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Gunny
Expert Member
As you do with MS products but you dnt have annual licensing fee. Wander if someone is getting kickbacks ?
MS v Linux (And not the other way round)
I am a Linux & M$ user, and my 2c is as follows:
M$ is 1 company that relies on publicity to ensure it growth .. yada yada.. etc.. So it is run as a company & rightly so. Its not a case of apples vs apples.
Now Linux, in all it glorious flavours, does not belong to 1 company, which is the beauty, but also the .. umm... downfall, IF we are comparing apples to apples.
Now that in mind, I have not seen a mass media advert from Novell or Mandriva, or Xandros.. or any other linux distro to compare. This may be because (and I hate to say this) they just are interested, or willing to tackle the market from that angle, or whatever reason that they arent marketing in such a manner.
Stick with me, I am getting to a point....
Now, as I said, I use both OS's .. begrudgingly M$ & gladly LINUX (SuSE to be exact)
The pitfalls I see in LINUX... yes, it isnt a ".. go buy software at a retailer, take home & install software platform.." but that being said, is also the impression that people (you & I & our mothers & our bosses & co workers) all have. Now, and everyone who knows linux will back me here.....
If people can see past the b*llsh*t that M$ & its serious user advocates blow up in our faces, you will see that for every dumb, exciting, fantastic or just plain software ever produced, marketed & sold (operative word) to the public through suppliers, for M$, there is a free (at least) alternative that not only is most often included with your LINUX distro of choice, but freely available for download.
People in general, just DONT WANT TO see the advantages of going open source. Now, if all of us 30 + year olds started with LINUX, instead of DOS & every other terrible software that was ever spewed from M$, where would the world be today? Would M$ have the foot hold it does? I KNOW it wouldnt. It just cannot & will not out perform LINUX ever.
Now the ranting has gone on for a while now, but of course, the surface hasnt even been scratched, I would do a pro & con comparison on Windblows v LINUX, but every stoopid pimple faced M$ user will cry... " But it is biased.." purely because making people believe that by buying M$, they are doing the right thing.
Do I hate M$? Absolutely....... The idea that their over the top, lavish buildings, decor & finishings are a result of our ignorange in believing their BS propoganda. (Your money which you paid for any M$ product, which you DONT EVEN OWN)
Not only are they not interested in 'looking out for the small man' but they are pretty blatant about the fact that.. well, you need to spend money to spend some more money... : http://www.microsoft.com/windowsvista/getready/upgradeinfo.mspx
I see that as a insult, and interpret it as : You will need to fork out $$ to buy a machine to run our software that you will need to fork out more $$ for.
Hell, my attitude is quite simple.... but I will restain myself from filling in the 4 & 3 letter words.
Now that I am trying to end this rant... I am willing to do a simple little test, that if anyone has managed to read this post to the end may be interested in?
I will install M$ XP PRO with SP2, just like that, on a spare box at my house. I will post the IP address & challenge (hahahahahahahaha) any hacker to, well, crack the phenominal system.. do what you like to the software on the box.....
Then 5 minutes later.. (coz I am sure thats how long it will take..) I will then install SuSE 10.1 basic install & offer the same challenge. I think just that little excercise might enlight some die hard M$ users about their OS of choice.
Rememebr also, that to make the transition to LINUX, is not the lowly clerks decicion, it is the decision of that same pimple faced geek who decided that after being brainwashed that getting an M$ diploma or specialising in M$ would secure him a job earning $$$$$$$$, now with LINUX in the contender ring, they are threatened.
So in finishing, M$ does blow chunks, LINUX does rule, its unfortunately the M$ certified fools who wont propogate the change. But my son & daughter also use LINUX & perhaps the generation that follows them will be wiser.
Did I mention security issues, virus's, High end PC spec requirements? I must have been talking about M$...
I am a Linux & M$ user, and my 2c is as follows:
M$ is 1 company that relies on publicity to ensure it growth .. yada yada.. etc.. So it is run as a company & rightly so. Its not a case of apples vs apples.
Now Linux, in all it glorious flavours, does not belong to 1 company, which is the beauty, but also the .. umm... downfall, IF we are comparing apples to apples.
Now that in mind, I have not seen a mass media advert from Novell or Mandriva, or Xandros.. or any other linux distro to compare. This may be because (and I hate to say this) they just are interested, or willing to tackle the market from that angle, or whatever reason that they arent marketing in such a manner.
Stick with me, I am getting to a point....
Now, as I said, I use both OS's .. begrudgingly M$ & gladly LINUX (SuSE to be exact)
The pitfalls I see in LINUX... yes, it isnt a ".. go buy software at a retailer, take home & install software platform.." but that being said, is also the impression that people (you & I & our mothers & our bosses & co workers) all have. Now, and everyone who knows linux will back me here.....
