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Debbie

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I am looking for a copy of the original complaint MyADSL lodged with ICASA about Telkom's ADSL service. I believe rpm mailed this to ICASA on 19 Feb 2004 (see http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/archive/index.php/t-12825.html - thread is dated 24 Feb 2004). Unfortunately it appears that the text of the initial complaint was never posted on MyADSL- instead it was available to read via pdf download (originally located at http://www.myadsl.co.za/ICASA.pdf).

If anyone has a copy of this, please let me know.

Thanks,
Debbie

(PS Does anyone know if Diana Ngoasheng is still at ICASA?)
 
Looks like you are going to give someone hell :)

Here is Part II of the CCC reply thing, don't know if this will help:


As for the arbitrary legal case quotes, pathetic, they show as much diligence as the feeble regulations. Maybe if they had quoted something like Henderson vs Stevenson 1875

" In my view, it could lead to injustice to Telkom if local bandwidth should not count towards the cap. (in effect, the subscriber would in such a case not pay for his use of local bandwidth. Probably it was this consequence which led Mr Cleghom to abandon this interpretation "

Were on Earth do Telkom and ICASA get the idea that that people do not pay for things, what do they think the ADSL and ISP charges are for, people pay for the service, it is bad enough that Telkom try and cheat us out of our due, but worse when ICASA join in. No one is asking for free, people are paying for something and want what they pay for, not to be side tracked with some cheap trick about not getting things for free. What ICASA should be asking is how much it would cost Telkom, and the answer is the same for local calls, it would cost them next to nothing. All they to do is spin people a story and hope they fall for it, or at least spend time working on it, because everyday they are left unfettered, they rake in the profits

What Mr Maritz has done is to fit the facts to best suit the client, the problem is, it is a up-hill battle, mainly because his client is wrong, it is always going to be hard to defend that which is not right. And it is just as easy to pull the whole argument apart, a flawed defence is always going to be easy to pick apart, Mr Maritz comes over with all the airs of a seasoned Poker player, but like the Wizard of Oz, once the illusion is spotted, the game is up, and like another great novel, it all falls apart like a pack of cards

It would be easy to counter the argument by drawing a parallel with a Tax cap, let us say that there is a tax cap of 45% on earnings, this rate is effective once you have earned a certain amount, for arguments sake let us say that this is One Million Rand - You will be taxed at a lower rate if your earnings are lower, but if you win the lotto, there is no tax on this amount... So you can easily draw the following model, International bandwidth is taxable income that counts towards the taxable limit (cap) Local Bandwidth is non taxable income and does not count towards the taxable amount. In fact what this model clearly shows is how wrong it is to count local as part of the accumulation towards the cap

But wait, there's more

Beating someone at their own game is one thing, here is the knock out blow, this is the soft under belly of the beast.

ICASA made a mess of the regulations, it is hard to believe that this was the work of people hand picked and paid to do a job, took far to long, and when they were finally finished and released, it was next to pathetic, which we the people paid for. However it did contain one line that was worth it

" local bandwidth usage shall not be subject to the cap "

This single line is enough to de-rail Telkom's Gravy train, and it was of vital importance to attack it - and I quote " Mr Maritz submitted that regulation 3.4 is clearly ambiguous " - By saying this, he then proceeded to introduce Telkom's version of what it would like it to be. The thing is most people know what it means, so it is not ambiguous, it is only that when someone is trying to weasel out of giving people value for their money

" The biggest trick that the Devil pulled was to make people believe there is no such person "

All this fine talk and twisting, is just smoke and mirrors... One only has to look at the past to see what the answer is, it is very clear and cannot be smooth talked away

When ADSL was first introduced, there was no such thing as a Cap - this was something that Telkom decided to wish upon us. And as an objection to this the ICASA ADSL hearings took place, the shorted version of this is that Telkom came up with the story that they had to put a limit on things because abuse would cause the service to suffer, and that it was the International Bandwidth that was costing Telkom money, so they had to cut down on its use

So after a good while, and as a result of the hearings, ICASA came up with the ADSL regulations, forget how they differed with the draft regulations, the one thing they did was to include the immortal line

