Broadband for all in SA?

This is Africa please do'nt compare with Australia which is Run by Whites, so keep dreaming.
 
tommy57 said:
This is Africa please do'nt compare with Australia which is Run by Whites, so keep dreaming.
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Racism is schism. Whites are the ones who screwed this country up - and we were forgiven.
 
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i was gonna comment but then the thread got derailed..... meh
 
tommy57 said:
This is Africa please do'nt compare with Australia which is Run by Whites, so keep dreaming.
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Quoted for truth ! Anybody who argues does so from ignorance and is obviously yet to become a victim of affirmative action for themselves.
(Synaesthesia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two_wrongs_make_a_right - Basic Logic mate. Time to wake up and smell the coffee. The very people you think 'forgave' us are now destroying everything including their own future. It's time for a change of agenda - it's time for you to remove those horse-blinders from the sides of your eyes so you can see the whole picture, not just the one Julius wants you to see until he takes you out too.)
 
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Apartheid was a heinous crime - it never invested in the vast majority of our populace for the simple reason that they where the wrong skin colour, creating all the social problems we have today - a vast mass of unemployable, uneducated people.
 
Synaesthesia said:
Apartheid was a heinous crime - it never invested in the vast majority of our populace for the simple reason that they where the wrong skin colour, creating all the social problems we have today - a vast mass of unemployable, uneducated people.
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Nobody here argued that apartheid was a good thing (let alone mentioned it at all), we're talking about TODAY not 20 years ago. If you're right that apartheid is what caused the majority to be uneducated, then you of all people should be advocating that THOSE VERY PEOPLE are NOT the ones who should be running the show today in the first place, Not so? How can you fix a problem of poverty by placing uneducated people FROM that poverty into power? Apartheid is gone and gone to stay, 'white people' are not a 'threat'; this type of paranoia is therefore IRRATIONALLY unfounded. Indeed, Julius failed woodwork miserably, yet he's inline to become the next president of our country... how does this make you feel as an educated person concerned about the fate of your own country which you claim to love as I do?
 
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You can't fix 200+ years of screwing a country up in just 20 years. The wounds don't just heal. To make it worse a lot of people still persist with racist ideologies.

The people in government are there because of democracy, and because of Apartheid. Our country is stable, growing economically, and free. Sure it's got a lot of problems but it could have been a lot worse.
 
Considering the amount of tenders being given away, you would be clever to say that money could have built a world class broadband system in south Africa.
 
Synaesthesia said:
The people in government are there because of democracy, and because of Apartheid. Our country is stable, growing economically, and free. Sure it's got a lot of problems but it could have been a lot worse.
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You realise you just evaded all my valid points in favour of what seems to clearly be a biased closed-minded delusion of pure ignorance?

If you honestly think (and are happy about) the fact that the people in our government are there because of (what I think is really a false -) 'democracy' (or in Julius's words: 'the struggle') RATHER than their credentials and what they can offer the country in terms of their skills -> work, then it's no surprise that you can't see how the country is in great danger of following the course of the likes of Zimbabwe. They're not in government to RECEIVE as a gift of democracy - they're there to SERVE and be paid from hard-earned taxes only AFTER they do their JOB for which they shouldn't even have if not QUALIFIED to have in the first place.

Similarly, the people of the nation who comprise this democracy ought to VOTE not with their hearts or by the colour of their skin, but with their BRAINS so that we can get the smartest people into the best positions to bring about that GROWING ECONOMY that you seem to want as I do - not so? Like I said, apartheid is over - there's no reason now for any racial preference or prejudice (and like I say, that EXISTS today under the authorization of none other than the ANC themselves: affirmative action AKA RACIAL DISCRIMINATION - again: two wrongs don't make a right): the way forward is to eradicate corruption and put the right people to the jobs, REGARDLESS of their skin colour, and hence you're the racist to compromise this by suggesting otherwise !

The ANC has proven its incompetence, and it's time for a change if we want the best for our country, or else yeah (back on to the topic), we won't be seeing 'broadband for all' in our beloved country any time soon, at least not while Julius is blowing R100mil on a party or his houses and cars, paid for by our money which should be going towards those dilapidated roads, healthcare, EDUCATION, housing, TELECOMMUNICATIONS, water, electricity - all the things which are in fact spiralling out of control with corruption and destruction, in the country that you seem deluded into thinking is moving forwards at its optimal rate... Clearly that could not be any further from the truth. The government is responsible for all these public services, and the current one (the ANC) has plainly FAILED.