If people can see past the b*llsh*t that M$ & its serious user advocates blow up in our faces, you will see that for every dumb, exciting, fantastic or just plain software ever produced, marketed & sold (operative word) to the public through suppliers, for M$, there is a free (at least) alternative that not only is most often included with your LINUX distro of choice, but freely available for download.
People in general, just DONT WANT TO see the advantages of going open source. Now, if all of us 30 + year olds started with LINUX, instead of DOS & every other terrible software that was ever spewed from M$, where would the world be today? Would M$ have the foot hold it does? I KNOW it wouldnt. It just cannot & will not out perform LINUX ever.
Now the ranting has gone on for a while now, but of course, the surface hasnt even been scratched, I would do a pro & con comparison on Windblows v LINUX, but every stoopid pimple faced M$ user will cry... " But it is biased.." purely because making people believe that by buying M$, they are doing the right thing.
Do I hate M$? Absolutely....... The idea that their over the top, lavish buildings, decor & finishings are a result of our ignorange in believing their BS propoganda. (Your money which you paid for any M$ product, which you DONT EVEN OWN)
Not only are they not interested in 'looking out for the small man' but they are pretty blatant about the fact that.. well, you need to spend money to spend some more money... : http://www.microsoft.com/windowsvista/getready/upgradeinfo.mspx
I see that as a insult, and interpret it as : You will need to fork out $$ to buy a machine to run our software that you will need to fork out more $$ for.
Hell, my attitude is quite simple.... but I will restain myself from filling in the 4 & 3 letter words.
Now that I am trying to end this rant... I am willing to do a simple little test, that if anyone has managed to read this post to the end may be interested in?
I will install M$ XP PRO with SP2, just like that, on a spare box at my house. I will post the IP address & challenge (hahahahahahahaha) any hacker to, well, crack the phenominal system.. do what you like to the software on the box.....
Then 5 minutes later.. (coz I am sure thats how long it will take..) I will then install SuSE 10.1 basic install & offer the same challenge. I think just that little excercise might enlight some die hard M$ users about their OS of choice.
Rememebr also, that to make the transition to LINUX, is not the lowly clerks decicion, it is the decision of that same pimple faced geek who decided that after being brainwashed that getting an M$ diploma or specialising in M$ would secure him a job earning $$$$$$$$, now with LINUX in the contender ring, they are threatened.
So in finishing, M$ does blow chunks, LINUX does rule, its unfortunately the M$ certified fools who wont propogate the change. But my son & daughter also use LINUX & perhaps the generation that follows them will be wiser.
Did I mention security issues, virus's, High end PC spec requirements? I must have been talking about M$...
ActivateD
Expert Member
Amen!!!
For a long time linux suffered from being hard to install. And if you wanted to upgrade or add new software you had to download an endless stream of obscurely named files to try to get it to work. Ordinary people don't want or care about these sort of hassles. Given the choice between flawed software they can just install and secure software that requires advanced necromancy they'll pick the quick and easy route.
For many things there just aren't decent free or open source alternatives. Things like Open Office have come a long way, but v1.x was trash and rightly put a lot of people off.
I think that typical administrative staff can be given any OS as long as the software that goes with it is good. These are people who don't configure their own machines so it doesn't matter what happens behind the scenes.
For many things there just aren't decent free or open source alternatives. Things like Open Office have come a long way, but v1.x was trash and rightly put a lot of people off.
I think that typical administrative staff can be given any OS as long as the software that goes with it is good. These are people who don't configure their own machines so it doesn't matter what happens behind the scenes.
Windows sucks. Linux sucks. I'll be the first to concede that. But I still love my Kubuntu (Linux) setup. There are thousands of reasons for this, and Open Source in general:
The freedom. I can freely give copies to my friends and acqaintances, without worrying about violating some law or EULA. Thanks to them being the dominant player in commercial software for – how many? – years, Microsoft has bred this culture of apathetically accepting paying through your teeth for software, which has, in MS' case, well-disguised mediocrity. A while back I burned a CD full of OS software for a friend who doesn't have a decent enough internet connection (provided with courtesy by Telkom; read dialup) to download MB's of data. I can't recall exactly, but there was something wrong with the CD, at which another friend remarked, “That's what happens when you pirate software.” Ironic, as OS is arguably actually to an extent the cure for software piracy.
The price. Despite what lies Microsoft might be trying (and they are, thanks to their boundless financial means, apparently succeeding in some sectors) to propagate, OS software is a 100% free. In the case of Ed/K/Ubuntu, you don't even have to pay bandwidth costs for downloading it, you can have them ship CD's to you for free. The argument that you have to pay for support is also feeble at best. If you are implementing some form of Open Source, and specifically Linux, in any large organisation or corporation, you are going to need a staff of people to maintain it. Exactly the same can be said for proprietary software, and specifically MS (Windows). The difference is that in the case of proprietary software, you pay for the software and the support.