" local bandwidth usage shall not be subject to the cap "

This shows a clear path of intent, when ADSL was introduced there was no Cap, Telkom state that the Cap is mainly the result of the ' So called ' high cost of International bandwidth, ICASA rules that Local Bandwidth usage shall not be subject to the Cap - It cannot be any clearer

This causes two problems for Telkom, firstly as ICASA has written it, local bandwidth is to be un-limited, which at the end of the day is down to ICASA publishing half baked regulations, Telkom seems to like sticking with things when it suits them, but when the boot is on the other foot then they tend to throw their toys out the cot - But there are limits, even when dealing with un-bridled greed, for Telkom to take away the greater part of a users account is a bit much, but to take International and Local, that is just too much

The second area of concern (for Telkom) would be the re-emergence of 30 Gig ADSL accounts, which they know that there will be a good few users clubbing together to share the service and cost
 
Tx Ant_Brooks

http://web.archive.org/web/20040611104148/http://www.myadsl.co.za/ICASA.pdf

Posted below as it can't hurt to have an additional copy on the net.

--------------------------------
2004 ICASA COMPLAINT from MyADSL regarding TELKOM’S ADSL SERVICE

Executive summary
This document is a formal complaint from MyADSL against Telkom’s ADSL
Service. This complaint touches on many different aspects of the service where
MyADSL members and ADSL users believe that Telkom has misused their right
as a legally protected monopoly to increase their profits by providing a sub
standard service at a high cost. MyADSL is an ADSL users group with over 1200
members, and they agree nearly unanimously that the complaints in this
document are valid and should be addressed by ICASA. ICASA states clearly
that they strive to “hear and decide on disputes and complaints brought by
industry or members of the public against licensees” and “Protect consumers
from unfair business practices, poor quality services and harmful or inferior
products”, and this complaint therefore falls directly within the jurisdiction of
ICASA and should be dealt with by ICASA. This complaint focuses on two main
areas, namely Service and Cost. By addressing these complaints ICASA and
Telkom will greatly benefit South Africa’s IT Industry, Education, Small and
medium sized businesses and the local Internet community as a whole.
Cost
Marconi and Alcatel ADSL Modem Cost
• The Alcatel ADSL POTS Ethernet Modem was initially sold to customers
at R 2469-00 while the Alcatel ADSL POTS USB Modem was sold at R
2067-00. The Marconi ADSL POTS Ethernet Modem and Marconi ADSL
POTS USM Modem were sold at similar rates to the Alcatel modems.
These prices are exorbitant when compared to the international pricing of
similar equipment. While similar products can be purchased
internationally on wholesale at as low as R 50-00 per unit, the retail cost
for these products is typically between R 200-00 and R 1000-00 per unit,
depending on the make and functionality of the product. It is clear that
users were overcharged for these products. A comparative price chart of
ADSL modems can be found at Appendix B.
• We are aware that users were given the option of providing their own
modem, but it was strongly advised by Telkom that users should use an
ICASA approved modem. Since only these modems were approved by
ICASA at the time of the ADSL rollout, we feel that Telkom misused their
position to sell overpriced products to their clients.
• We feel that users should be refunded for the excess by Telkom. The
prices have recently dropped by about 50% which is an indication of the
exorbitant rates charged by Telkom previously. The prices are still
unnecessarily high even with this cut.
Line Rental
• The line rental for ADSL is very high and unnecessary. In most other
countries there is no additional cost for line rental with ADSL. This makes
up the bulk of the cost of ADSL in South Africa, and has nothing to do with
our location or international bandwidth which is the main reason supplied
by Telkom for the high comparative cost of ADSL in South Africa.
Although some investment needs to be made to prepare exchanges for
ADSL, we feel that an additional 1000% line rental charge is ridiculous.
The fact that other countries can not only waive this cost, but also throw in
a free modem and installation clearly supports our argument.
• ADSL Business users can see no reason why the additional line rental for
businesses should be higher than that for home users. The service is,
after all, exactly the same.
