Call limit problem

[SlowInternet]

On about 6 October we placed a call limit on one of our cellphones. A sms was received stating that the call limit was in place now. It was also mentioned that a sms will be send when reaching certain stages before the limit.

To my shock I found out that the account up to now is more than 2 times the limit we requested. I lodged a query on vodacom4me on Wednesday and was contacted this morning by a certain "Thabang" who requested me to please explain my problem.

I asked him how it is possible that an account can be more than double the requested limit. At no stage was any sms received warning that the call limit was reached. He wasn't able to tell me what went wrong and his only answer was that no service can be guaranteed and that he doesn't have any other solution to the problem. He mentioned something about the terms and conditions of the service stating there's no guarantee but the terms was never received by me.

So I need to know who else I can email or contact to get the problem resolved because the assistance I got was useless.

Thank you

 

[vodacom3g]

On about 6 October we placed a call limit on one of our cellphones. A sms was received stating that the call limit was in place now. It was also mentioned that a sms will be send when reaching certain stages before the limit.

To my shock I found out that the account up to now is more than 2 times the limit we requested. I lodged a query on vodacom4me on Wednesday and was contacted this morning by a certain "Thabang" who requested me to please explain my problem.

I asked him how it is possible that an account can be more than double the requested limit. At no stage was any sms received warning that the call limit was reached. He wasn't able to tell me what went wrong and his only answer was that no service can be guaranteed and that he doesn't have any other solution to the problem. He mentioned something about the terms and conditions of the service stating there's no guarantee but the terms was never received by me.

So I need to know who else I can email or contact to get the problem resolved because the assistance I got was useless.

Thank you

Me of course.

 

[ic]

On about 6 October we placed a call limit on one of our cellphones. A sms was received stating that the call limit was in place now. It was also mentioned that a sms will be send when reaching certain stages before the limit.

To my shock I found out that the account up to now is more than 2 times the limit we requested. I lodged a query on vodacom4me on Wednesday and was contacted this morning by a certain "Thabang" who requested me to please explain my problem.

I asked him how it is possible that an account can be more than double the requested limit. At no stage was any sms received warning that the call limit was reached. He wasn't able to tell me what went wrong and his only answer was that no service can be guaranteed and that he doesn't have any other solution to the problem. He mentioned something about the terms and conditions of the service stating there's no guarantee but the terms was never received by me.

So I need to know who else I can email or contact to get the problem resolved because the assistance I got was useless.

Thank you

As v3g pointed out, you can follow the advice in v3g's forum signature.

Now for my question, when you 'placed the call limit', how did you do that exactly? - did you call Vodacom to have it done, or did you do it on v4me?

The reason I ask, is that if one calls Vodacom to have a Call Limit enabled, you would have been informed both verbally and in writing [via fax] that Call Limit is not a guaranteed limit since it is based on contract usage info which takes 3+ hours to filter through to Vodacom's billing systems used for contract accounts.

I'm not sure if the same info is displayed on v4me.

Call Limit is more of a theoretical limit and in no way does it remove your obligation to pay for your usage beyond the theoretical limit.

 

[SlowInternet]

As v3g pointed out, you can follow the advice in v3g's forum signature.

Contacted v3g - thanks

Now for my question, when you 'placed the call limit', how did you do that exactly? - did you call Vodacom to have it done, or did you do it on v4me?

The reason I ask, is that if one calls Vodacom to have a Call Limit enabled, you would have been informed both verbally and in writing [via fax] that Call Limit is not a guaranteed limit since it is based on contract usage info which takes 3+ hours to filter through to Vodacom's billing systems used for contract accounts.

I'm not sure if the same info is displayed on v4me.

Call Limit is more of a theoretical limit and in no way does it remove your obligation to pay for your usage beyond the theoretical limit.

Contacted Vodacom.

I understand that it takes time for the info to come through the billing system but when the amount of the bill is more than double the call limit amount to me it seems that somewhere there's something wrong. According to V4me one will receive at least 3 sms notifications before you reach your call limit. In my case I haven't received even 1 sms.

I have been contacted by Vodacom after I pm'd V3g and they will investigate why no sms notifications was send.

Thanks for the assistance V3g

 

[ic]

Contacted v3g - thanks


Contacted Vodacom.

I understand that it takes time for the info to come through the billing system but when the amount of the bill is more than double the call limit amount to me it seems that somewhere there's something wrong. According to V4me one will receive at least 3 sms notifications before you reach your call limit. In my case I haven't received even 1 sms.

I have been contacted by Vodacom after I pm'd V3g and they will investigate why no sms notifications was send.

Thanks for the assistance V3g

I don't disagree with you - the systems should be realtime - unfortunately they are not realtime - this is also one of the reasons why I refuse to use Vodacom's Contract Data Bundles which are effectively affected by the same usage delays and it's therefore way too easy to go OOB - instead I use Vodacom's pre-paid data bundles which are 100% realtime and were developed from scratch by Vodacom [which took a very long time, but PPDBs really work extremely well].

