, I think the current policies have been pretty detrimental to that, whether its politically expedient to view issues that way or not.

 

[Bageloo]

....would have resulted in a rapid rise of a black middle class, there may have been a few less major well-connected BEE beneficiaries like Tokyo Sexwale etc. but otherwise I think the process would have been the same, albeit slower and there would have been a lot less hostility and other problems associated with it.

Everyone is in business to make money not friends. I don't see how white businesses would willingly open up to black partners. To prove my point transformation has met with resistance from almost all sectors.
Tokyo Sexwale might be one of the few that are connected and benefitting more from BEE but if you look at the where they are investing their money you'd realise that in the end poor black people still benefit. The process of BEE is not perfect but rather than dismissing the concept let's look at the ways to implement it wisely without causing alienation...

 

[Syndyre]

Everyone is in business to make money not friends. I don't see how white businesses would willingly open up to black partners. To prove my point transformation has met with resistance from almost all sectors.
Tokyo Sexwale might be one of the few that are connected and benefitting more from BEE but if you look at the where they are investing their money you'd realise that in the end poor black people still benefit. The process of BEE is not perfect but rather than dismissing the concept let's look at the ways to implement it wisely without causing alienation...

By saying people are in business to make money not friends you prove my point though, people would hire the best and ultimately the most profitable candidate for the job, be they black or white. As black buying power increased, particularly through areas like the civil service it would become more important to have black people on board and working for you etc, thereby creating more jobs and starting a cycle. Transformation at the moment is resisted because due to the way its being implemented by government its a net cost to businesses, whether that cost is justified depends on your viewpoint but it is a cost and it does to an extent discourage investment etc. How are Tokyo Sexwale's investments more beneficial to poor black people than anyone else's?

 

[Bageloo]

By saying people are in business to make money not friends you prove my point though, people would hire the best and ultimately the most profitable candidate for the job, be they black or white. As black buying power increased, particularly through areas like the civil service it would become more important to have black people on board and working for you etc, thereby creating more jobs and starting a cycle. Transformation at the moment is resisted because due to the way its being implemented by government its a net cost to businesses, whether that cost is justified depends on your viewpoint but it is a cost and it does to an extent discourage investment etc. How are Tokyo Sexwale's investments more beneficial to poor black people than anyone else's?

Consortiums like Mvelaphanda and Afriphalm are broad-based entities with a thousands of shareholders some of which have invested as little as R2000.

 

[Skeptik]

Everyone is in business to make money not friends. I don't see how white businesses would willingly open up to black partners. To prove my point transformation has met with resistance from almost all sectors.
Tokyo Sexwale might be one of the few that are connected and benefitting more from BEE but if you look at the where they are investing their money you'd realise that in the end poor black people still benefit. The process of BEE is not perfect but rather than dismissing the concept let's look at the ways to implement it wisely without causing alienation...

I think you have to ponder WHY transformation is not popular ... then you will understand. Once you have resolved that problem, things will be much easier. The trouble is that there is a very high-handed attitude from government. This just puts people's backs up even more.

 

[Conspirator]

Consortiums like Mvelaphanda and Afriphalm are broad-based entities with a thousands of shareholders some of which have invested as little as R2000.

Indeed, but those that need upliftment don't have R2000, while those that don't need the help can put a couple o' million into it. It is however WAY better than the early BEE bull**** transaction where a single person scores millions.

The entire BEE concept is a good idea, but the practical implementation is just so damn f*cked up. Try explaining to someone from Europe why he is subjected to AA/BEE(eg. not being allowed to invest in a specific scheme).

Regarding AA: I think the benefit will be in the next generation. If the black execs send their kids to expensive schools, then the next generation will be a lot better off. If that means accepting the occasional unqualified/incompetent person in a high position for a generation then so be it.

This is not something new or reverse racism

Weird coincidence - Today I came across the clause in the constitution about the right not to be discrimination against (While studying labour law). Kinda weird how they fitted AA into it. It says one is not allowed to discriminate based on race, religion blah blah. But then it makes a distinction between "unjust discrimination" and other non-"unjust discrimination". I would have thought that they could come up with something a bit more eloquent.

The point is social engineering never works, as Apartheid itself proved.

? Apartheid managed to skew the wealth distribution quite a bit, which was their aim. Sure the political system died, but as far the the wealth goes they achieved their goal. There is no reason why moving the wealth back should not work (hopefully with less force).