• The reason for the high cost ADSL in South Africa was blamed partly on
the high cost of International bandwidth. This was the case when the
Rand was still over R 10-00 to the dollar. The strengthening of the Rand
should have provided us with either a decrease in cost or increase in
service, but this was not the case.
• We feel that the line rental cost should be waived or dropped substantially.
We also feel that a refund for customers that have been paying these
inflated rates should be granted. It is the task of ICASA to protect
customers against this kind of abuse and ensure good standards.
Service
• The ADSL service was initially sold as “Superfast Internet Access”, which
mislead many people to believe that the service is comparable to ADSL in
other countries. It is, after all, a broadband service which should provide
fast Internet to the user. Telkom soon altered its advertising to “Always
On”. We believe this was mainly due to the poor international speeds
obtained due to the lack of international bandwidth made available by
Telkom for this service. Telkom is not willing to divulge any information
about contention ratios or available International bandwidth, which places
the user in an uninformed position. This would not be the case in a
competitive market, and Telkom is clearly misusing its status as a legally
protected monopoly. The current service agreement is completely onesided
and it gives the user no way through which he/she can demand a
better service.
• Telkom introduced traffic shaping (port prioritization) without notifying
users. We feel that users should be consulted and notified about changes
in the service that will influence the functionality of the service.
• As mentioned above, international speeds can be very low during
standard business hours. Many users have tested speeds as low as 10
kbits/sec, which is 50 times slower than the advertised speed. A
contention ratio of 50:1 is the accepted international standard, and we
believe ICASA should enforce this standard to safeguard users against
abuse from Telkom.
• We appreciate that the speed of ADSL can not be guaranteed, but we feel
that there should be a well structured service agreement in place between
Telkom and the user. This service agreement should include issues like
contention ratios, service availability and support.
• The Telkom ADSL support system leaves a great deal to be desired.
ADSL customers can, for example, not even alter their own passwords if
they detect fraud or misuse of their account. It is also impossible for users
to detect account abuse, which has been proven to happen with the ADSL
service. We feel that certain standards of service should be enforced by
ICASA since customers do not have the choice of supporting a competing
company in South Africa.
• The 3 Gigabyte cap and measuring thereof is of great concern to many
users. We are well aware that international bandwidth is more expensive
than in the US, UK or Europe, but we feel that only international bandwidth
should then be measured. This is a simple method to ensure that both
parties benefit from a certain service. Users also feel that capped users
should still have a usable service. Currently international Internet usage
becomes nearly impossible when capped. Telkom made it clear that the
cost and limitations regarding international bandwidth is the main reason
for introducing the 3 Gig cap, and we feel that only international traffic
should count towards the cap.
Appendix A: Comparative ADSL Costs
Country SA UK US Australia Japan
Company Telkom BT EarthLink WAN Yahoo BB
Service ADSL 512 ADSL 512 ADSL 512 ADSL 512 ADSL 8
Mbps
Restrictions 3 Gig Cap
Dynamic IP
address
None None None None
Monthly R 899-00 P 27-00 $ 49-95** A$ 99-00 Y 2730*
Installation R 404-00 Free Free A$ 163-90 Free*
Modem R 1499-98 Free Free A$ 118-00 Free*
Total R 12692.00 P 324.00 $ 515.40 A$ 1469.9 Y 32760.00*
Price in US $
(per annum)
$ 1732-00 $ 540.74 $ 515.40 $ 1006.66 $ 296.50
* These prices are approximations since I could not locate an English page
describing all costs.
** The cost for the first three months is $ 21.95
Appendix B: Comparative Modem Costs
Comparative cost table for initial price of ADSL USB POTS
Company Modem Price
Marconi-Telkom ADSL USB POTS R 2077-85
Alcatel-Telkom ADSL USB R 2067-00
Alcatel ADSL USB R 757-00
US Robotics ADSL USB Sureconnect R 800-00
Mentor ADSL USB R 444-00
Dabsvalue ADSL USB R 252-00

Contact Details
[omitted]
 
well that puts what I said about how local usage was not to be subject or part of the car - I do wish Telkom would grow up and serve the people of SA
 
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