My understanding is as follows:

1. The systems that are in use, were effectively provided by the GSM equipment vendors;
2. The systems are very inflexible, and I'm sure that over the years these systems have had to be tweaked countless times;
3. These systems are designed & intended to work with post-paid usage & accounts only - that means figure out what the usage is long after the usage has occurred and send out a bill later;
4. These systems are effectively & indirectly used by millions of Vodacom's customers, so changing anything can introduce catastrophic bugs;
5. Building a rewritten set of systems is also very difficult since there is no way to stress test such a new system to simulate usage by millions of customers before such a new system goes live;
6. The only way Vodacom could conceivably manage the introduction of such a new set of systems, is to run them for a specific new product or service which would initially be under subscribed and gradually fix any scalability issues as they appear.

The same applies to MTN as well, and probably CellC too.

Hope that makes sense, and I'm sure v3g will correct me if needed.

 

[bekdik]

I don't disagree with you - the systems should be realtime - unfortunately they are not realtime

Just curious. Why should the inadequacies of the suppliers' computer systems be the clients problem?

Far too often are the big corporates passing on their problems as client billing. It's bullsh1t.

 

[DXL]

BoyCoTT 3G Use NeoTel's CDMA

BoyCoTT 3G Use NeoTel's CDMA

NeoTel offers a rate of 8c per megabyte.

Use NeoTel , It will help the Market get Competitive.

DXL - Consumer

 

[ic]

I don't disagree with you - the systems should be realtime - unfortunately they are not realtime

Just curious. Why should the inadequacies of the suppliers' computer systems be the clients problem?

Far too often are the big corporates passing on their problems as client billing. It's bullsh1t.

Here's a question for you: you appear to be assuming that I would disagree with you - even though it is clear from what you quoted in my post that I actually do agree, why are you making that [incorrect] assumption, or have I misinterpreted what you intended to post?

The point of my post, was to povide some insight into the realities of the systems that are in use, and how difficult it is to introduce sweeping changes to such systems that would potentially affect millions of contract customers.

Software Developers that have ever been involved with massively complex & multi-layered systems, are probably the only people that are able to comprehend what's involved - I am such a person although I have never had anything involvement in Vodacom's systems - my experience comes primarily from the banking sector and the merging of several distinct banks' set of numerous systems into a coherent set of systems.

BoyCoTT 3G Use NeoTel's CDMA

NeoTel offers a rate of 8c per megabyte.

Use NeoTel , It will help the Market get Competitive.

DXL - Consumer

Apart from the fact that Neoghost has so little CDMA2000 network coverage that makes Neoghost a non-existent service for the vast majority of consumers, what does your post actually have to do with this thread?

 

[vodacom3g]

I don't disagree with you - the systems should be realtime - unfortunately they are not realtime - this is also one of the reasons why I refuse to use Vodacom's Contract Data Bundles which are effectively affected by the same usage delays and it's therefore way too easy to go OOB - instead I use Vodacom's pre-paid data bundles which are 100% realtime and were developed from scratch by Vodacom [which took a very long time, but PPDBs really work extremely well].

My understanding is as follows:

1. The systems that are in use, were effectively provided by the GSM equipment vendors;
2. The systems are very inflexible, and I'm sure that over the years these systems have had to be tweaked countless times;
3. These systems are designed & intended to work with post-paid usage & accounts only - that means figure out what the usage is long after the usage has occurred and send out a bill later;
4. These systems are effectively & indirectly used by millions of Vodacom's customers, so changing anything can introduce catastrophic bugs;
5. Building a rewritten set of systems is also very difficult since there is no way to stress test such a new system to simulate usage by millions of customers before such a new system goes live;
6. The only way Vodacom could conceivably manage the introduction of such a new set of systems, is to run them for a specific new product or service which would initially be under subscribed and gradually fix any scalability issues as they appear.

The same applies to MTN as well, and probably CellC too.

Hope that makes sense, and I'm sure v3g will correct me if needed.

Pretty much spot-on. I always think of Vodacom as a big boat, say a cruise ship. While it can take thousands of people it is slow to turn, but once it turns you also can't stop it. Compared to a jet-sky that can take 2 people but can be extremely nimble.

This is in essence the challenge to make changes to systems in an organisation with millions of users. It's a slow process to make changes while the whole thing needs to be live and stable.

But this is all just of interest, it's not to say it should (or does) not happen. Real-time billing for contract is an active project.

 

[bekdik]

Here's a question for you: you appear to be assuming that I would disagree with you - even though it is clear from what you quoted in my post that I actually do agree, why are you making that [incorrect] assumption, or have I misinterpreted what you intended to post?

Nope, not disagreeing with you, or assuming you'd disagree with me, just trying to generalise your statement. Not too successfully it seems

Nothing annoys me more than the the large corporates (who seem to be the most constant offenders), screwing up and then expecting their clients to pay for their mistakes and incompetence. I find the small shop will bend over backwards to provide their client with a good experience, even to their own cost.

