Bulls rock Thread

Some discussions of the spear tackle prior to the 2007 World Cup

The Referees at the Lensbury Conference will be told that dangerous tackling, including the tackle commonly known as the "spear" tackle - is to be treated at the upper end of the IRB recommended sanctions for offences within the playing enclosure, and offenders dealt with severely.

The message from the IRB is that this type of dangerous tackle is totally unacceptable in the game as is the illegal taking out of players off the ball.

Under Regulation 17 the recommended upper end sanction for a dangerous tackle is three months. The maximum sanction is six months.
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London - The International Rugby Board (IRB) is to launch a crackdown on spear tackling with offenders facing the prospect of a six-month ban.

"Our instruction is that it is a dangerous tackle and anyone found guilty of it should be dealt with at the higher end of the tariff - that is to say they should be suspended for three to six months."
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At Craven week they are issuing immediate red cards for tip tackles. Yes, this is school boy rugby but it further illustrates the view taken on spear tackles.

The issue arose from a decision that at Craven Week a player guilty of a tip tackle receive an automatic red card. "Tip tackle" is a verbal shortcut to refer to a dangerous tackle, defined under Law 10 as: Lifting a player from the ground and dropping or driving that player into the ground whilst that player’s feet are still off the ground such that the player’s head and/or upper body come into contact with the ground first is dangerous play.
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You are right, however, in that I cannot find specific reference to the use of a yellow card. However, in saying that there is very little mention of yellow cards in the laws. Merely one sentence is dedicated to this.

We do, however, have it mentioned to us on a regular basis by the commentators, who I assume would know these things, that the refs have been told that a spear tackle is a yellow card....





All of this, of course, just serves to take the focus off my original point which is still as valid now as it was before.... Griquas had two players who committed penalisable offences sent off. The Bulls didn't....
 
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LancelotSA said:
All of this, of course, just serves to take the focus off my original point which is still as valid now as it was before.... Griquas had two players who committed penalisable offences sent off. The Bulls didn't....
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Interesting, I could've sworn we were discussing the validity of your premise that Zane Kirchner should've received a yellow card which is directly applicable to your point about the Bulls not having players sent off. :confused: Please don't imply that I'm steering the argument away from your original premise as it should be quite obvious that I am not.

Do you then feel that a stiff arm to the neck and a professional foul are not worthy of receiving yellow cards? Or is your only gripe (in the context of your "original point") that Zane Kirchner did not receive a yellow card?

As for the IRB statement, I find that most interesting that no publication was issued of the statement regarding a radical rule change, not even the latest law book contains it. Thanks for the links, though.
 
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The_Techie said:
Interesting, I could've sworn we were discussing the validity of your premise that Zane Kirchner should've received a yellow card which is directly applicable to your point about the Bulls not having players sent off. :confused: Please don't imply that I'm steering the argument away from your original premise as it should be quite obvious that I am not.
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Perhaps you will do well to read my original post AGAIN! You will notice that Kirchner's spear tackle was merely one of three points raised with my MAIN PREMISE being that the calls, when playing the Griquas, always seem to go the Bulls way!

You decided we were going to focus on Kirchner not getting a yellow card hence me taking it back to my original point.

Clearly things are not as obvious as you would like to make out!

LancelotSA said:
Watching this Bulls vs Griquas is a bit like watching any team play against the Springboks when it comes to refereeing decisions....

First try, forward pass to Kirchner not picked up....
Kirchner spear tackle only penalised, no yellow card as deserved.....
Griquas player yellow carded for a stiff arm tackle... two of the same, one for each team, earlier were just penalised and this one was not that bad...

This is the second time the Griquas are sucking the hind tit when it comes to decisions when playing the Bulls.
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Do you then feel that a stiff arm to the neck and a professional foul are not worthy of receiving yellow cards? Or is your only gripe (in the context of your "original point") that Zane Kirchner did not receive a yellow card?
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Seeing as though you were kind enough to raise my original point here let's again refer back to it... it is quoted just above if you want to read it again! You'll note that I did not once say their acts were not worthy of yellow cards. So yes, my "only" gripe is that there is no consistency. Bulls get warnings, Griquas get yellow cards.... just like the Boks - another point I was making before you decided to turn it into a law discussion!

As for the IRB statement, I find that most interesting that no publication was issued of the statement regarding a radical rule change, not even the latest law book contains it. Thanks for the links, though.
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There was no radical law change! Dangerous tackling has always been frowned upon. It was the censure of such acts that was discussed with the referees.

The problem was that initially the law did not refer to, or define, a spear tackle, or a tip tackle as it is called by the IRB, specifically and it has now been added - which you were kind enough to quote earlier.

