Can SA get there?

[Odom]

What Swedish Saffer forgot to mention:

- His appartment does not only come with a free ADSL line but also with a monthly rental price of R10.000 - R20.000

- His appartment is a whole lot smaller than your house in SA

- The weather often sucks badly, so he can't go out much

- He needs to work much harder and longer for his generous paycheck

- He pays more taxes than most of you guys earn monthly

- Hiring a maid? Forget it! She earns more than you too.

What you forgot to mention.

- Crime is basically non-existent so you don't have to waste time gettig an alarm system and rent a cop.

- Public transport is functional, efficent and cheap so he doesn't have to own a car, pay for it, service it and insure it.

- He doesn't have to have a medical aid because public health care isn't ****

- About Tax rates we vary between 18% and 40% Sweden varies between 28% and 59% so if he's middle class which I'm assuming he won't notice much of a difference at all

- Yes he might not see the sun much in Sweden but he could probably fly to Spain or France for about as much as it costs us to fly from JHB to DBN.

I'd love to move to a 1st world country and live there.

I'd gladly trade the weather we have here for a 1st world country's infrastructure and life style.

 

[lotus123]

U lot are just jealous !!!

I know I certainly am! And it's not just the speed and unlimited capacity either. How about the other things that come with this service, like loads of TV channels that are not constant re-runs (okay, he might have a problem with the language there), or the phone service with free or ultra-cheap calls.

No, this is not about a fast internet connection - this is about things working as they should. And here we are getting overjoyed because a couple of ISPs are finally breaking the status quo.

 

[lotus123]

- About Tax rates we vary between 18% and 40% Sweden varies between 28% and 59% so if he's middle class which I'm assuming he won't notice much of a difference at all

Good point. There was an article (Fin24, I think) recently about the stated tax rates here vs the real rate, i.e. what you pay in stealth taxes and the stuff you pay for that the State should but won't/can't provide (medical, security, education, etc.)

Apparently the figure is closer to 62% when you factor some of that in.

But I'll agree on the weather!

 

[HermanTheGerman]

What you forgot to mention.

- Crime is basically non-existent so you don't have to waste time gettig an alarm system and rent a cop.

Oh believe me, they have crime. With a population of only 8 millions, and much less poverty, it's obviosuly less then in SA. But please don't think the rest of the world is a crime-free paradise. Coz it isn't!

- Public transport is functional, efficent and cheap so he doesn't have to own a car, pay for it, service it and insure it.

If he wants to go places, leave the city, travel the wonderful countryside a bit, he needs a car. And the taxes on cars are horrendous. As well as taxes on petrol.

- He doesn't have to have a medical aid because public health care isn't ****

True. But their public health care is paid with parts of his income which will be deducted from his monthly paycheck automatically. Dunno about Sweden specifically but in Germany it's between 15-18%!

- About Tax rates we vary between 18% and 40% Sweden varies between 28% and 59% so if he's middle class which I'm assuming he won't notice much of a difference at all

You forget the VAT! Buying a pack of ciggies, a few beers and a steak for braai is tenfold of what you're paying here.

- Yes he might not see the sun much in Sweden but he could probably fly to Spain or France for about as much as it costs us to fly from JHB to DBN.

Yes, flights in EU are cheaper then in SA. But when do they fly? Once, twice a year, for vacations. The rest of the time they spend working. The workload of northern Europeans would give any SAfrican an instant heart attack

And that's exactly the reason for the cheap internet over there: In Sweden they don't slack, they don't goof off - they work hard to provide good service.
Change comes from within. If SA ISP's wouldn't aim for the incredible high profit rates, but instead invest in better personnel and better technology they could offer the same service here. But that would also mean for all SAfricans to be better educated, spend more time in office, work harder, more concentrated and organize better. Else they can't secure one of the good jobs.
You really want that?
You up for it?