 

[ic]

Nope, not disagreeing with you, or assuming you'd disagree with me, just trying to generalise your statement. Not too successfully it seems

Nothing annoys me more than the the large corporates (who seem to be the most constant offenders), screwing up and then expecting their clients to pay for their mistakes and incompetence. I find the small shop will bend over backwards to provide their client with a good experience, even to their own cost.

Ok then we are in agreement .

Yep, that is nearly always very true, there are reasons for it though - one is lack of competition resulting in sloth-like behaviour on the part of large corporates, but it's [IMO] usually the oil tanker analogy that v3g posted below that dominates combined with other reasons including the former:

Pretty much spot-on. I always think of Vodacom as a big boat, say a cruise ship. While it can take thousands of people it is slow to turn, but once it turns you also can't stop it. Compared to a jet-sky that can take 2 people but can be extremely nimble.

This is in essence the challenge to make changes to systems in an organisation with millions of users. It's a slow process to make changes while the whole thing needs to be live and stable.

But this is all just of interest, it's not to say it should (or does) not happen. Real-time billing for contract is an active project.

It's not just Vodacom - nearly all large corporates are cursed with the oil tanker syndrome - those that realise it and constantly fight to follow new trade routes are usually more successful than the other oil tanker corporates that happily stick to what they know and refuse to see that there is more out there - IMO Telkodemonopolies and nearly all parastatals are prime examples of the blinkered oil tanker corporates.

Good news highlighted there BTW .

 

[vodacom3g]

Final feedback and, importantly, check if you're also not affected:

1) SlowInternet (SI) phoned Call Desk and ask to be put on Call-Limit (CL) system.
2) Get SMS confirming he is now on CL system. But the SMS does not say it is pending receipt of a return confirmation SMS.
3) SI sends confirmation SMS, but from a different number.
4) System rejects SMS as not authentic, so keep CL in 'pending' state awaiting SMS from correct number.
5) SI believe everything is sorted and working. But it's not.

So there are a few things we did to ensure this does not happen again.

a) Text in SMS to user must be more clear about what should happen.
b) Text in notification SMS clearly must indicate 'pending' or 'active' status.
c) Call Center agents must better understand / explain the process.

We're sorting out SI's account for him.

In general, nothing really broke, both SI and the system worked the way they thought is correct. But a communication mismatch (as per usual) cause the problem.

So if you requested to be on CL, maybe check if you're definitely on 'active' status.

 

[bekdik]

Final feedback and, importantly, check if you're also not affected:

1) SlowInternet (SI) phoned Call Desk and ask to be put on Call-Limit (CL) system.
2) Get SMS confirming he is now on CL system. But the SMS does not say it is pending receipt of a return confirmation SMS.
3) SI sends confirmation SMS, but from a different number.
4) System rejects SMS as not authentic, so keep CL in 'pending' state awaiting SMS from correct number.
5) SI believe everything is sorted and working. But it's not.

So there are a few things we did to ensure this does not happen again.

a) Text in SMS to user must be more clear about what should happen.
b) Text in notification SMS clearly must indicate 'pending' or 'active' status.
c) Call Center agents must better understand / explain the process.

We're sorting out SI's account for him.

In general, nothing really broke, both SI and the system worked the way they thought is correct. But a communication mismatch (as per usual) cause the problem.

So if you requested to by on CL, maybe check if you're definitely on 'active' status.

So you are trying to be the company that flies in the face of my earlier comment?

I wish there were more like you and I'm not even a Voda subscriber

Well done.

 

[ic]

...
3) SI sends confirmation SMS, but from a different number.
4) System rejects SMS as not authentic, so keep CL in 'pending' state awaiting SMS from correct number.

@SlowInternet, do you maybe use TwinCall - is that how this happened?

 

[SlowInternet]

@SlowInternet, do you maybe use TwinCall - is that how this happened?

No just more than one contract. SMS was send from the Master contract holder number and not from the number that the Call limit was requested for. The disclaimer didn't state it has to be send from the number for which the Call limit was requested.

@ Vodacom3g - Just wanna say a BIG thanks for all your help and the regular feedback. If VC had more people like you they would have been close to a perfect Service Provider !

Looks like the problem will be resolved to my satisfaction - just waiting for final confirmation.

Thanks VC

 

[Steinie]

Pretty much spot-on. I always think of Vodacom as a big boat, say a cruise ship. While it can take thousands of people it is slow to turn, but once it turns you also can't stop it. Compared to a jet-sky that can take 2 people but can be extremely nimble.

This is in essence the challenge to make changes to systems in an organisation with millions of users. It's a slow process to make changes while the whole thing needs to be live and stable.

But this is all just of interest, it's not to say it should (or does) not happen. Real-time billing for contract is an active project.

Remember the Titanic!!

 

[ic]

Remember the Titanic!!

o/t, but icebergs are melting on account of global warming...