Can you share some advice? Legacy hardware and software..

[|tera|]

I usually won't post a thread like this, but I need some tips and advice.

Situation: I have a friend with a Win98SE Desktop, Athlon 1.1Ghz and 128mb DDR, 20GB harddrive, Riva TNT2 AGP card.

This thing is driving me up the wall to be honest. I can "not" format it since it contains software on it worth a couple of grand and to top it off, they don't have the discs etc.

I've used the August2007 Windows 98 Autopatcher files (which is a complete version) and after a lot of struggling, everything was installed including all hotifxes and updates etc.

Main reason I decided to do that, is that it gave errors, Illegal Operation, VXD(driver) and Protection Errors.

I've removed the NIC and Modem to narrow things down, took 2 DDR 128MB sticks from I pc I have (I know they work) and removed his DDR stick (since I "sense" the ram is buggered).

Now,

After updating and doing everything, it still gave some errors. Usually Windows 98 hates me regardless of what I do on it, so I downloaded the new Via 4 in 1 drivers and installed it (the chipset is kt266A), according to via, it works on 98SE (latest), but some users find the older versions more inline.

Now, whenever I restart the pc it shows viagart.vxd found in System.ini or registry (it's not in system.ini, I checked).

So I decided again to remove the Via drivers, because in one of the ten's of directories on the C: drive, I found an old Via package (4 in 1) that I didn't see before installing it.

Last problem. The pc doesn't want to boot at the moment oops.... I saw the AGP card was "flickering" the display, so I switched the pc off and "pressed" it to see if it was fitted correctly, it moved in (I didn't push hard) about half a centimeter.


So why am I posting this?

Basically to ask some of you familiar with situations like this, what else I could check for.

I spent about 2.5 hours on it tonight and it's staring at me, but I'll tackle it again tomorrow.

Btw. I'm thinking of selling the two DDR 128MB sticks to my friend, it's 333mhz, but the Mobo only supports 266 (so it scales itself down).

I got the sticks for free from a friend, but I've been using it in a desktop I have here (which has 1GB already). What can I ask for it? I'm not giving it away for free, we're friends, but not that close



tera

 

[sn3rd]

I wouldn't pay money for it, but your friend might if it saves him a few grand in the long run (if RAM really is a problem, then he would need to upgrade his PC which would almost require a format, so he would lose his program).

Try take an old hard drive if you have one spare, and install a fresh operating system on it using his PC to see how it runs. That should help you figure out once and for all if the problem lies in hardware or software. If software, you're going to be doing some low-level hacking to get it to work properly. I won't lie... It'll be ugly...

 

[|tera|]

Cool beans.

I think tomorrow I will just remove the AGP card and reseat it properly. I'll also reinstall the 4in1 chipset drivers (should sort the .vxd error) and then I'll see what I can do.

Maybe running a system file check isn't a bad idea either.

If that fails, I'll have to find an extra hard drive to test a clean installation

cheers.

 

[Ghost02]

I also think the clean installation is a good idea. Good luck

 

[mh348]

Maybe try upgrading to Windows Fundamentals for Legacy PC's it looks & works like xp but its made for older pc's.

or If you plan on upgrading you can try Laplink PCMover to transfer the software to the new PC.

 

[|tera|]

Maybe try upgrading to Windows Fundamentals for Legacy PC's it looks & works like xp but its made for older pc's.

or If you plan on upgrading you can try Laplink PCMover to transfer the software to the new PC.

I ran XP fine a few years back on a similar system, it had SDram not DDR, so this one is faster.

Is laplink pcmover freeware? If it is, could you give me a link where to get it.

I'm not even sure "where" this software is I'm not supposed to remove, I see Pastel on it and if Pastel asked this guy a few grand for that piece of rubbish, then I feel sorry for him

Is Windows Fundamentals available here?

 

[TheRift]

I do not envy you right now. I'm forever in this situation. Fixing people's old machines that they will not upgrade. Or fixing people's PCs that they got a "good deal" on from someone they knew.

I think the software on there is surely not worth a few grand... usually paying for software means cherishing the install disks.

If you can, upgrade that thing to win2k. My previous PC which did a good 5 years of duty developed some dodgey hardware issues (someone removing my drive and not plugging it back in correctly saw me getting a separate IDE controller ) would just not boot on 95/98 or XP. Going to Win2K made it surprisingly stable ... something to do with lack of any form of drivers. And it'll run fine on that Athlon. Mine was an old IBM 6x86 @ 400MHZ.