There exists this notion that proprietary software is vastly superior to Open Source, to such a degree that people believe that you only use it when you can't afford the authentic Microsoft alternative. While I concede that, thanks to the large sums of money people pay for these software, proprietary software makers have the means to develop software which are better rounded off and with a few extra features, 90% percent of people never use any of those feautures. Take word processors. Everyone insists on MS Word, but then the only thing they ever do is type 1-page documents. They barely manage to master changing the font and size, stuff like alignment and bold, italic and underline (all made idiot-proof by obvious icons), but nothing else. They struggle to make graphs, use spreadsheets, master documents etc. and never even discover the other features, yet people insist on paying for the most expensive one out there. I have used Open Office for years, although it did seem rather crappy in its earlier days. I am yet to discover something I can't do with it.
Back to Linux, as I've said it sucks. But lets look at Windows, which is commonly categorised by some as a virus. A clean install of Windows, and what do you get. A mediocre assortment of software, starting with an inept browser, a featureless word editor, and a bunch of other outdated software. Do a clean install of Windows, and see how long you have to struggle to get the basics working, i.e. printer, network card, graphics, sound, dvd, etc. So, arguing that Windows is a little angel that works perfectly is evidently untrue.
Linux is a struggle too. But there are several angles to this. It is unfair to compare it to Windows, as most PC's come with it and all the drivers etc. preinstalled, and, as such, does not constitute much more of a struggle, than to plug in all the colour-coded cables. Also, Linux would obviously also be a struggle for someone who has been made Windows-literate, but computer-illiterate by Microsoft for several years. Linux constitutes a minority of the PC Operating System arena. It follows that there is going to be a lack of hardware support, by mentioned hardware makers, simply because they prefer to cater for the bigger Microsoft market.
So Linux has some shortcomings, most of which are not its fault. What it comes down to is that I prefer to struggle with something I didn't have to pay for, than something you paid such an obscene amount for, that you, rightfully, expect it to work perfectly. Besides, struggling with Linux is fun
.
Of course, this is coming from an, slightly hipocritical (since my favourite browser, Opera, is proprietary), ignorant 15-year old, so please ignore.
The freedom. I can freely give copies to my friends and acqaintances, without worrying about violating some law or EULA. Thanks to them being the dominant player in commercial software for – how many? – years, Microsoft has bred this culture of apathetically accepting paying through your teeth for software, which has, in MS' case, well-disguised mediocrity. A while back I burned a CD full of OS software for a friend who doesn't have a decent enough internet connection (provided with courtesy by Telkom; read dialup) to download MB's of data. I can't recall exactly, but there was something wrong with the CD, at which another friend remarked, “That's what happens when you pirate software.” Ironic, as OS is arguably actually to an extent the cure for software piracy.
The price. Despite what lies Microsoft might be trying (and they are, thanks to their boundless financial means, apparently succeeding in some sectors) to propagate, OS software is a 100% free. In the case of Ed/K/Ubuntu, you don't even have to pay bandwidth costs for downloading it, you can have them ship CD's to you for free. The argument that you have to pay for support is also feeble at best. If you are implementing some form of Open Source, and specifically Linux, in any large organisation or corporation, you are going to need a staff of people to maintain it. Exactly the same can be said for proprietary software, and specifically MS (Windows). The difference is that in the case of proprietary software, you pay for the software and the support.
There exists this notion that proprietary software is vastly superior to Open Source, to such a degree that people believe that you only use it when you can't afford the authentic Microsoft alternative. While I concede that, thanks to the large sums of money people pay for these software, proprietary software makers have the means to develop software which are better rounded off and with a few extra features, 90% percent of people never use any of those feautures. Take word processors. Everyone insists on MS Word, but then the only thing they ever do is type 1-page documents. They barely manage to master changing the font and size, stuff like alignment and bold, italic and underline (all made idiot-proof by obvious icons), but nothing else. They struggle to make graphs, use spreadsheets, master documents etc. and never even discover the other features, yet people insist on paying for the most expensive one out there. I have used Open Office for years, although it did seem rather crappy in its earlier days. I am yet to discover something I can't do with it.
Back to Linux, as I've said it sucks. But lets look at Windows, which is commonly categorised by some as a virus. A clean install of Windows, and what do you get. A mediocre assortment of software, starting with an inept browser, a featureless word editor, and a bunch of other outdated software. Do a clean install of Windows, and see how long you have to struggle to get the basics working, i.e. printer, network card, graphics, sound, dvd, etc. So, arguing that Windows is a little angel that works perfectly is evidently untrue.