As you said, the majority are uneducated... perhaps apartheid is largely to blame, I'd be happy to concede that, but then YOU have to also concede/admit that then these VOTES coming from this MAJORITY can't be considered reliable after all if they are in fact UNEDUCATED? It's therefore not a true democracy at all, but rather powered/corrupted by racist motive. The purpose of democratic voting is to allow the public to select a governing body which will most promisingly bring the country to a better state in the shortest period of time, and not to bring about REVENGE for apartheid -- yet these people are ABUSING their RIGHT to freely VOTE by allowing race to be the driving force for their vote. An ideal democracy assumes that the MAJORITY of people will have selected the most beneficial solution, but how is that possible when they aren't making an educated vote? Indeed RACISM is in fact voting for the ANC when you're a starving black person living under a highway bridge [an actual reality in SA], because you're choosing colour over what would stand a much greater chance of getting you OUT of that mess in the first place... THAT'S why we're a 3rd world country filled with crime and therefore CAUSING people (such as myself) who cannot tolerate such incompetence, to lose their patience.

Escaping inevitable turmoil can only happen if the majority is enlightened out of the ignorant state in which they currently reside. We can only hope that the uneducated masses wake up to the reality and lose THEIR racial tendencies and VOTE for the party that doesn't just repeatedly break its promises, more predictably so every 4 years (You'd think that 20 years after apparent democracy, you'd see a steady rate of IMPROVEMENT - yet it's getting worse?). Well perhaps when we become a TRUE democracy with an educated majority, then we'll see Telkom's copper cables between phone poles where they belong, rather than in the scrapyards thanks to a government that's incompetent at doing what it's SUPPOSED to do; until then, face the reality and stop pretending that we're something that we're not. It's not whining negativity, it's being strong enough to FACE THE FACTS rather than trying to convince yourself that it's all good when that's clearly not the case - because that equates to lies and ignorance, which in turn brings about even more destruction/corruption.

How about we strive for REAL FAIRNESS, TRUTH, and actually WORK to make it GOOD instead of just ignoring the problem, so that at the end of the day we'll be justified in being proud about something that's REALLY THERE to be proud about!!!

Personally, I'm not yet educated beyond a non-university-exemption matric; so seriously, if even I can see these basic truths about our political state, then there's no reason why we should consider this a mammoth task to overcome, really? ;)
 
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Sorry I didn't see the update you made to your post. I agree with you wholeheartedly.
 
I dont think our government is dumb. They just tring to eradicate poverty. And broadband is a part of that. I dont think they giving that part as much considertation it needs.. Maybe they are who knows
 
Socio-economic climates in the two countries are to different to make a valid comparison.
 
Thats all good and well, but look at the tax structure of Aus and see where the money is coming form. Personally i`d rather pay for my connection then pay their insanely high taxes to support the whole population.
 
confused2009 said:
I dont think our government is dumb. They just tring to eradicate poverty. And broadband is a part of that. I dont think they giving that part as much considertation it needs.. Maybe they are who knows
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Well said! Nail on the head - our government doesn't seem to (which probably really translates to 'they simply DO NOT') take that seriously enough (I mean you don't need to look further than how long Nyanda was left minister of telecommunications despite his complete lack of contribution, or the current dismal state of Telkom, or the fact that Keyna has FTTH before us, [EDIT: Or the fact that Zuma didn't mention a thing about telecoms/broadband promises in yesterday's state of the nation address] to see that... It's all related to the same point: we're behind in terms of broadband, and the guys who are in positions to change that are putting their own pockets first!).

Broadband is a key essential in bringing poverty to an end! Broadband will help educate greatly, and it's surely THEN - when the majority population becomes educated - that things will really start to fall into place for other zones. Consider how every well established/developed/educated nation has a robust broadband network to compliment it. Surely then we could conversely help achieve such development for our society as a whole by focusing on mimicking what makes these other nations successful - ie: build a similar broadband network, with the same level of accessibility, to then bring about that equilibrium result via shared information.

Oh yeah, and of course logically, if the government is "trying to eradicate poverty", and they KNOW that "broadband is part of that", and yet still "they're neglecting broadband", then of course it follows conclusively that they ARE DUMB after all as a result of that negligence... Or maybe just too greedy? Lazy perhaps? Or just pure incompetence?... How about a nice blend of all of those together? Ah yes, now that sounds about right to me! This is why voting for these fools to remain in power for another term makes you even more of an idiot than they are, especially if you want the best for the country you live in... oh yeah, unless "the best" for you (have to consider that one man's meat is another man's poison) is "irrationality and anarchy to the max"... well, for me it's most certainly not, and it's on the basis of that line of thought, that, well... you know...
 
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We all know our goverment is useless but so are those that are too lazy to vote. As an example, of my family (5 adults) and my family in law (another 5 adults) only 3 of us voted. The other 7 didn't but still continue to moan about the state of the country. That's just my immediate family and I imagine it's the same everywhere else in South Africa. Let's all stop moaning and rather use that energy to motivate our friends and family to vote for change at the next general election. A few hours at the polls could mean years of postive change for this country.