 

[Arthur]

If the software's really worth a few grand then your friend won't mind spending more money to do the following:
1) Get a new PC - R5-6k
2) Install VMware or MS Virtual PC - free
3) Image the old PC's disk with something like Acronis True Image Echo Workstation with Universal Restore ($110 for both) and restoring the image to a virtual machine (or click 'convert backup image to vmdk/vhd format'); there are also other tools, but Acronis works well
4) run his old Win98 machine as a virual machine in his new PC

 

[Asha'man X]

If the software's really worth a few grand then your friend won't mind spending more money to do the following:
1) Get a new PC - R5-6k
2) Install VMware or MS Virtual PC - free
3) Image the old PC's disk with something like Acronis True Image Echo Workstation with Universal Restore ($110 for both) and restoring the image to a virtual machine (or click 'convert backup image to vmdk/vhd format'); there are also other tools, but Acronis works well
4) run his old Win98 machine as a virual machine in his new PC

^^ Sounds like a very good idea. Honestly, I know that some people won't change their computers, but to run Windows 98 10 years later on is madness. Also, that Pastel software must be very old, as Pastel software hasn't run on Windows 98 for a good few years now. Drivers for Windows 98 were always flaky at best. There is just no stability in the OS.

The system is capable of running Xp, and it will run ok. Will be a bit sluggish because of the limited ram, but if you sell the extra ram to him, it should be fine.

If you cannot use XP, I will send you virtual headache tablets to help you try to stay sane while working with Win98.

Good luck!

 

[|tera|]

No offense Arthur, but your solution is a tad overkill in my opinion

If it's Win98 with a confused head, it's still going to perform badly and with many errors on a virtual machine.

Like I said as well, I'm not sure if the software he's talking about is pastel, I'll have to find out.

I'll tackle it a bit later and report back

 

[|tera|]

I took the AGP card out to reseat it. I looked at the fan and tried to spin it, the fins broke off lol, it's really brittle, but it seemed stuck. I unscrewed it from the card and saw it was "melted" tight.

That's one problem, sent the guy to find out if he can get a working AGP or PCI display card.

AGP slot "looks" okay, but I'll only be able to know once the new card comes.



I was stupid as well, I didn't do a registry backup after applying Autopatcher, dumb tera, dumb

 

[killadoob]

all software can be replaced for basically nothing but a few gigs of bandwidth

 

[sn3rd]

I took the AGP card out to reseat it. I looked at the fan and tried to spin it, the fins broke off lol, it's really brittle, but it seemed stuck. I unscrewed it from the card and saw it was "melted" tight.

That's one problem, sent the guy to find out if he can get a working AGP or PCI display card.

AGP slot "looks" okay, but I'll only be able to know once the new card comes.



I was stupid as well, I didn't do a registry backup after applying Autopatcher, dumb tera, dumb

 

[mh348]

I ran XP fine a few years back on a similar system, it had SDram not DDR, so this one is faster.

Is laplink pcmover freeware? If it is, could you give me a link where to get it.

I'm not even sure "where" this software is I'm not supposed to remove, I see Pastel on it and if Pastel asked this guy a few grand for that piece of rubbish, then I feel sorry for him

Is Windows Fundamentals available here?

Hi

No, Laplink pcmover is not freeware, & Windows Fundamentals is not available as a retail package, I think it only available to MS Action-pack subscribers or business clients.

See Killadoob's suggestions above on how to get it.

 

[howardb]

This may not be relevant, but I see many people dissing those that still use older operating systems like Win95/98 (and earlier) - whenever I advise my clients on upgrades and the like, the very first question I ask them is "What do you want to run on the system?", the second questions is "What can you realistically afford?" and the last question is "What upgradeability do you require?"

I know many people that only use their PC's for internet and e-mail (the basics), or family-owned businesses that still run Pastel version 1, so a top-of-the-range-latest-hardware-release-PC-system is probably a waste of hard earned cash. One example of this is my father-in-law -- he has run his family business for the past 40+ years, and is still using 4 old networked 386 PC's running "Pastel v1 J" (installation from a single stiffy disk) -- they are archaic, but do the required job, and he needs nothing else... 3 years ago, the bank they are with introduced corporate online banking, and he had to shell out for a new PC that could handle their over-bloated software package - again, unnecessary, but now all he needs...