See, back in Germany I was used to work 60-70 hours/week and carry a lot of responsibility. And the pressure was enormous. So there was no slacking, not for a second. And I wasn't a boss in any way, just an average office clerk.
Everything comes with a price.

 

[Positively Negative]

theoretically - how long would it take to download say a Blu Ray rip of 8 gigs at that speed sorry i flunked Maths

 

[lotus123]

theoretically - how long would it take to download say a Blu Ray rip of 8 gigs at that speed sorry i flunked Maths

Why bother? With a postal service that doesn't regard theft as the perks of the job, you can buy online at decent prices and get it safely delivered next day.

 

[Swedish Saffer]

Thanks for all the replies. Sorry to those who didn't get the point.

For the techies: Stockholm city centre runs fiber optic cables to all their surrounding municipalities within 30km, this system is called the stadsnet.

The ping time is always 1ms using an Ethernet cable but nobody uses Ethernet cables, virtually everybody uses a wireless home network.
The ping time with my 802.11g network is 2ms and a mere 22Mbit/s download rate.

When I'm downloading with my Ethernet cable and using bit Torrent I maintain a 5.5-7.5 Megabyte/second download rate, that is when I have enough downloads running and sufficient seeds.

As far as the county battle goes, Stockholm is a really cool city to live in, I come from Cape Town and the cape is a really hard one to beat.

Some FACTS about living in Sweden:
The crime rate is very low, you can walk through the city centre in the middle of the knight without worrying (plus you will notice that the streets are spotless).

The average amount of paid working days per year is 30 (SA=15)
The people here do not work themselves to death, they take time and do it properly.
I had to work my but off in SA and made half the salary.
People aren’t driven my money, they value quality of life as more important than earning a huge salary, there is no shame in being a house painter because there is no such thing as a poorly paid job.

The tax is high, but unlike in SA, you get it back what you put in and in a much more beneficial way though free schooling (from Pre-Primary until PhD university) free doctors (costs R150 for a check up or a heart transplant).

The average life expectancy is 81 (SA=41).

Besides all these pros I've mentioned there is also the fact that the people are really friendly and not once have I felt as if some drunk a-hole is about to do something stupid.

I love South Africa but there are allot more things in SA that make me mad and stressed than here in Sweden, as for all the people who make assumptions, you will never really know how it is until you see it for yourself.

 

[hoegh]

Thanks for all the replies. Sorry to those who didn't get the point.

For the techies: Stockholm city centre runs fiber optic cables to all their surrounding municipalities within 30km, this system is called the stadsnet.

The ping time is always 1ms using an Ethernet cable but nobody uses Ethernet cables, virtually everybody uses a wireless home network.
The ping time with my 802.11g network is 2ms and a mere 22Mbit/s download rate.

When I'm downloading with my Ethernet cable and using bit Torrent I maintain a 5.5-7.5 Megabyte/second download rate, that is when I have enough downloads running and sufficient seeds.

As far as the county battle goes, Stockholm is a really cool city to live in, I come from Cape Town and the cape is a really hard one to beat.

Some FACTS about living in Sweden:
The crime rate is very low, you can walk through the city centre in the middle of the knight without worrying (plus you will notice that the streets are spotless).

The average amount of paid working days per year is 30 (SA=15)
The people here do not work themselves to death, they take time and do it properly.
I had to work my but off in SA and made half the salary.
People aren’t driven my money, they value quality of life as more important than earning a huge salary, there is no shame in being a house painter because there is no such thing as a poorly paid job.

The tax is high, but unlike in SA, you get it back what you put in and in a much more beneficial way though free schooling (from Pre-Primary until PhD university) free doctors (costs R150 for a check up or a heart transplant).

The average life expectancy is 81 (SA=41).

Besides all these pros I've mentioned there is also the fact that the people are really friendly and not once have I felt as if some drunk a-hole is about to do something stupid.

I love South Africa but there are allot more things in SA that make me mad and stressed than here in Sweden, as for all the people who make assumptions, you will never really know how it is until you see it for yourself.