Linux is a struggle too. But there are several angles to this. It is unfair to compare it to Windows, as most PC's come with it and all the drivers etc. preinstalled, and, as such, does not constitute much more of a struggle, than to plug in all the colour-coded cables. Also, Linux would obviously also be a struggle for someone who has been made Windows-literate, but computer-illiterate by Microsoft for several years. Linux constitutes a minority of the PC Operating System arena. It follows that there is going to be a lack of hardware support, by mentioned hardware makers, simply because they prefer to cater for the bigger Microsoft market.
So Linux has some shortcomings, most of which are not its fault. What it comes down to is that I prefer to struggle with something I didn't have to pay for, than something you paid such an obscene amount for, that you, rightfully, expect it to work perfectly. Besides, struggling with Linux is fun
.Of course, this is coming from an, slightly hipocritical (since my favourite browser, Opera, is proprietary), ignorant 15-year old, so please ignore.
I'm no fan of Microsoft or Windows, but all the security in the world doesn't mean much if you can't run your software.Did I mention security issues, virus's, High end PC spec requirements? I must have been talking about M$...
High-end PC requirements?
In general on Windows these things just work. However Linux has come a long way and most things driver-related do just work.But lets look at Windows, which is commonly categorised by some as a virus. A clean install of Windows, and what do you get. A mediocre assortment of software, starting with an inept browser, a featureless word editor, and a bunch of other outdated software. Do a clean install of Windows, and see how long you have to struggle to get the basics working, i.e. printer, network card, graphics, sound, dvd, etc. So, arguing that Windows is a little angel that works perfectly is evidently untrue.
Linux is a struggle too. But there are several angles to this. It is unfair to compare it to Windows, as most PC's come with it and all the drivers etc. preinstalled, and, as such, does not constitute much more of a struggle, than to plug in all the colour-coded cables. Also, Linux would obviously also be a struggle for someone who has been made Windows-literate, but computer-illiterate by Microsoft for several years. Linux constitutes a minority of the PC Operating System arena. It follows that there is going to be a lack of hardware support, by mentioned hardware makers, simply because they prefer to cater for the bigger Microsoft market.
So Linux has some shortcomings, most of which are not its fault. What it comes down to is that I prefer to struggle with something I didn't have to pay for, than something you paid such an obscene amount for, that you, rightfully, expect it to work perfectly. Besides, struggling with Linux is fun
Of course, this is coming from an, slightly hipocritical (since my favourite browser, Opera, is proprietary), ignorant 15-year old, so please ignore.
An ex-Opera user. Once they made it clear they had no interest in fixing its couple of glaring defects I switched to Firefox.
A big strength of Linux is that there is no registry. Microsoft should just admit the registry was a bad idea and get rid of it.
The only machine I have where Windows came pre-installed is my laptop and re-installing to get a clean install was a breeze.
Is anyone really stupid enough to fall for this argument? Who actually thinks this is free with commercial software?
Encouraging? It should be mandated in all situations where no clear case can be made for using a commercial alternative.
And the billions wasted on unnecessary commercial software could be poured into local enhancements to open source software.
RichardP
Banned
I guess whoever wrote the article doesnt get Government tender documents.... the ones I have read for new systems say 'Will Run on SuSE Linux'
but the problem isnt government... its If you sent a tender Document to for Example BCX and say 'Develop for Linux' .. the result from BCX will allways be "But MS is so much better" as companies like BCX etc etc dont have the skills to develop robust Linux apps, and are brainwashed in to a midset.
The biggest problem with Open Source is that it doesnt bribe govt officials, M$ on the other hand....
but the problem isnt government... its If you sent a tender Document to for Example BCX and say 'Develop for Linux' .. the result from BCX will allways be "But MS is so much better" as companies like BCX etc etc dont have the skills to develop robust Linux apps, and are brainwashed in to a midset.
The biggest problem with Open Source is that it doesnt bribe govt officials, M$ on the other hand....
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I too have been an advocate of OOo and nowadays, I send my native OD* docs all over the place to people I need to send it (business or otherwise) When the response is " I cant open it " I reply by saying " You need to upgrade to OOo ".
After the endless frustrations, I finally concede & offer to export to PDF or txt for them. Not to M$ format.
Have a poll
Have a poll to see what percentage of us are using opensource to some degree.
I changed to Linux and I am having real fun. It's a great new adventure.
M$oft have gone past the point of being a reasonably priced operating system and will not grow in proportion to the rate of new users coming on stream
Have a poll to see what percentage of us are using opensource to some degree.
I changed to Linux and I am having real fun. It's a great new adventure.
M$oft have gone past the point of being a reasonably priced operating system and will not grow in proportion to the rate of new users coming on stream
I smell a rat
Non-monopolistic software giant doing deals with incorruptible govt. Yeah sure. You only have to look at the rest of public sector for the answer. It's only taxpayer money - plenty more where that comes from...
Non-monopolistic software giant doing deals with incorruptible govt. Yeah sure. You only have to look at the rest of public sector for the answer. It's only taxpayer money - plenty more where that comes from...