So to correct what you said above, the latest law book does in fact contain it! It just does not specifically say that you get a yellow card, just as it does not say a stiff arm tackle is a yellow card. These rulings are made in consultation with the refs. You are welcome to search the IRB site for the suspensions that apply to spear tackles if you so desire. You will see that it is in fact viewed in a worse light than high tackles with the minimum sentence being about a week longer!
 
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LancelotSA said:
Perhaps you will do well to read my original post AGAIN! You will notice that Kirchner's spear tackle was merely one of three points raised with my MAIN PREMISE being that the calls when playing the Griquas always seem to go there way!
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Did I respond to only one or to all of your three points made in your main premise?

LancelotSA said:
You decided we were going to focus on Kirchner not getting a yellow card hence me taking it back to my original point.
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It's all I've been focusing on, as it was the only part of your post that I responded to. Would you like me to quote my original post for you?

LancelotSA said:
Clearly things are not as obvious as you would like to make out!
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Or perhaps they are and you are over-complicating the point I was making.

LancelotSA said:
Seeing as though you were kind enough to raise my original point here let's again refer back to is... it is quoted just above if you want to read it again! You'll note that I did not once say their acts were not worthy of yellow cards. So yes, my "only" gripe is that there is no consistency. Bulls get warnings, Griquas get yellow cards....
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The first point has no relevance to the argument that I put forward, and I touched upon your third point when putting forward my argument regarding the second point.

LancelotSA said:
just like the Boks -
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Again, not relevant to the point I was trying to make, hence why I did not quote it.

LancelotSA said:
another point I was making before you decided to turn it into a law discussion!
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My apologies, didn't know your points about how the law was applied has no relevance to the laws. :confused:

LancelotSA said:
There was no radical law change! Dangerous tackling has always been frowned upon.
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Was it always an automatic yellow card for a dangerous tackle? Or did the law change radically to make a certain type of tackle an automatic yellow card, as you claim?

LancelotSA said:
It was the censure of such acts that was discussed with the referees.

The problem was that initially the law did not refer to, or define, a spear tackle, or a tip tackle as it is called by the IRB, specifically and it has now been added - which you were kind enough to quote earlier.
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Indeed, as well as the basic punishment for one.

LancelotSA said:
So to correct what you said above, the latest law book does in fact contain it! It just does not specifically say that you get a yellow card, just as it does not say a stiff arm tackle is a yellow card.
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Precisely, the base punishment is a penalty kick. Unless stated in the law book or in an official statement released by the IRB on their website (which was my point all along in case you missed it) the normal "repeated and intended offenses" can apply, as it did today.

LancelotSA said:
These rulings are made in consultation with the refs. You are welcome to search the IRB site for the suspensions that apply to spear tackles if you so desire. You will see that it is in fact viewed in a worse light than high tackles with the minimum sentence being about a week longer!
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Indeed? Why does neither the latest law book nor the IRB website state that the base penalty is an immediate yellow card? This leaves way too much room for referee's discretion, as different punishments applied to the same situation can be valid.
 
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The_Techie said:
Please don't imply that I'm steering the argument away from your original premise as it should be quite obvious that I am not.
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The_Techie said:
It's all I've been focusing on, as it was the only part of your post that I responded to.
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Taking something out of context seems to come to mind here....

I'm not even going to bother reading the rest, as I will take your focusing only on Kirchner not getting a yellow as agreement with my assertion that the Bulls always seem to get the better of the decisions overall.
 
LancelotSA said:
Taking something out of context seems to come to mind here....I'm not even going to bother reading the rest, as I will take your focusing only on Kirchner not getting a yellow as agreement with my assertion that the Bulls always seem to get the better of the decisions overall.
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thumbsup.gif


Way to defeat my argument, appeal to ridicule at its finest ;)
 
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If the Sharks play anything like they did against the Lions, they will have a very tough semi against the Cheetahs.

I don't want to make any predictions on WP vs Bulls semi. 50/50.

I'm thinking Sharks vs WP final but seriously hoping for upsets and then having a Bulls vs Cheetah final in PTA.
 
The bulls have bakkies back :D

Habana and Spies are out for this weekend (non-serious injuries).

This weekend is going to be interesting to see how we are making progress (hopefully we are :p)
 
Devill said:
He is a tit.

Even a bored tit I suspect :p:D
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funny how he's a sharks supporter, but in the top5 posters in the bulls section....

funny how he comes in here, trolls, and then should we post something in the sharks thread, we're stupid/petty/trolls/"typical bulls supporters" etc...

but ya, whatever rocks his boat...
 
You know Bizkit, that sig of yours...

I really enjoy Kurt Darren and I think many - if not most - Bulls fans do. And I have asked this once before but got no reply. What is wrong with Kurt? Did you have a personal altercation or do you just not enjoy Afrikaans music?