Rugby World Champions 2007
Tri Nations Champions 2009
No. 1 Ranked Rugby nation in the world (yes, including Sweden)
Half decent cricket side
A football team that can play a bit when they feel like it and have a decent coach
The big five
Nelson Mandela

Ok, it would be nice to have public transport, free medical, free schooling but I had to make myself feel better about living here

 

[Rosaudio]

Sweden sound really nice. Im still trying to decide whether to move to London or another place in Europe after my studying.

Is it pretty English there, or do you have to know Swedish?

 

[Dan C]

My result from Speedtest.net
http://www.speedtest.net/result/632764244.png

Any chance you can do a speedtest to joburg... will be interesting to see.

 

[Strobemeister]

Sweden, Norway & Denmark are very similar imo, though they would hate me for saying it. The other Scandinavian country, Finland, is a bit different, peoplewise. All round and except for the weather, these are absolutely fantastic countries to live in, spent a lot of time over there. Everything just works. But the weather is a big issue, it's like living in a fridge sometimes.

 

[Swedish Saffer]

Sweden, Norway & Denmark are very similar imo, though they would hate me for saying it. The other Scandinavian country, Finland, is a bit different, peoplewise. All round and except for the weather, these are absolutely fantastic countries to live in, spent a lot of time over there. Everything just works. But the weather is a big issue, it's like living in a fridge sometimes.

What Strobemeistr says is true, the three countries are similar.
I took the X2000 train from Stockholm to Denmark (travels at 200km/h and leans over in the corners, similar to a South African taxi) and there are no borders or stops and it’s just the same with Norway you can drive straight in because the countries have such trust in each other.
The weather is cold but I have been far warmer in Stockholm with my triple layered windows and under floor heating than spending a wet winter in Cape Town.

Rosaudio, the Swedes speak better English than the Afrikaans people do back home, I know of some people that have been living in Sweden for 10 years and still do not speak any Swedish.
I am myself doing a Swedish class at the moment; I have a Swedish girlfriend and would like to speak more Swedish with her and her friends. Swedish is similar to Afrikaans and many words and the same or slightly different.


Here are the speed test results from Stockholm to South African servers.

Cape Town server speedtest.net
http://www.speedtest.net/result/635929557.png

Johannesburg server speedtest.net
http://www.speedtest.net/result/635931348.png

 

[J0n0]

Rosaudio, the Swedes speak better English than the Afrikaans people do back home, I know of some people that have been living in Sweden for 10 years and still do not speak any Swedish.
I am myself doing a Swedish class at the moment; I have a Swedish girlfriend and would like to speak more Swedish with her and her friends. Swedish is similar to Afrikaans and many words and the same or slightly different.

Are you saying ALL afrikaans people or just some? Because you seem to have forgotten the other languages namely xhosa, zulu, twsana...the list goes on.

I'm afrikaans and feel slightly offended by your statement. Especially seeing I have to spell check my english speaking managers emails before he sends them out. As well as having to actually convince people i am afrikaans when i tell them its my first language.

I'm not picking a fight, but watch your wording. It's not nice to stereotype or put all people in one class because you didnt know any well spoken afrikaans people.

Back on topic now. Yes, you are in a very blessed country that's very centralized compared to little South-Africa which is on the far end of the African continent. You are within a train ride (heck you could even drive), of some of the most powerful and developed countries in the world. We on the other hand border on the most poverished, underdeveloped countries and dont get me started on the politicians.

You see, everyone is comparing SA to all the other "oh so mighty" countries in every way, but they do not take into consideration the history. Apartheid being one of those drastic and major changes that have struck this country and kept it from developing in "sync" with other countries.

Our government made a mistake of giving Telkom exactly what they wanted (the government saw money because they would share profits). And after ten years, they still have an iron grip and won't let go.

Basically what im saying is, before comparing other well located countries to the very isolated South Africa, take ALL the factors into mind. Yes they are leagues ahead, but they have had advantages.