Let's all stop talking a good game and play one rather.

"Yes we can!" Ring a bell?
 
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When are these seemingly permanently confused journalists going to stop talking about Infraco and Broadband in the same sentence (yes, I know it's in their name, but it's only there to perpetuate the confusion)? Broadband refers to an access network, for most practical purposes, not a national backbone.

Infraco's mandate is very, very clear. They have to build a national backbone fibre network using taxpayers' money to compete against private operators. The mandate forbids them from building any kind of access network, including, note, any kind of broadband access network. They have also repeatedly made it clear that they will not build metro networks at all, but simply connect one or two POPs in a city to similar POPs in another city.

Infraco does not have an ECS licence, but only an ECNS licence, and MUST therefore sell their wholesale backbone bandwidth to other operators, including operators of broadband access networks. To sell services to businesses or the public, they would require AN ACCESS NETWORK, an ECS licence, and an entire retail business that simply does not exist.

If you're wondering what parastatal is supposed to build a broadband access network for everyone in the country, that's Sentech, remember? Spot the problem.

NBN is nothing at all like Infraco. NBN is what you would get if you nationalised Telkom's copper access network - no backbone, no services, just the access network that is supposed to be unbundled during LLU. Unbundling the operator (Telstra in the Oz case, Telkom here) is much, much more effective than unbundling the local loop, since it potentially creates a proper wholesale broadband access company that will not favour one telco over another. Infraco's relevance to this is zero... Telkom is what needs to be broken up.
 
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ads said:
When are these seemingly permanently confused journalists going to stop talking about Infraco and Broadband in the same sentence (yes, I know it's in their name, but it's only there to perpetuate the confusion)? Broadband refers to an access network, for most practical purposes, not a national backbone.

Infraco's mandate is very, very clear. They have to build a national backbone fibre network using taxpayers' money to compete against private operators. The mandate forbids them from building any kind of access network, including, note, any kind of broadband access network. They have also repeatedly made it clear that they will not build metro networks at all, but simply connect one or two POPs in a city to similar POPs in another city.

Infraco does not have an ECS licence, but only an ECNS licence, and MUST therefore sell their wholesale backbone bandwidth to other operators, including operators of broadband access networks. To sell services to businesses or the public, they would require AN ACCESS NETWORK, an ECS licence, and an entire retail business that simply does not exist.

If you're wondering what parastatal is supposed to build a broadband access network for everyone in the country, that's Sentech, remember? Spot the problem.

NBN is nothing at all like Infraco. NBN is what you would get if you nationalised Telkom's copper access network - no backbone, no services, just the access network that is supposed to be unbundled during LLU. Unbundling the operator (Telstra in the Oz case, Telkom here) is much, much more effective than unbundling the local loop, since it potentially creates a proper wholesale broadband access company that will not favour one telco over another. Infraco's relevance to this is zero... Telkom is what needs to be broken up.
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Its in their FUTURE plans
....wait until they wake up and realise there is money to be had :sick:

Yes Sentech is the parasite-al :mad:
 
fragtion said:
Escaping inevitable turmoil can only happen if the majority is enlightened out of the ignorant state in which they currently reside. We can only hope that the uneducated masses wake up to the reality and lose THEIR racial tendencies and VOTE for the party that doesn't just repeatedly break its promises, more predictably so every 4 years (You'd think that 20 years after apparent democracy, you'd see a steady rate of IMPROVEMENT - yet it's getting worse?). Well perhaps when we become a TRUE democracy with an educated majority, then we'll see Telkom's copper cables between phone poles where they belong, rather than in the scrapyards thanks to a government that's incompetent at doing what it's SUPPOSED to do; until then, face the reality and stop pretending that we're something that we're not. It's not whining negativity, it's being strong enough to FACE THE FACTS rather than trying to convince yourself that it's all good when that's clearly not the case - because that equates to lies and ignorance, which in turn brings about even more destruction/corruption. Personally, I'm not yet educated beyond a non-university-exemption matric; so seriously, if even I can see these basic truths about our political state, then there's no reason why we should consider this a mammoth task to overcome, really? ;)
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Agree with pretty much with all your points.

jacksback said:
We all know our goverment is useless but so are those that are too lazy to vote. As an example, of my family (5 adults) and my family in law (another 5 adults) only 3 of us voted. The other 7 didn't but still continue to moan about the state of the country. That's just my immediate family and I imagine it's the same everywhere else in South Africa. Let's all stop moaning and rather use that energy to motivate our friends and family to vote for change at the next general election. A few hours at the polls could mean years of postive change for this country.

Let's all stop talking a good game and play one rather.

"Yes we can!" Ring a bell?
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And I also believe this is one of our biggest problems.
All talk and no action
 
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