And on to the subject at hand: Bakkies is finally back in action. Maak die BULLE almal BAKKIES! Daan k@k julle!

(with apologies to another great Afrikaans musician, although I think he will agree with me)
 
GreGorGy said:
You know Bizkit, that sig of yours...

I really enjoy Kurt Darren and I think many - if not most - Bulls fans do. And I have asked this once before but got no reply. What is wrong with Kurt? Did you have a personal altercation or do you just not enjoy Afrikaans music?

And on to the subject at hand: Bakkies is finally back in action. Maak die BULLE almal BAKKIES! Daan k@k julle!

(with apologies to another great Afrikaans musician, although I think he will agree with me)
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haha, ok COMPLETELY off topic, but ill answer you....

Kurt Darren/Nicholas Louw & KIE are not "musicians" , they are AT BEST kareoke singers:
1. Most of them don't even play instruments (and Nicholas playing A G B G E , is NOT playing music)
2. They don't write their own music
3. They choose between 3-4 backtrack samples, and use that OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER again, every single one of them

so taken the above into consideration, they are KAREOKE singers.

next point:

The lyrics they write, W T F? aren't music suppose to mean something to the singer, and inspire something in the people who listen to your lyrics? [if you "like the beat" then go listen to House or Rave/Trance, lotsa beats there]

example:
IEWERS HIER BINNE IN MY BOKKIE
KLOP MY OU HART SOOS ‘N TOKTOKKIE
STAAN NOU OP EN KOM SAAM MET MY
DIE AAND IS NOU AL AMPER VERBY

KOM ONS GAAN PATAYO HE PATAYO HE PATAYO....
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when this was wrote, did she go:
ok, my 1ste sinnetjie einding met bokkie, nou wat rym alles met bokkie...

uhm... sokkie [nee, daar is al 10 000 songs met dit in], AH! toktokkie.

great, now we have line 1 and line 2 rhymes, just get line 3 and 4 to rhyme.

ok moving on:
Ek vang ‘n vis ska-rumba
Ek weet wat dit is ska-rumba
Dis ‘n blou akkedis ska-rumba titi joy joy ska-rumba
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this, this is WTF? if i wrote this for my afrikaans poetry class in primary school, i would have gotten detention, and my teachers might have had me tested for being "special"

Daar is ‘n wind wat waai, ek het ‘n haan hoor kraai
Ek het van jou gedroom gistraand
En as ek jou gaan kry, gaan ons lekker vry
Ek wil my baby hê vanaand
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:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: never-fsking-mind, too easy

last night i saw a song on kyknet, fsck know who it was
...moenie worry nie, jyt darm nog petrol in jou karretjie

and

ekt 'n toeter op my water scooter
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Seriously???????

[btw, i'm 100% afrikaans, born, raised, school, varsity, all in afrikaans]

and to answer your 2nd question, no i don't dislike afrikaans musiek

1. Steve Hofmeyr - he's ok, he writes his own songs, he writes his own music, and most of his lyrics mean something [+ no backtracks, so bonus for him, not a massive fan of him, but respect to him]
2. Koos Kombuis - ABSOLUTE legend of Afrikaans music, and it wouldn't hurt these kareoke singers to follow his example.
3. Theuns Jordaan - I can listen to him, not too bad
4. F.o.kofpolisiekar/EF-EL/ and KIE [afrikaans metro? dunno] good bands, own music, own instruments, no backtracks
5. Klopjag, very good Afrikaans band, very nice music.
6. Beeskraal - decent band

so we've got some awesome afrikaans bands, but THOSE people have a formula to churn out K@K music, and afrikaans people seem so desperate to listen to afrikaans musiek, that they keep on buying this sh.!.t.

and this gets me to my sig, they make me ashamed to be afrikaans, if people will judge our culture/habits/tastes by the "music" these people produce...

End of that, thats my take and opinion on them... flame on....:p
 
Gothan said:
So sad that you fear us that much, maybe you should have more faith in your own team's abilities.
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It's not about fear but about supporting Gauteng's nearest neighbours :D

Sharks have the hoodoo over the Bulls now in CC ... so as they say, bring it on! :cool:
 
Man its going to be in interesting weekend in the CC, just think, what if the cheetahs get a place in the semis. Then the bulls and the cheetahs lay waste the pansies from the various sea side resorts. Then its the bulls and the cheetahs in the final, the way nature intended
 
Gothan said:
Man its going to be in interesting weekend in the CC, just think, what if the cheetahs get a place in the semis. Then the bulls and the cheetahs lay waste the pansies from the various sea side resorts. Then its the bulls and the cheetahs in the final, the way nature intended
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How's Utopia, Gothan? :p
 
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