I love the country I live in, I will not attack those who leave because they want to have a better life. But I will defend my country against those who left and belittle the place they left behind. I was born here, I grew up here, and have family, friends and a history here. The thought of leaving pains me, but if the day comes, I will leave. But, I will NEVER compare my new home to what I have had and I will NEVER make this country out to be a bad place to anyone who wants to know about it.

Sorry about the essay. But I love my little South-Africa.

 

[Dan C]

Thanks... interesting that you only get 3.99... actually not sure what that means.. are we restricted to those speeds on international ?

 

[J0n0]

Thanks... interesting that you only get 3.99... actually not sure what that means.. are we restricted to those speeds on international ?

Just had a look at his tests to see what you mean. That is quite interesting. His latency is in the 200 range as well. Must be restrictions on our side.

 

[SecretCode]

Swedish Saffer, what does a ping test look like from your side? There doesn't seem to be pingtest server in Stockholm but from here to Oslo shows 379ms:

 

[LancelotSA]

The average life expectancy is 81 (SA=41).

I could go through your whole post and respond but I am not in the mood to help someone convince themselves that they made the right move. Just as regards this comment. That is naturally the average life expectancy for the entire population. This figure is dramatically affected by those who die under the age of 18 as a result of HIV/AIDS.

The life expectancy of someone with my education, earnings and social standing is in excess of 75 years. And if you would like to argue with that please feel free to do so with the actuaries at the large insurance companies who spend their lives calculating these things to ensure profit.

PS And yes, I have stayed in Sweden myself for a period of six months (near Slussen station in Stockholm)

 

[saffakanera]

Thanks for all the replies. Sorry to those who didn't get the point.

For the techies: Stockholm city centre runs fiber optic cables to all their surrounding municipalities within 30km, this system is called the stadsnet.

The ping time is always 1ms using an Ethernet cable but nobody uses Ethernet cables, virtually everybody uses a wireless home network.
The ping time with my 802.11g network is 2ms and a mere 22Mbit/s download rate.

When I'm downloading with my Ethernet cable and using bit Torrent I maintain a 5.5-7.5 Megabyte/second download rate, that is when I have enough downloads running and sufficient seeds.

As far as the county battle goes, Stockholm is a really cool city to live in, I come from Cape Town and the cape is a really hard one to beat.

Some FACTS about living in Sweden:
The crime rate is very low, you can walk through the city centre in the middle of the knight without worrying (plus you will notice that the streets are spotless).

The average amount of paid working days per year is 30 (SA=15)
The people here do not work themselves to death, they take time and do it properly.
I had to work my but off in SA and made half the salary.
People aren’t driven my money, they value quality of life as more important than earning a huge salary, there is no shame in being a house painter because there is no such thing as a poorly paid job.

The tax is high, but unlike in SA, you get it back what you put in and in a much more beneficial way though free schooling (from Pre-Primary until PhD university) free doctors (costs R150 for a check up or a heart transplant).

The average life expectancy is 81 (SA=41).

Besides all these pros I've mentioned there is also the fact that the people are really friendly and not once have I felt as if some drunk a-hole is about to do something stupid.

I love South Africa but there are allot more things in SA that make me mad and stressed than here in Sweden, as for all the people who make assumptions, you will never really know how it is until you see it for yourself.

You must be a first class SA citizen though, I cant imagine an MCSE getting even CLOSE to Sweden's borders man.

Face it, you are a higher valued human than the rest of us.

 

[LancelotSA]

Face it, you are a higher valued human than the rest of us.

Speak for yourself! I know you will find it impossible to believe but some of us actually CHOOSE not to leave.

 

[vernonh]

LOL - I got the same comment from a mate in States when I mention I just got 384uncapped Screamer account... He mentioned he running at 40MB Uncapped Cable line.... A little different..... I also wonder if we will get there..... Imagine Streaming HD Video Content Real time..... :}}