It may be great to constantly upgrade to the latest and greatest, but many forget that not everyone is blessed with a cash surplus these days, and there is nothing wrong with having an old P3 or Celeron system runnning Win95/98... I have one that still runs perfectly as a dedicated word-processor.

...if it's all you need, then good on you!

 

[mh348]

I think it would be better to buy a new system, just a basic celeron 1.8, 80gb hdd, 512MB ram & win xp. it will cost around R2000 or less, so I don't see why people stick with old systems. What happens when you require a replacement part and it's no longer being manufactured, or prices on the older parts are more expensive, take sd ram for example, a 128mb/256mb stick can cost around R400 to R500 and its hard to find. Where's on a newer system you can get a gig of ram for about R200, so in the long run it would be cheaper to replace the system.

 

[|tera|]

I lie not

I've never seen anything like it, it's brittle brittle brittle

This may not be relevant, but I see many people dissing those that still use older operating systems like Win95/98 (and earlier) - whenever I advise my clients on upgrades and the like, the very first question I ask them is "What do you want to run on the system?", the second questions is "What can you realistically afford?" and the last question is "What upgradeability do you require?"

I know many people that only use their PC's for internet and e-mail (the basics), or family-owned businesses that still run Pastel version 1, so a top-of-the-range-latest-hardware-release-PC-system is probably a waste of hard earned cash. One example of this is my father-in-law -- he has run his family business for the past 40+ years, and is still using 4 old networked 386 PC's running "Pastel v1 J" (installation from a single stiffy disk) -- they are archaic, but do the required job, and he needs nothing else... 3 years ago, the bank they are with introduced corporate online banking, and he had to shell out for a new PC that could handle their over-bloated software package - again, unnecessary, but now all he needs...

It may be great to constantly upgrade to the latest and greatest, but many forget that not everyone is blessed with a cash surplus these days, and there is nothing wrong with having an old P3 or Celeron system runnning Win95/98... I have one that still runs perfectly as a dedicated word-processor.

...if it's all you need, then good on you!

I'm not against people who use old operating systems, but unlike the people you know, I know very different people. People who expect to play Farcry on a Riva TNT, or people who expect the pc to be a "music device" with a 10GB harddrive.

All these people I know can't comprehend that they need to shell out to get better hardware. I've tried explaining nicely, I've heard what about "for free?" as if I'm going to pay to give them new hardware, I can't even afford decent smokes

I long for the day when I can meet someone like your dad who is "okay" with what he has, but alas, I have not

 

[howardb]

I'm not against people who use old operating systems, but unlike the people you know, I know very different people. People who expect to play Farcry on a Riva TNT, or people who expect the pc to be a "music device" with a 10GB harddrive.

All these people I know can't comprehend that they need to shell out to get better hardware. I've tried explaining nicely, I've heard what about "for free?" as if I'm going to pay to give them new hardware, I can't even afford decent smokes

I long for the day when I can meet someone like your dad who is "okay" with what he has, but alas, I have not

LOL

...I wish I knew more people who wanted to shell out for the latest hardware

Cheers!

 

[Asha'man X]

Wow, I have never seen fins of a fan fall off due to being so brittle. I've broken a few, and seen someone break them in a really odd way, but they've never just borken due to old age.

Concerning old computers and buying new ones, I think part of the thing is that some people have more patience than others. If a person is happy to wait for slow boot ups and slow reactions, then yes, there's no need to change provided it works. My parents' church was like that. However, when the power supply and motherboard gave out, there was no way to fix and replace, so I had to build them a new basic office machine.
mh348 said it best I think, so I'll leave it there

 

[|tera|]

I got a few steps further today We've found an AGP card for R150, will get it tomorrow. I told the guy to get a new harddrive as well, as the 20GB just won't cut it.

After I explained that a harddrive is generally warranted for 3 years and many fail in that time, I showed him that the 20GB was older than 7 years so that's a plus.

I'll install Xp pro for him on the new harddrive and I also told him that Pastel Partner which is on the Win98 machine, isn't nearly as expensive as he told me, so he was lied to, he can get a newer version for Xp for near R1k to R1.5k fully licensed.



Seems everything will be sorted shortly. Thanks for all the tips and advice